In reply to Chris_V :
I think there's a difference between a general "hatred over continued success", and being skeptical of an organization with a known track record of misdeeds excelling in a league designed for parity. They're good. But there are valid question marks on their record, so lots of people infer that at least some of their success has come as a result of less than scrupulous actions.
But the "us against them" mentality that results from that has been profitable for everybody involved really.
Furious_E said:
Doug Pederson needs a statue of his massive brass balls in front of the stadium, fearless play calling last night against Belichik and the Pats, but that's what he's done all season long. Calling a pass to Foles on 4th and goal though? That was ridiculous.
It was only going to work once. He's probably been sitting on that play all season. The symmetry between that and the attempted pass to Brady was a little too good to be accidental.
I figure that when you're playing the Patriots you have to get as many points on the board before halftime as you can, because Belichick is going to figure you out and take you apart. Then it's just a race to see if you can get to the end of the game before you run out of your stash of points.
Keith Tanner said:
Furious_E said:
Doug Pederson needs a statue of his massive brass balls in front of the stadium, fearless play calling last night against Belichik and the Pats, but that's what he's done all season long. Calling a pass to Foles on 4th and goal though? That was ridiculous.
It was only going to work once. He's probably been sitting on that play all season. The symmetry between that and the attempted pass to Brady was a little too good to be accidental.
I figure that when you're playing the Patriots you have to get as many points on the board before halftime as you can, because Belichick is going to figure you out and take you apart. Then it's just a race to see if you can get to the end of the game before you run out of your stash of points.
Read today that they saw the Bears do it successfully against the Vikings when watching tape on Minnesota leading up to the conference championship game. They liked the play design, but figured Minnesota would sniff it out if they tried to pull it off against them again, so they saved it for New England. Or so the story goes. On the other side, New England actually ran that play successfully against the Eagles when they last played in 2015, so i'm guessing thats how it ended up in their game plan. Just funny, if you believe the above, that both coaches would plan that one completely independently from each other.
Pederson has been extremely aggressive all year in his play calling and I believe lead the league in both 4th down and 2 point attempts handily. Was glad to see him stick with that mentality all the way to the finish last night, the Pats are too good at scoring points to let up. I think you see good teams lose to them by going conservative more often than any other reason.
STM317 said:
In reply to Chris_V :
I think there's a difference between a general "hatred over continued success", and being skeptical of an organization with a known track record of misdeeds excelling in a league designed for parity. They're good. But there are valid question marks on their record, so lots of people infer that at least some of their success has come as a result of less than scrupulous actions.
But the "us against them" mentality that results from that has been profitable for everybody involved really.
Well that and several of the highest profile names on the Patriots are just massively unlikeable.
The people that hate the Patriots are lucky, it helps keep their mind off their local teams performance 
I was disappointed to see the Pats lose, but the Eagles played a better game and deserved to win. It’s very similar to Brady’s first Super Bowl, coming in late in the season as the backup to lead the team to victory.
I have no sympathy for the haters, they can complain all they want. I suffered through the 70s, 80s, and 90s watching the Patriots and Redsox tease us with brief periods of potential greatness followed by greater disappointments. Back when MTV played music videos we endured the super bowl shuffle and watched Bill Buckner screw up a play a little leaguer could have made.
If the Patriots weren’t as good as they are, no one would care what they did, but now it’s used as an excuse for why they were outplayed on the field (but not last night). I don’t think anyone would even notice if the Browns were accused of filming other teams, or deflating footballs.
That was a hell of a Super Bowl. Congrats to the Eagles and their fans for finally winning one.
As a Pats fan, it's disappointing to see them lose, especially when Brady at FORTY YEARS OLD had the game of his life with over 500 passing yards and three TD's. This game shouldn't diminish anything from his legacy; he helped them score enough points to win, and was playing without two of his best weapons. This isn't on him or the offense.
This one is on the terrible, awful, E36 M3 defense.
Truth be told, that defense was suspect all year long, and it was entirely believable that this would happen. They were never a dominant defense, and they had zero pass rush. To win this game, they needed pressure on Foles, and they didn't even try. And sitting Malcom Butler is just about unforgivable in my book. That guy single handedly won them a Super Bowl a few years ago, and he was the best tackler in that secondary, and surely would have made one or two crucial stops. But Big Ego Bill got involved and the rest is history. Yeah, I get it: he may have screwed up during the week. But reports are saying they were minor offenses, and they have let other players who have done much worse get off with zero punishment in big games (see Chandler Jones: starting a playoff game after showing up half naked to a police station hallucinating after smoking too much synthetic weed), so it's a dumb decision. Any other coach in the league would be fired for this. I think he's not only lost his touch, but lost the team going forward.
NPR was talking with some odds maker on the way home last night. The subject of trading Nick Foles for a second round draft pick was thrown around. Man I'd be pissed if I were him and heard that. I know the NFL is a business but damn that's vicious, especially when your star QB is out with a knee injury still.
Ian F
MegaDork
2/6/18 9:18 a.m.
In reply to The0retical :
I doubt Foles is surprised by any of it. Despite everything, the Eagles are still Wentz's team. I would imagine when things settle down Foles will have a discussion with the team to determine his future and if he wants to continue as the Eagles back-up or be traded for another chance at a full-time starting position. My guess is it'll also depend a lot on what teams offer for him. One issue is he is more of a traditional pocket quarterback and a lot of teams aren't built around that sort of scheme these days.
In reply to The0retical :
Counterpoint: You're the Superbowl MVP and now the team expects you to go back to holding a clip board on the sidelines? Wouldn't you rather have an opportunity to start somewhere and resurrect your career? Odd situation for the Eagles, Wentz is still undoubtedly the franchise quarterback for the next 10+ years, but what do you do with the guy who just quarterbacked your team to its first Lombardi trophy? Trading Foles is potentially a win-win for him and the team.
Whatever happens, I don't think a decision will be made without consideration for Foles's desires, he's certainly earned that right and knowing the way this front office operates I think they'll do what's fair for him. If he would rather have the opportunity to start somewhere, I think they would let him know what they need to get in trade compensation and allow him to seek a deal with a team of his choosing. Since he's basically only under contract through next year anyways, he would have to be ready to do a longer term deal if another team is going to give up assets to acquire him. If he's content to remain in Philly as the backup, then I think the team would be fine with that too.
Regardless of where he ends up going forwards, Foles has earned legend status in Philly sports history and he'll never have to buy his own drink in the city again.
Hmm, the Broncos need a QB. We'll take him.
Foles' salary for the 2018 season is something like $4 mil, and then he's a free agent. No team is going to give up anything of significant value for a guy with just 1 year left under contract, so if he's traded to another team, it would likely come with a contract that pays him an average of $15mil-25mil per year which is the going rate for average or better starting QBs. I think he'd be fine with that.
What Foles accomplished is nothing short of amazing. If the Eagles' front office doesn't recognize that and fall at his feet and give him what he wants, they're a bunch of half-wit morons. Wentz? Who's that? Foles is your new starter. Quarterbacks who possess the right stuff to win Superb Owls don't grow on trees.
Ian F
MegaDork
2/6/18 12:39 p.m.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
Yes and no... Eli Manning's entire career with the Giants is based on that line of thinking. But let's face it - sometimes the guy looks like a 3rd string QB. Occasionally the stars just align for you. In Eli's case - twice.
In reply to Ian F :
Point taken with Eli. No getting around that one! 
D2W
HalfDork
2/6/18 6:53 p.m.
Foles is a mediocre quarterback who got the chance to play on an incredible team. Frankly the same a Case Keenum and Blake Bortles. He has had his chance multiple times with other teams and hasn't gotten the job done or he would have already been paid by somebody. Wentz's ceiling is much higher. It would be in Phillys best interest to keep Foles until they know Wentz is 100%, but if somebody comes calling with the right offer who knows.
Keenum's going to get paid by somebody this year. If it is not Minnesota it will be interesting to see how well he does next year.
What I find more incredible than anything that happened in the game is the fact that a Philly fan thought the best way to celebrate the win was to pick up fresh horse manure off of the street with his mouth.
I think Eli - or Flacco for that matter - is a good analogy for Foles. Generally he's been pretty mediocre, but don't forget he put together that phenomenal 27 TD 2 INT season in 2013, and also tied the single game passing TD record. His two mediocre seasons as a starter came in 2014 and 2015 under Chip Kelly and Jeff Fisher, respectively, so its perfectly fair to debate how much coaching may have played into his performance. I think Keenum has definitely earned himself a nice paycheck, wherever that may be, but there's a point to be argued that Foles has higher upside.
But Wentz is unquestionably the starter going forward in Philly, and it's really not even a debate. Wentz is the complete package, he has the arm, the athleticism, size, smarts, work ethic, he's everything you could ask for in a qb. He'll recover from the ACL just fine, it's not the death sentence to a career that injury was 20 years ago.
In other news, looks like McDaniels is staying in New England after all.
I liked the Dodge Ram commercial with the Vikings.
Furious_E said:
In other news, looks like McDaniels is staying in New England after all.
I love it. Shows that you can't trust a Patriot (those present excluded of course) and as a Jags fan it hurts a conference rival.
Many mediocre quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl if you think about it. Jeff Hostleter, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Nick Foles. See Cleveland, there is hope.
Continue to stack that defense and pick up a few playmakers...and a coach
We'll see what Todd Haley can do at OC.
