gamby wrote: jwdmotorsports wrote: My wife and I drive car that are good on gas (civic: 38mpg and echo: 35mpg) but having just had our first kid we are finding out real fast that the Echo is kind of small to carry all the kid stuff (the stroller fills the trunk).
How come there isn't a more compact stroller out there? I remember those umbrella strollers from back in the day that barely took up any space.
I'm guessing that if Europeans drive smaller cars, they probably have smaller strollers, too. Otherwise, I have a billion dollar idea. 
They still make the umbrella strollers but the kid needs to be a little bigger to ride in one. We have the stroller that you can sit the car seat on right now.
The Europeans stopped having kids. There's a story about it somewhere, the guy who wrote it is going to some prison in Canada.
(Are there prisons in Canada? I can't picture a canadian prison. Maybe you have to listen to Anne Murray's greatest hits all day or something)
Wally wrote: The Europeans stopped having kids. There's a story about it somewhere, the guy who wrote it is going to some prison in Canada.
(Are there prisons in Canada? I can't picture a canadian prison. Maybe you have to listen to Anne Murray's greatest hits all day or something)
Yeah, Anne Murray and Gordon Lightfoot!
That is tcalled the Canadian Death Penalty. If you can survive it for seven minutes you are pardoned. VERY few pardons in Canada.
but i like wreck of the edmund fitzgerald
As for Europe, while I cant find any thing right now to back this up, more people are coming into Europe over boarders rather than out of birth canals.
Chris_V
SuperDork
6/13/08 7:58 a.m.
Jake wrote: Wife has a 2002 Montero Sport. To my ongoing amazement/consternation, it's been a good car. Gas mileage? Somewhere between awful and sucky. But it's within a couple checks of being paid for. Not having a car note will pay for a lot of gas, and the thing's not near worn out. I think we'll probably have it for YEARS past when SUVs become completely passe.
I have the BMW and an old Range Rover to do truck duties. It's also paid for, and is comfortable for a truck. This past week the BMW has been down (decided to start leaking PS fluid bad, and I haven't been able to get to it) so my wife and I have been commuting in the Rangie. This week, for the commute, we've used up a quarter tank of gas. That's 4 gallons. @$4/gallon, that's $16 to commute for the two of us for the week. That's not enough money to hurt us.
So if someone sees up this week on the commute, they may assume we're paying out the ass to drive, but we're simply not.
neon4891 wrote: but i like wreck of the edmund fitzgerald
As for Europe, while I cant find any thing right now to back this up, more people are coming into Europe over boarders rather than out of birth canals.
Here's an interesting article about it as long as your not in Canada,where it is a criminal act of hate speech. http://www.macleans.ca/culture/books/article.jsp?content=20061023_134898_134898
"Stephanie Torgerson, 32, of Pataskala, Ohio, said she simply can't put her three boys in her husband's Mazda 626. The 1-year-old needs a car seat, the 5-year-old needs a booster chair and she doesn't feel comfortable wedging her 8-year-old between the two.
Sure, she could probably get better mileage in a minivan, but she doesn't like the stigma.
"I don't want to be labeled as a soccer mom," she said."
Do you think this country will ever get past that stupid stigma thing?
Per Schroeder
Technical Editor/Advertising Director
6/13/08 9:50 a.m.
We've got 4 cars in our driveway:
Saab: mileage not really that important, but somewhere in the high 20s on the highway and about 12 on stage.
Neon: Currently an automatic, so it gets mid 20s around town, should get better with transmission conversion. I'm hoping to see high 30s on the highway with the economy transmission, etc.
MCS: gets 30-36mpg.
Nissan Xterra: 20 highway, 12 towing and 15-16 around town. Now it gets most of its mileage towing the Saab to events (half of its mileage so far was towing to 3 rallies). Yet I still feel this "Grassroots Guilty" about owning it. Weird.
Chris_V
SuperDork
6/13/08 10:28 a.m.
jstein77 wrote:
Do you think this country will ever get past that stupid stigma thing?
Seriously, it's not just this country.
A few of my thoughts regarding this section of the originally posted article:
"I've got several of these things that I've been pouring liquid gold in the tank of," said Mark Antley, 47, of Sharpsburg, Georgia.
The computer and technology contractor used to drive his 1999 Suburban from Sharpsburg through Atlanta to the northern suburb of Alpharetta. The 145-mile roundtrip to work put a dent in his 45-gallon gas tank.
Making matters more costly were his wife's car -- another '99 Suburban -- and his diesel 2002 Ford F250 pickup.
So, I'm reading between the lines here, since I don't know this guy or his situation. But in essence, he's using one Suburban with its enormous hauling capacity and passenger space for at least 5 as a single person commuter vehicle on a daily 145 mile round trip! This guy is a computer guy, not a construction contractor. He does not need a vehicle like this for that kind of driving.
And then we have his wife, who is apparently doing exactly the same thing with another identical vehicle, albeit without the same lengthy commute.
Then, for some reason, he has another big-ass cargo hauling vehicle, namely the pickup. Does he seriously need all this hauling capacity?
I've got four vehicles, and all of them are four-bangers except the Suburban, which is strictly for cargo hauling. The thing doesn't leave the driveway unless it's pulling the race car or it's loaded down with something that won't fit in any other car. This isn't any sort of new behaviour for me. I'm not claiming to be any kind of genius, I've just never seen the point of driving around a gas guzzler when there are more economical ways of getting somewhere.
I just wonder how long people have just been blindly and stupidly pissing away gasoline supplies driving vehicles like this. And unfortunately I think things are going to need to get a lot worse before most people will start driving vehicles that are a little more appropriate to the task at hand.
BTW, I'm certainly no enviro-Nazi, I just think there's a whole lot of stupid going on when I read articles like that. 
like the rest of you I laugh at the way things are today.
I'm also a realist. My subie is currently getting 20mpg and I'm filling it roughly 2x a week if business is good. My wifes mini-van (hardly mini, as it seats 8 + room for a stroller and groceries) gets 17-18mpg around town with 30 on the highway being doable.
To me an SUV is a waste in 9 out of 10 cases as ANYTHING it can do a minivan can do better EXCEPT go offroad.
a couple of years ago we had a yukon as a rental car. It got 11 mpg held all my kids (3 of them 2 in booster seats) but had no room in the back for a stroller or groceries,
our national poor MPG comes from our poor driving habits. we race from a light, we race down the highway. if we slowed down a bunch (and stayed to the right) we could easily improve our national MPG by 25%.
I'm also a fan of owning multiple cars for different uses. that's why we have a minivan and a car, and will probably have at least 1 more car in the near future.
I talk to people every now and then who won't trade in their 1 person gas guzzler because they'll lose money. I almost always answer "buy a beater and park the guzzler" you don't lose the money then and if done right you come out ahead (beater = sub $2k in my conversation. in my opinion beater = sub $1k these days)
I have multiple vehicles so dont let my wife see me make this point, But-having more vehicles means more insurance and more registration. It also means depreciation of more than one vehicle. I would like to see someone actually do the math honestly comparing a 1 multicapable all around vehicle per driver scenario to having the minimum size needed for dailys and a big tow vehicle.
I would like to see someone actually do the math honestly comparing a 1 multicapable all around vehicle per driver scenario to having the minimum size needed for dailys and a big tow vehicle.
When you're talking to a bunch of gearheads, "multicapable" translates into "vehicle that does lots of things not-sucky but not-great" so I don't know how honest it could be. ;) Also, minimum for daily usage could be a bicycle, motorcycle, wagon, or minivan depending on the crew you're dealing with...too many variables, you just need to run the numbers for yourself.
Bryce
Just out of curiosity, how does thhe exspanding "crossover" segment fit into this?
Being they are mostly car and mini van based.
editWally, I read that article, does that mean trailer park spawn will over run suburbia, I wont go deaper into it, as bad things happen when I get political
gamby
SuperDork
6/16/08 10:40 p.m.
jstein77 wrote: "Stephanie Torgerson, 32, of Pataskala, Ohio, said she simply can't put her three boys in her husband's Mazda 626. The 1-year-old needs a car seat, the 5-year-old needs a booster chair and she doesn't feel comfortable wedging her 8-year-old between the two.
Sure, she could probably get better mileage in a minivan, but she doesn't like the stigma.
"I don't want to be labeled as a soccer mom," she said."
Do you think this country will ever get past that stupid stigma thing?
So what exactly does she think people will label her as when she's unloading her brood from an SUV??? As if whatever she drives won't be a yogurt-covered sh*thole of an interior. 
^^maybe(she thinks) it impresses people that she can afford to fill the tank
just an idea
B02S4
Reader
6/16/08 11:32 p.m.
Call me a contrarian, but IMO it's a great time to buy a used SUV...
Salanis
HalfDork
6/17/08 10:42 a.m.
MrJoshua wrote: Yeah, but if an SUV and a Minivan go into the drink, I bet the van floats better.
Yeah, but not as well as a Toyota Hilux.
