Don't do it. People who don't know you and have no real vested interest in your well being might think less of you. 
That's the best I have.
Don't do it. People who don't know you and have no real vested interest in your well being might think less of you.
That's the best I have.
Jav: I don't think so. There was a manual transmission 06 Mazda5 recently locally with 130k miles that was not selling at $5500.
In 3 years, I will have a 10 year old small van with a manual transmission with more than 100k miles, and no options. And while it's clean now, I don't think it will be rust-, dent- and scratch-free in 3 years.
Here's the formula I'm using for cost of ownership, to give more insight:
Mazda5: $5750 in gas, $2000 in maintenance and wear items, plus $9000 lost because I'm not selling it now, minus $5000 gained by being able to sell in 3 years (essentially $4000 depreciation) $11,760
Leaf: All payments total $9164, maintenance = $0, Charging station $1000, Electric costs $1260, $0 gained by not being able to sell in 3 years. $11,424
Prius V: All payments total $12,780, maintenance = $0, fuel costs = $2880. $15,660
For the above, I assumed $4 a gallon in gas, 36,000 miles, 25mpg Mazda5, 50mpg Prius, 3.5 cents a mile for the Leaf. $2000 in maintenance seemed a reasonable number for the Mazda5.
Javelin wrote:bastomatic wrote:The difference being that at the end of 3 years, you either own a Mazda5, or have a Leaf you have to give back. Just saying...Keep in mind that the $20K-$30K you'd spend on a Leaf will buy like 150K miles' worth of gas in the 25 mpg Mazda 5.My spreadsheet says total cost of a 3 year lease of a Leaf is about $11,500, including charging. The same 3 years of owning my Mazda5, including gas, estimated maintenance, and depreciation, should cost me about $11,700, so it's pretty much a wash.
I did the same calculation with the same van as well as the actual repair/gas/fuel/purchase prices for the PT Cruiser as well as the reasonable sale price and it came out much closer than you would expect.
So, for that same price, I get a vehicle that I don't have to poke at and prod at to make sure it wasn't wrecked/flooded/salvaged and spend all that time to buy a used vehicle that may have a catastrophic failure not covered under warranty (See my old Volvo, the Freestyle) that only has marginal utility over the Leaf (we already have a minivan) plus now I am somewhat immune to a catastrophic increase in the price of fuel.
In reply to bastomatic:
Sounds like exactly the same result as I had.
Damn. I stand corrected, that's crazy. It still seems silly to "throw away" so much money for a lease, but you really throw away that amount for gas.
I have to talk SWMBO into leasing one, this is nuts.
In reply to Javelin:
These numbers are crazy only because the government and Nissan heavily subsidize these leases. I predict the lease numbers should become substantially worse as more used Leafs come on the market off lease, and Nissan has to adjust for how poor the resale value is.
Also note that the numbers I used are based on the Nissan Leaf S deal which is open to everyone and posted online. Others have gotten substantially better deals leasing the Leaf, especially through VPP.
bastomatic wrote: In reply to Javelin: These numbers are crazy only because the government and Nissan heavily subsidize these leases. I predict the lease numbers should become substantially worse as more used Leafs come on the market off lease, and Nissan has to adjust for how poor the resale value is. Also note that the numbers I used are based on the Nissan Leaf S deal which is open to everyone and posted online. Others have gotten substantially better deals leasing the Leaf, especially through VPP.
Yes - exactly this.
bastomatic wrote: Mazda5: $5750 in gas, $2000 in maintenance and wear items, plus $9000 lost because I'm not selling it now, minus $5000 gained by being able to sell in 3 years (essentially $4000 depreciation) $11,760 Leaf: All payments total $9164, maintenance = $0, Charging station $1000, Electric costs $1260, $0 gained by not being able to sell in 3 years. $11,424
Like tuna55 and others, I did the math over and over and over. The no maintenance and no fuel make up a huge chunk of the cost of the car. Plus it's nice to not have to worry about anything on the car...and have some bells/whistles. I think you're also overestimating some numbers on the Leaf. How much do you pay for electricity? I pay $.0879/kwh. According to the car, it used $14.78 in electricity for the month of August. No way to tell for sure in my bill, but that seems about right. I only went 950 miles for the month, so that's going to go up, but even still I don't see my bill going beyond $20/month. I'm figuring $240/year for electricity…if I do all my charging at home. Also, you have $1000 for charging station. How are you planning on charging? The EVSE that comes with the car can charge on 110V. If you want to charge using 220V, you obviously need a line in your house. You can also have your EVSE upgraded for $300 to be able to run on 220V. That's what I did…or am doing, it's on its' way back to me now after having been upgraded. I'm excited to be able to charge up quickly.
I think the leases are cheaper than the Prius for several reasons. First, I don't think there are subsidies and rebates like the Leaf has, as the Prius isn't a pure EV, it's a hybrid. Plus, the Prius has a strong following and Toyota sells a E36 M3 ton. The Leaf doesn't and so they want to sell them. That's changing though...sales are way up in 2013.
bastomatic wrote: In reply to mazdeuce: Our daughter is 18 months old now in a rear-facing seat. We actually drive the Fit with the rear-facing baby seat on the outboard side currently with my wife in front of it, and it's no problem at all. If we do have a second child, we shouldn't need both to face rear at any time. My only real concern is if we need a double stroller, will it fit in the Fit?
My solution to this was to get a Burley bike trailer. 2 kiddos, folds to 2' x 2' x 1' (some disassembly/assembly required). Granted, I also do the school run/work commute pulling it behind a bike...
For anyone who wonders how this ended: I ended up in a Nissan Leaf SV, the mid level model. No options. Dealers were all over the map on pricing, even when I presented them with my "no haggle" VPP Nissan discount. The Ann Arbor dealer had many in stock and was thousands cheaper than the other area dealerships.
bastomatic wrote: For anyone who wonders how this ended: I ended up in a Nissan Leaf SV, the mid level model. No options. Dealers were all over the map on pricing, even when I presented them with my "no haggle" VPP Nissan discount. The Ann Arbor dealer had many in stock and was thousands cheaper than the other area dealerships.
Can I ask what you ended up paying?
2000 due at signing, 213 a month including all taxes. Michigan has no incentives other than the federal rebate. 36 months, 12k miles a year
bastomatic wrote: 2000 due at signing, 213 a month including all taxes. Michigan has no incentives other than the federal rebate. 36 months, 12k miles a year
I wondered because of the SV. The S with VPP was $0 down, $243 per month.
The 2000 due at signing also includes about $1000 in dealer fees, taxes, etc etc.
bastomatic wrote: The 2000 due at signing also includes about $1000 in dealer fees, taxes, etc etc.
That's good, but I had literally $0. I had a two year lease, so the money down makes a bigger difference. Sounds like there's roughly a $1000 price difference between our two deals because of your SV to my S.
I'm starting to see more Hummers on the roads around here. There for a while, you hardly saw them. I think they might be coming back into vogue.
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