Teach me about adding a fireplace

Curtis said:

Can someone explain some of the differences?  I suppose there is an insert, a masonry, and a stove type?

I've heard about "inserts" which I assume is a more simple process.  That sounds like you build a wall and a flue and put a steel box in the wall, right?  If that's the case I could always do an insert and then face it with whatever masonry I want.

I suppose I need to make the trip to a fireplace store.  There actually is one about 10 miles from me, but I think they specialize in the decorative gas and electric wall units.

Masonry is the standard old school way, from Game of Thrones to modern styles they are actually built. Inserts can be put into existing fireplaces or up here people call the factory built steel box fireplaces inserts too. They are kinda cheesy IMO, they have lots of downsides and only have the woohoo-open-fire-in-my-house upside. Wood stoves are boxes you burn wood in. 

I really think you should think about the wood stove side of things, itll be the cheapest and safest option. I got my Fisher Grandpa Bear for $100, and it acts as a fireplace and wood stove, ill link you a good picture. The upside is its a fireplace you can close down to prevent sparks etc when you go to sleep, or are done with fireplace experience, the fire is contained and safe now. Not that masonry fireplaces are super dangerous or anything, but the fisher would basically be some stove pipe, a hole in the roof and moving the quarter ton stove in. Ive ran my whole house on a $500 generator quite a lot in life(i live off grid) and it could be done for that. You arent gonna do a masonry or insert for that much

Fisher stove

Not the greatest vid, but what i found in a few seconds, open the other door and put a screen in and you have all the crackling, smells and open fire

frenchyd said:

In reply to Curtis : An insert will be massively more expensive than a masonry fireplace that you scrounge the stone veneer for.  An insert  can easily be installed wrong!  

But a masonary fireplace if you follow the procedures is pretty straightforward 

I would love to pick your brain more about this.

Antihero: I agree that a stove is the easy button, but it's just not the aesthetic I'm going for.  I'm also a bit concerned with a stove that size.  We have a woodstove much like that in a small hunting cabin (that is actually bigger than my house) and lighting a fire in it with enough heat to work properly, it bakes you hardcore.  Something like that might be way too much heat.  At least with a masonry fireplace you can keep the fire modest and it will still draft.  The point here is not only that I don't care about using it for heat, there is a considerable factor of overheating every time you build a fire.  Since masonry fireplaces are so poor at heating, they would get me the function I'm seeking

With masonry fireplaces (like the one I grew up with) they also can have glass front doors that nearly seal it up making it more or less function like a stove in the safety department.  When I was a kid, we just had the chain curtain, but then dad had glass doors installed.

In reply to Curtis :

Ask away . I’ll help any way I can. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Can you point me toward some books/resources to research how to DIY build a masonry fireplace?  I have a mason friend who can help me learn the masonry part, but he is more in the construction/facade/kitchen thing and has zero experience with fireplaces.  I did a google search and found a couple videos of very complex designs and a lot of cheezy electric wall "fire" things for sale, but not much for just a straightforward fireplace.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I once rented a house that had a pretty cool setup that looked very easy to retrofit into any house. Not sure its what you are looking for but here is a picture I took:

I wrote down the company that makes them. I can look it up if you like it. 

In reply to Curtis :

Oh yeah, it'll definitely put out lots of heat and I hear you on the looks. I have one but I only heat with wood so it's more important that it puts out heat than anything

I know there are a lot of Northerners contributing to this thread, and masonry fireplaces are a standard there, but you are overlooking metal fireplaces. 

I have a metal gas burning unit. Stupid easy to install, all the romance of a wood burning masonry, none of the mess, can start a fire instantly with a remote control, and 30% of the cost of a masonry fireplace. Gas logs are now ridiculously convincing (they do not look fake). 

A gas metal fireplace can be installed by a DIYer in a weekend. A full blown masonry fireplace and chimney for a first timer is nearly a month’s worth of work. 

In a house as small as yours, I would NEVER go through the effort of installing a masonry fireplace. 

SVreX said:

I know there are a lot of Northerners contributing to this thread, and masonry fireplaces are a standard there, but you are overlooking metal fireplaces. 

I have a metal gas burning unit. Stupid easy to install, all the romance of a wood burning masonry, none of the mess, can start a fire instantly with a remote control, and 30% of the cost of a masonry fireplace. Gas logs are now ridiculously convincing (they do not look fake). 

A gas metal fireplace can be installed by a DIYer in a weekend. A full blown masonry fireplace and chimney for a first timer is nearly a month’s worth of work. 

In a house as small as yours, I would NEVER go through the effort of installing a masonry fireplace. 

Yes a gas metal fireplace is easy to install, but it’s not the same as a masonry wood burning fireplace. Think of it as the fake plastic mag wheel covers compared to the factory original mag wheels. 

It’s about the romance of burning wood. Staring at the fire as it burns down to the coals, The slight whiff of wood smoke. Exciting pop and crackle of a real wood fire. 

There is something to be said about the self reliance and independence of burning  wood

SVrex's input is valid, but I'm kinda with Frenchyd on this one.  I think I would rather keep the fireplace channel on my TV than go with anything other than wood burning.  I will entertain the notion of not doing masonry, but whatever I do  will burn wood.  I don't mind if it has a gas burner under it, but only as a means of burning wood on top of it.

My fireplace in TX had the gas tube under it and it was a nice feature.  I could fire up the gas to warm the flue and get a draft started, then throw a few full size chunks of oak on it and within 10 minutes I could turn off the gas and have a sustainable coal bed.  That prevented the newspaper, kindling, and smoky living room trying to start a fire with a cold flue.

But I will reiterate....  it will burn wood or I won't have a fireplace.

I will say... I don't need a full-on masonry fireplace.  I don't need to cut out the corner of my house and brick up a whole chimney.  If there is an insert option that lets me frame up a wall with backerboard, put a stainless flue out the wall, and then face the wall with river rock, I can make it look like a full masonry fireplace

In reply to Curtis :

Metal fireplaces can burn wood. 

They have wood framed chimney chases, and can be faced with stone. 

Its what you are describing. 

Let’s get the wording right...

An INSERT is a metal firebox that fits inside a masonry fireplace and improves the efficiency. 

A STOVE is free-standing and has legs or a pedestal. 

A METAL FIREPLACE is a complete metal system (chimney, firebox, etc) made of sheet metal, typically installed inside a wood framed chase. 

All are made of metal.

Metal fireplaces can burn wood, or gas, or use gas igniters to light wood. 

In reply to frenchyd :

I know exactly what a metal fireplace is, and what a masonry one is. I have built hundreds. I have owned both. 

I currently own a gas fired metal fireplace in my home, and a wood stove with a masonry surround in my cabin.

I also have built different kinds of masonry ones, including Isokern, etc. 

The cost and effort of a masonry fireplace is a ridiculous expense in an 800 SF house which will NEVER be recovered. 

Curtis, if you are gonna build masonry, you are gonna have to start with the FOOTINGS. It’s a really big effort. 

My previous house had a full masonry fireplace with LP gas logs. 

(Gas can be either natural gas or LP)

In reply to SVreX :

This is what I needed to know... correct terms.  I think a metal fireplace will get me what I want.  Then I can face it with some limestone or river rock to give enough of the appearance of a masonry fireplace without the crazy reconstruction of the whole corner of the house.  Thank you.

Add a little to the price of a metal fireplace to upgrade with circulating fans. 

For some reason, the salespeople never push these upgrades, but metal fireplaces are designed perfect for them. The firebox is essentially a huge double wall chamber, and circulating fans pull the heat from between the 2 wall layers and blow it into the room. Increases the heat output by at least 5X. 

A metal fireplace with glass doors and circulating fans is actually a reasonably efficient heat source, and it’s super easy to open or remove the doors for the full romance of the burning wood. 

re: circulating fans... exactly what I was thinking.  I have a scavenged squirrel cage fan that I planned on mounting inside the wall.  It may be a little big and loud for my application (came from an 8000 btu window A/C unit) but something like that was what I planned.

I foresee a day of google in my future today.

Firepit in the living room. 

So I found a bunch of steel fireplace boxes that would do the trick.  The boxes themselves don't weigh much, and I can't imagine face stone and framing overloading the floor (and I could add some support in the crawlspace)

It also appears as though there are masonry fireboxes that can be installed as little as 1" away from combustibles (so I could install them similarly to a steel fireplace) and will accept stainless vents, but they weigh nearly a ton.  Not sure I want to DIY a Camry into my house unless I can find a suitable way to support the floor.  They're also bloody expensive.  I'm looking at around $2000 for just the firebox compared to $500 for a steel box.

Curtis, if there is any interest I could post pix of our upgrade process. It involved facing rock to make it all purdy, among other things. I am quite certain there will be building codes to be met, and more 9f them than you think, cuz there were way more than I thought and all we were doing was replacing one fireplace with another. YMMV of course. It might be easier since you'll be starting from scratch as opposed to say f'rinstance  finding out your exisiting flue and clearances don't meet current code...

In reply to Curtis :

The metal flue pipes are likely to be more costly than the firebox (stainless double wall), and you have to have them. 

The masonry fireplace is at least 3X that weight by the time your build the chimney. 

very much following but scrolling ahead momentarily to say that growing up in Ireland a turf fire was wonderful.  Yes if you could smell the turf it wasn't burning efficiently so what and also having to go up the 'mountain' to stack dry turn stack dry the turf whilst being attacked by midges was not so much fun but it was worth it in the end.  Bagging the turf in old fertilizer bags would skin your knuckles humping 300 of them onto a flat bed towed by a tractor sucked too but yep it was worth it come fire time. 

In reply to nutherjrfan :

What’s a turf fire?  Grass?