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captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/28/21 10:17 a.m.

And I'm not merely talking about advocating for the importance of self-care and mental health and knowing when it's okay to back off from holding yourself to a higher standard than anyone else.

 

I'm talking about the dirty ugly disgusting elephant in the room that nobody seems to be talking about. Because the Olympics are supposed to be a celebration and we don't want to talk about the ugly truth that occurred up until less than 5 years ago  This young woman was a victim of sexual abuse and assault by then team doctor Larry Nassar. She was targeted, she was groomed and she was made a victim. Years of commitment to a sport by a young woman who grew up in foster care and had invested time and tens of thousands of dollars had been invested in her development within the sport. A bet was made that she would not give up the sport that she loves and the bond of her teammates and the commitment to country if she were targeted to become a victim. This incredibly strong brave driven intelligent woman said not today. She showed the world and the United States gymnastics association that you are not going to get a gold medal on the shoulders of my efforts when reports of abuse had been brought before you and you've covered them up because you didn't want the negative attention or publicity and it wasn't until they were taken to law enforcement that things were taken seriously and changes were made, reluctantly. She said I'm not going to go win gold for you and project the image that everything is now okay with what occurred under your watch. There is responsibility to be held. 

 

Raise your daughters in that light. If there was a way that I could purchase something to wear that showed support of this young woman that somehow did not support or fund the US gymnastics association or Olympic committee I absolutely would. As there isn't, I'm making a donation to RAINN in her recognition. 

 

 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/28/21 10:25 a.m.

I was proud of her last week when discussing the Olympics with my family. I don't follow sports much at all, but she's an exception. 
 

My feelings and respect for her have not changed. I wish her well. 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/28/21 10:32 a.m.

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

As I commented in another thread specifically about the Olympics I haven't and don't plan on watching a minute of it. What occurred to her is a large part of why, but she as a person and human being is also why I wish that I did. In high school I swam for NBAC Meadowbrook, and was on the US under 19 team and went to trials in Indianapolis. The life and grind that many of the athletes are subjected to, and I say subjected because many are not involved entirely voluntarily and many give up recreational sports that they enjoy in order to focus, but it's not a fun balance there's a strong sense of fraternity with people on teams but it's not a love or a passion for most involved, it's something that they're driven and told that they're going to do because they're better than everyone else at it. And oftentimes the reason they're better is opportunity due to facilities and because they specialize in it. And then when it's done when they've climbed the mountain and reached the pinnacle, it's over and they're left with nothing but a void without a focus and feeling that they're without purpose. 

 

As ugly and disgusting and gross as what Biles has had to endure, It is crystal clear that she understands her purpose and focus going forward. I absolutely tip my hat to her. 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
7/28/21 10:41 a.m.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

This incredibly strong brave driven intelligent woman said not today. She showed the world and the United States gymnastics association that you are not going to get a gold medal on the shoulders of my efforts when reports of abuse had been brought before you and you've covered them up because you didn't want the negative attention or publicity and it wasn't until they were taken to law enforcement that things were taken seriously and changes were made, reluctantly. She said I'm not going to go win gold for you and project the image that everything is now okay with what occurred under your watch. There is responsibility to be held. 

I haven't seen any of this anywhere.  I feel this might be projection?

Nicole Suddard
Nicole Suddard GRM+ Memberand Marketing Coordinator
7/28/21 10:42 a.m.

She also made the tough decision to prioritize her own health.

When you're flying and spinning through the air at the speeds and heights she reaches, there isn't really room for error, hesitation or doubt. If you're going in for 2 or 2.5 spins and you only make 1.5 rotations, that landing is not going to be safe because you're not oriented in space the way your muscle memory is expecting. It's extremely lucky that she wasn't seriously injured, and it was very smart of her to hit pause before she did get hurt. Still the GOAT and an incredible team player. We're lucky to have her on our team.

Nicole Suddard
Nicole Suddard GRM+ Memberand Marketing Coordinator
7/28/21 10:44 a.m.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Yeah I haven't seen anything about her dropping out in protest of anything either. I truly think she wanted the gold, but wasn't physically/mentally able to reach it this year.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/28/21 10:56 a.m.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

https://time.com/6084384/why-simone-biles-out-team-event-silver/

 

-

"Biles’ stunning decision comes after a tumultuous five years that she and USAG have undergone since 2016. Biles is the only survivor of a sexual abuse scandal that has upturned USAG in the past five years who is still competing. In an interview with TIME before the Olympics began, Biles admitted that the postponement of the Games from last year weighed on her, as it would mean another year of dealing with the USAG and what the survivors feel is the organization’s lack of transparency and accountability.

 

USAG remains in bankruptcy and was de-certified by the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee (UOSPC) in 2018, after former national team doctor Larry Nassar was sentenced on multiple charges of child pornography and sex crimes for sexually abusing athletes, including Biles, over several decades. The U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee (USOPC) began the decertification process over USAG’s failure to protect athletes from Nassar’s years-long abuse and for its lack of transparency in about early complaints about the doctor. But because of the bankruptcy, which was USAG’s attempt to resolve the costly lawsuits it now faces from dozens of gymnasts who are survivors of Nassar’s abuse, including Biles, USOPC has halted decertification procedures.

According to attorney John Manly, who represents more than 200 of the survivors, “the greatest frustration from my clients comes from the fact that none of the enablers to Larry Nassar in the Olympic movement have been held to account.” Steve Penny, USAG president at the time, has been indicted for evidence-tampering related to removal of documents during the Nassar investigation, but has not gone to trial because of COVID-19 delays. Members of USOPC who the survivors say were notified of the abuse and failed to hold USAG accountable, have also not been held accountable, says Manly. The national training camp system that brought together elite, world championship and Olympic level gymnasts each month from around the country to take advantage of intensive skills workshops has continued, but no longer at the Karolyi ranch in Houston run by former national team coordinator Martha Karolyi, known for her strict and demanding training style.

Whether the camps continue, and in what capacity, isn’t clear yet. How the women’s gymnastics program emerges from the scandal depends on how transparent USAG will be about its past, to ensure that it learns and changes unhealthy practices for the future. Already, the stunning testimony from dozens of survivors at Nassar’s sentencing in January 2018 has improved the culture in gyms around the country, not to mention the training camps for elite athletes. In addition to the sexual abuse that was prevalent at many gyms, numbers gymnasts have also stepped forward to report verbal and physical abuse by coaches who relied on domineering and demeaning training tactics. “The system I grew up in, the coaches motivated us—myself and my teammates on the national team—through fear,” says Jordyn Wieber, member of the gold-medal winning 2012 Olympic team, a survivor of Nassar’s abuse, and now a head coach of women’s gymnastics at University of Arkansas. “It was fear we would disappoint our coaches, fear we would fail, fear we could get in trouble, fear we would be ignored. I wouldn’t say it’s the healthiest way.” At this year’s national championships, which Wieber attended as a recruiter, she already noticed dramatic changes in that culture. “More than anything it was the way the athletes interacted with each other—high fiving, leaning on one another. They were a little more free to be themselves, while I remember feeling like we couldn’t have too much fun and had to be serious. Based on what I saw, I do think things are getting a little better, and I definitely have hope.”

 

That’s the legacy that the survivors, which include the entire 2012 Olympic team, hope to leave on their sport. Biles has said that as the only remaining survivor still competing, she hopes her presence is a visible and constant reminder of what the USAG still owes all survivors—transparency, truth and accountability for its role in allowing Nassar to continue treating gymnasts. With Biles’ sudden withdrawal from the sport’s most prominent event, more questions likely will be raised about the support that USAG is, or isn’t, providing to its athletes and whether the disarrayed state of the organization is having a negative impact on athletes.

It gets to the fact that a lot of the stress and pressure and uncomfortableness that she has is based upon the fact that people above Nasser who knew within the organization have not been held accountable. She wants to stay above it so she doesn't speak on it publicly because she doesn't want to detract from the efforts of her teammates, and she doesn't want to relive it. But where she is in terms of coping and dealing with things mentally and what she endures is due to this, we cannot forget that aspect or overlook it. I appreciate her strength and not wanting it to define her as being a victim should not define anyone. But it also doesn't mean that we should look past what the organization did, especially until there's accountability for it. "

 

 

The reason why you don't hear about it is because the Olympics are supposed to be hand-holding song singing kumbaya. And it doesn't fit their narrative and it doesn't drive ratings and it doesn't make people happy and it doesn't make people proud of their country. But it doesn't mean that it's not a reflection of where we actually are as a society versus where we should be. 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
7/28/21 11:21 a.m.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

It gets to the fact that a lot of the stress and pressure and uncomfortableness that she has is based upon the fact that people above Nasser who knew within the organization have not been held accountable.

So the only thing in that vein I can find is from this article

Speaking out was liberating, Biles says, but made preparing for Tokyo, particularly with the COVID-19 delay, that much more challenging. The gym, which had always been a sanctuary of sorts for Biles, became a constant reminder of the abuse. “And I don’t think the extra year helped with that, since it was, ‘Ugh, another year dealing with [USA Gymnastics], another year dealing with this,’ ” she says. “How much can I take before I had enough?”

In the article you posted, and in the one I linked I don't see anything about her not wanting to talk about it as it may detract from her teammates efforts, I don't see her talking about how the US didn't get gold because no one has been held accountable.  There was no "bet" made that she wouldn't give up; rapists don't bet, they don't care about that, all they care about is not getting caught.  
The only thing I saw in the articles was that it is another source of stress on the end of a hugely stressful 5 years. 

From what little I know about post-rape life for women, and God knows it isn't a lot, they generally want to go back to being themselves.  They don't want to be an icon for standing up against rape.  They don't want to be a hero.  They want to not have been raped.

I know that this post was created as a way of supporting and honoring Ms Biles and her strength, but if you want do that then demand that the USAG do something.  Otherwise its one more thing that's being put on her that she doesn't need.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/28/21 11:33 a.m.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

The "bet" was made by Nassar when he committed the atrocities against her. Not by the organization after the fact. I'll project that's where your disconnect is. 

 

The majority of sexual assault victims do not come forward and do not press charges. The "bet" was that she would not. It was in the grooming and the targeting It's not anything to do with the aftermath once things came to light. That being said she did not need to choose to stick around once things came to light. She stuck around for her teammates to support them to make sure that horrible things weren't still occurring and to be there visible as a reminder of what recently happened under the watch of those who are still in charge, which is outlined in the articles. I cannot make you comprehend that, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make the horse see how putrid the water is if they still want to lap it up because it tastes like nationalism. And that last sentence is not directed specifically at you, It's at the millions of people who soak up and bask in this faux glory that is the Olympics every two years. 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
7/28/21 11:56 a.m.

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Oh no, I understood what you meant by "bet."  It is 100% not the source of any disconnect.  I stand by everything I said in relation to that phrase.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, cause its bringing up way too much E36 M3 that I don't want to think about or remember right now.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
7/28/21 12:03 p.m.

...and sons.

All people can learn that it's okay to push and be competitive, but that you will be better in the long run if you do not sacrifice your physical and mental health for a moment of glory.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/28/21 12:04 p.m.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

I can respect and take no issue with that. It is a gross ugly disgusting topic And there are some things that there are no "right answers" on. And there are things that certain people, and I put myself in that camp, aren't qualified to state whether an answer or course of action is correct. 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/28/21 12:05 p.m.

In reply to Beer Baron :

Okay now you're just hitting home with that one. 

jharry3
jharry3 GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/28/21 12:42 p.m.

Girl's gymnastics at that level is extraordinarily tough.  They said its harder to land a back flip on the beam than to hit a major league curve ball.  The practice time required is brutal.  My daughter made it to the level where she needed to practice 15 hours a week to remain at her level.  A lot of the coaching, outside of the mechanics, consisted of the coachs berating the girls to try harder, telling them they aren't serious, getting to them emotionally.    My daughter hit 13, ended up with a sadistic coach before we realized it,  said this is insane, and quit. 

The ones who kept going forward gave up social lives, school activities, a lot of the parents went to home schooling so their daughters could move up to the 25 to 30 hour a week level.    One of the moms at our gym won a gold medal at the Olympics, basically she is gymnastics royalty.  She was very nice to the other parents and told us stories about the pressure, etc.    She was about 40 at the time and had just had both hips replaced.  At her level it was over 40 hours a week practice to remain competitive. 

Its sad this girl broke in the middle of the games but sadder still that others probably knew it was coming and did nothing about it.  Just urged her onward.

 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/28/21 1:00 p.m.

In reply to jharry3 :

I will only disagree with one thing and that is the notion that it is sad that she broke down during the games. It is beautiful that she realized that life is bigger and her health is more important during the games as in addition to all the demons that she faced within her own personal experience it highlights exactly what you shared with us that every competitor within the sport beyond a passive 8-10 week experimental dabble in the sport has to endure. That to me is exactly why she should be championed. 

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter)
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/28/21 1:11 p.m.

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment, with one caveat. The drive has to come from within. If you're being driven into this level of competition because your parents and coaches saw your potential and are pushing you, that's one thing. But if YOU are willing to sacrifice a normal social life, schooling, and so on because YOU have that goal in mind, more power to you.

Aside from the abuse, are the childhoods of high-level Olypmic athletes that different from those of, say F1 drivers? Lewis Hamilton was racing karts when he was 8.  Max Verstappen was racing in F1 when he was 17. Do you think those guys had normal childhoods?

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/28/21 1:32 p.m.

In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :

It's not necessarily about normal childhoods. It's about the payoff at the back end. F1 drivers make tens of millions of dollars a year there's some of the wealthiest athletes in the world, the granted let's be honest they all came from money as well, also their season is the majority of the year and it occurs every year, it's not 15 minutes to an hour of fame where you become a household name for 2 to 4 weeks then to fade in the memories. 

 

The Olympics parade around as this multi-billion dollar entity under the guise of amateurism which basically means the athletes put in all of the work and reap none of the financial benefits. 

 

That's where I question the sanity of it. Rolling the dice and subjecting yourself to a stringent abnormal lifestyle for your adolescent years to potentially make tens of millions, is different than doing so to potentially make maybe hundreds of thousands if you're lucky and managed to win multiple gold medals.  

 

Being a bullpen catcher or a long snapper I think are the most sensible athletic dreams and yet nobody has them until their too old to chase them. 

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos)
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/28/21 1:44 p.m.
jharry3 said:

Its sad this girl broke in the middle of the games but sadder still that others probably knew it was coming and did nothing about it.  Just urged her onward.

 

Here is another way we could phrase it: 

It's amazing that this person had the strength and maturity to be realistic enough about her current situation and long term wellbeing to reach this decision in the middle of the games. It's sad that others may have known it was coming and did nothing about it, but instead just urged her onward. People are going to second guess this decision for years to come, but her path through her career, her records and achievements all speak for her toughness, resiliency, fierce determination and amazing skills.

 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/28/21 1:47 p.m.

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) :

Excellently stated 

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/28/21 2:03 p.m.

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) :

Agreed, and very well put. I can't imagine the inner fortitude it took her to take a step back, analyse what was going on, determine that continuing would be hazardous to her, and follow through with the course of action that was best for her. In the face of most likely overwhelming pressure to continue, nonetheless.

Lof8 - Andy
Lof8 - Andy GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/28/21 2:07 p.m.

Despite the backstory, Simone quit in the middle of the Olympics.  She took a spot on the team from a girl who has also worked her whole life and dreamed of being an Olympian.  She quit on her teammates.  

Every athlete in the Olympic games is dealing with tremendous pressure to perform at the highest level.  The best ones excel in this situation.  I don't think you can call the ones who quit, "the greatest of all time," whatever their individual circumstances may be.  

full disclosure - I don't really care about the Olympics.  I haven't watched any.  I'm not particularly upset by Simone's actions, I may even agree with them in some way.  But I'm not really in agreement with praising an Olympic athlete for quitting in the middle of the games.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
7/28/21 2:32 p.m.

In reply to Lof8 - Andy :

You should find out what happened before saying she quit on her teammates.  She didn't quit- she saw that she had mentally gotten into a place where she could not perform.  So instead of dooming the team to last place for really bad performances, she dropped out- putting an alternate in.  And they almost won gold.  With Simone participating and not being able to hit anything- they would have lost, badly.  Thanks to Simone seeing what was going on, the team managed to get Silver.

She gets praise for seeing that had she continued, the team would have lost.  

Lof8 - Andy
Lof8 - Andy GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/28/21 2:35 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

I stand corrected.  I'm glad an alternate got to step up in her place.  Thanks.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
7/28/21 2:42 p.m.

It is a shame that her coaching was not better to account for the mental strain they put on such a fantastic athlete and ensure they worked with her so that she peaked in the moment of competition, but instead overworked and overpressured her so she burned out at the most inopportune time.

Or maybe the coaching was done properly, and they made a calculated risk that she might or might not be able to handle it. That she did what she could but ultimately made the call they would have wanted to pass the torch when necessary.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
7/28/21 2:52 p.m.

In reply to Beer Baron :

That kind of assumes what happened to trigger it.  Given it just developed over the weekend (as there were some sings in the prelims)- understanding what triggered it still needs to happen.  Simone *might* still compete later this week...

But I do agree that I sure hope they manage to look in on themselves to understand how the best in the world can be crippled like that.  And it could very much be a shame that the coaching staff didn't react to it earlier.

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