Thank you EPA.

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/Economic_Hardships_Could_Close_Ashland_Coke_Plant__111212659.html

Go phuck yourself EPA.

As if there are any jobs around right now......

I take it this hits close to home-

I'm sorry to hear that.

You sure told the EPA off, but what about the old equipment?

The jobs they are promising are they in the same area or will you have to relocate?

reading between the lines...

The company decided to close the plant because they didn't want to put more money into the plant and are using the EPA regulations as a scape goat.

This quote is quite telling .. "AK Steel said that while the company's goal is to be more self-sufficient in steelmaking raw materials, "further operation of the Ashland Coke Plant is not in the best interests of the company and its shareholders.""

Sorry to hear about this causing you some issues, but blaming the EPA for this issue is like blaming the state safety inspector for your worn tires.

I like that the EPA is about to force E15 down our throats while the auto mani's protest the potential damage to engines and subsequent voiding of warranties.

Question:

Can the auto mani's void a warranty because of the gas the gov't forces us to use? If so, does the gov't become responsible for the cost of warranty work reimbursement since their E15 caused the damage?

Is this plant off of Route 23? If so, I've made plenty of trips by there going to see my family, who many still live in Eastern Kentucky. I work at a chemical/fertilizer manufacturing plant. I wonder what kind of crap the EPA will try to make us change. Fortunately, we are busy now.

Ignorant wrote: Sorry to hear about this causing you some issues, but blaming the EPA for this issue is like blaming the state safety inspector for your worn tires.

that comparison only holds water if you then follow with: in your neighboring state, the same tires have no problems with their safety inspectors.

Ignorant wrote: reading between the lines... The company decided to close the plant because they didn't want to put more money into the plant and are using the EPA regulations as a scape goat.

You got it. But blaming the government resonates better with many folk.

z31maniac wrote: I like that the EPA is about to force E15 down our throats while the auto mani's protest the potential damage to engines and subsequent voiding of warranties. Question: Can the auto mani's void a warranty because of the gas the gov't forces us to use? If so, does the gov't become responsible for the cost of warranty work reimbursement since their E15 caused the damage?

If the current lawsuits are defeated, including those by some states, E-15 will be for 2007 and up vehicles. E-10 will not be dropped, it will have to be at every gas station, where it's currently sold.. They won't be able to sell just E-15.

Personally, I don't like it either, as I see it as only costing us more--"we have to make room for E-15 in storage and processing, driving the price up of further refinement and delivery..." The only winner will be Agri-business. Watch the cost of food go up, too.

madmallard wrote:

Ignorant wrote: Sorry to hear about this causing you some issues, but blaming the EPA for this issue is like blaming the state safety inspector for your worn tires.

that comparison only holds water if you then follow with: in your neighboring state, the same tires have no problems with their safety inspectors.

my state has no safety inspection...

But I don't think you are correct.. If you read the comments that people posted on that original article, there is discussion about the poor condition of the plant.

Don't try the whole China has no regulations argument. I truly believe this argument isn't about regulations. I believe the company is using them as a scapegoat. If you believe that the regulations are crushing the steel industry, do some research on the company http://www.nucor.com/ This is the same BS that GM pulled with their union employees. They blamed all their problems on union pensions, but did nothing to address the fact that their products were stale................

triumph5 wrote: The only winner will be Agri-business. Watch the cost of food go up, too.

Ding Ding Ding..

Corn lobby at work. Thank your red state congressmen for paying for overproduction..

What that movie.. It's quite good.

btw.. I have a mild allergy to corn. It's in all our foodstuffs and makes me not so happy.

Ignorant wrote: btw.. I have a mild allergy to ALCOHOL. IT MAKES ME DIZZY AND I THROW UP A LOT, BUT DRINKING IT MAKES ME HAPPY.

Edited to make me giggle.

Ignorant wrote: This is the same BS that GM pulled with their union employees. They blamed all their problems on union pensions, but did nothing to address the fact that their products were stale................

...Or their CEO's were overpaid and over-pampered dinosaurs from a bygone era. This especially applies when the line worker, union or non-union, is asked to take a pay cut while the white collar workers are left untouched.

There are many ways to mismanage a companies resources. There are innumerable ways to shift the blame for that mismanagement.

Either way, I'm sorry tough times are coming your way Ranger50. If that's the case I hope things get better or you're able to move where things are better. Good luck out there.

triumph5 wrote: If the current lawsuits are defeated, including those by some states, E-15 will be for 2007 and up vehicles. E-10 will not be dropped, it will have to be at every gas station, where it's currently sold.. They won't be able to sell just E-15. Personally, I don't like it either, as I see it as only costing us more--"we have to make room for E-15 in storage and processing, driving the price up of further refinement and delivery..." The only winner will be Agri-business. Watch the cost of food go up, too.

The whole E15 thing is really weird. Where is the demand for E15 being sold alongside E10 blends, anyway?

In reply to MadScientistMatt: The entire push for E-15 is by Agribusiness, who saw their profits take off with E-10 and esp E-85. It's also somewhat fed by the "get off foreign oil" lobby, as a stop-gap to electrics/fuel cells/whatever.

But, look who's behind the push, and who's paying the lobyists and PR firms, and there's Agri-business.

And Ranger50, wish you the best man, I've been unemployed for a year--making a bit of money here and there by taking a hobby-ish item, and making it a business. Losing all benefits and insurance sucks, though.

Ignorant wrote:

triumph5 wrote: The only winner will be Agri-business. Watch the cost of food go up, too.

Ding Ding Ding.. Corn lobby at work. Thank your red state congressmen for paying for overproduction

Nice try to deflect all blame to those only partially responsible:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11270909

The guilty are everywhere when you point a finger at corporations, government and K Street.

triumph5 wrote: In reply to MadScientistMatt: The entire push for E-15 is by Agribusiness, who saw their profits take off with E-10 and esp E-85. It's also somewhat fed by the "get off foreign oil" lobby, as a stop-gap to electrics/fuel cells/whatever. But, look who's behind the push, and who's paying the lobyists and PR firms, and there's Agri-business.

That's the supply. The demand still hasn't been accounted for.

From here: Another News Article

"The report, filed in early November, states that notices of violation from the Environmental Protection Agency could cost up to $50 million to fix over a period of several years. ... The age and rapidly escalating environmental compliance costs associated with the company's Ashland coke batteries are continuing concerns," the report states. "It is possible that the impact of the cost increases resulting from compliance with the final Consent Decree could make it no longer cost effective to make coke at the Ashland facility."

Is this $50 Million because of new regulations they are not complying with and have to buy new machines to meet the regs or have the current machines just gotten old and stopped working properly and will need to be replaced to meet regs they used to meet? As an automotive analogy, is the EPA forcing them to put a catalytic convertor on a 1957 Chevy so that it meets 2010 emission standards or has their 1990 Mustang's catalytic convertor gone bad and needs to be replaced in order to meet 1990 emissions regs?

Bob

MadScientistMatt wrote:

triumph5 wrote: In reply to MadScientistMatt: The entire push for E-15 is by Agribusiness, who saw their profits take off with E-10 and esp E-85. It's also somewhat fed by the "get off foreign oil" lobby, as a stop-gap to electrics/fuel cells/whatever. But, look who's behind the push, and who's paying the lobyists and PR firms, and there's Agri-business.

That's the supply. The demand still hasn't been accounted for.

Unfortunately, the only real way the demand will go down is when we hit $4.50/gallon--and that'll be considerd "normal"

The US should also be doing more to use recycled steel. We ship out most of it to China for them to recycle and use it in their exports.

In reply to Schmidlap:

It is closer to the 57 Chevy needing cats analogy.

But the problem I have is that AK is trying to shoot at a moving target. From what I know, which is information before I moved here, is that the state of KY is/was already on the hook for many millions to bring that plant up to specs about 15 yrs ago. Now those aren't close enough for the new standards. I know they can build a new plant or retrofit, but then good luck getting permits to build the damn thing.

So now we have 250 people trying to find employment with very specific skill sets in a job market that doesn't exist for "new" employment opportunities.

Don't even get me started on coal mining air regulations, as it is the same song and dance.

Ignorant wrote: But I don't think you are correct.. If you read the comments that people posted on that original article, there is discussion about the poor condition of the plant. Don't try the whole China has no regulations argument. I truly believe this argument isn't about regulations. I believe the company is using them as a scapegoat.

I can't address your viewpoint until I have more information.

Do similar plants operate under different regulations, i.e. outside the EPA and therefore in another country?

Do they have compulsory operating standards that parallel EPA mandates?

I can't reasonably discuss the scapegoating angle until I've elminated this as a notion on the issue. :-/ but thats just me.

triumph5 wrote:

z31maniac wrote: I like that the EPA is about to force E15 down our throats while the auto mani's protest the potential damage to engines and subsequent voiding of warranties. Question: Can the auto mani's void a warranty because of the gas the gov't forces us to use? If so, does the gov't become responsible for the cost of warranty work reimbursement since their E15 caused the damage?

If the current lawsuits are defeated, including those by some states, E-15 will be for 2007 and up vehicles. E-10 will not be dropped, it will have to be at every gas station, where it's currently sold.. They won't be able to sell just E-15. Personally, I don't like it either, as I see it as only costing us more--"we have to make room for E-15 in storage and processing, driving the price up of further refinement and delivery..." The only winner will be Agri-business. Watch the cost of food go up, too.

I may be against ethanol fuel completely, but doesn't it work well in turbocharged engines? Something about raising the octane and cooling the intake charge better, allow for much more boost? Sure fuel economy plummets from reduced power density in the fuel, and some engine parts dont like it, but i'm all up for more boost.

on second thought, I don't have a turbocharged car at the moment... hmmm... screw ethanol fuel!!!

And Ranger, I'm really sorry to hear about the lost jobs. I just found out today one of my childhood friend's parents just lost their home. Merry Christmas to them, eh?

Oh, wow. Once again our board delivers--hadn't heard about this, even though I grew up a mile away from the plant.

I have mixed feelings at this news. This will hit Ashland hard, and we're talking about a town that greeted a prison as manna from heaven, jobs-wise. On the other hand, I remember my mom fussing 35 years ago about her sheets coming in off the line all gritty because of this plant, and can't help but wonder what toxic stew I have foaming around inside me thanks to spending my childhood so close to that.

Margie

oldsaw wrote:

Ignorant wrote:

triumph5 wrote: The only winner will be Agri-business. Watch the cost of food go up, too.

Ding Ding Ding.. Corn lobby at work. Thank your red state congressmen for paying for overproduction

Nice try to deflect all blame to those only partially responsible: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11270909 The guilty are everywhere when you point a finger at corporations, government and K Street.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Butz

start there.