The unthinkable: SUV buying advice?

What's wrong with the Safari van??

With all due respect, what is your need in FL for the 4x4, other than the he-man factor?

A full sized truck with an extended cab makes a fine tow vehicle/ occasional family car (like mine). They're cheap now, seat 6 adults, and are available in diesels.

Suburban Subdivisions are also really cheap right now and tow well. This is for occassional use, right? She won't put up with the big vehicle for occassional?

ignorant wrote: for the same fuel mileage you could have a suburBARN.. http://charleston.craigslist.org/cto/881791515.html <--- example or Get yourself a full sized van.. Noone wants them. They tow awesome, haul a bunch, and have the same fuel mileage as the durango.. I learned a great deal about "midsized " 4x4 trucks when I had my ranger. They have half the utility at the nearly the same fuel economy as full sized. edit: Think real hard about 4x4. There is a mileage penalty for it. Sometimes the penalty is significant. My 4x4 ranger with a 3.0 would get 20mpg on the highway. A 2wd version could touch 24....

Agree 100%.

I currently own a Cummins club cab LB 4x4 5 spd. It's not a bad truck... and my last fuel fill-up calculated to 23.3 mpg (bearing in mind I try to avoid going above 60 mph) and that included a return trip from the mtns with a bed load of firewood...

That said, my previous part-time hauler was a gutted, raised roof conversion van... and boy to I miss it. It had a 5.0 EFI w/ AOD and would get around 17 mpg on RUG. NOTHING is better for hauling than a big box on wheels.

A diesel sounds great, but you need to do the math first. You pay a big premium for a diesel over a similar gas truck. And when you get into used truck territry, the premium can be double. Personally, for the amount I drive my truck (less than 3K /year) I will never get the money back for the Cummins vs. a V8 or V10. Add to the fact that diesels can cost considerably more to fix, and there have been a few times I've wanted to unload the Cummins and get an older gas Ford that would be easier to work on.

basically: if you're going to drive the truck a LOT and/or need serious towing capacity (like a 30+ 5th wheel), then a diesel can be good. But for most part-time use, a gas truck is a better buy.

SVreX wrote: With all due respect, what is your need in FL for the 4x4, other than the he-man factor?

I agree with this question. I owned a 4x4 truck in rochester ny.. I could count on one hand how many times I used 4wd up there per year, and most of those were having fun wheeling. If it was snowing hard enough to require the use to 4wd.. you really shouldn't have been out.

All of our company trucks that our construction superintendent's drive are 2WD 5.4L Super Dutys and I've yet to hear of any of them missing work due to snow. Amazing what 4-500 lbs of sandbags in the bed will do for you. And this is in Ohio where we do occasionaly get snow.

While there is a premium for 4wd in purchase price and mileage, you almost always recoup it on the back end because any 4wd truck is easy to sell. I want 4wd because I tend to want to do dumb things with my vehicles. Its going to be a tow vehicle and the vehicles I buy often are in the woods on the other side of muddy nastiness. Mainly I just want it if possible because when the time comes where 4wd helps, I want to have it. I may not be able to afford it in my price range, but we will see.

I do want something with more ground clearance than a P71, and I do prefer the looks of a Ute over a van. Maybe in my old age ive become trendy?

Any other favorites among this crew in the 2-4k range? Land Rover? Grand Cherokee? What vehicles am I missing?

Like the car we're going to see on Sunday?!?

MrJoshua wrote: Any other favorites among this crew in the 2-4k range? Land Rover? Grand Cherokee? What vehicles am I missing?

Grand chero would be nice.. But I'm betting best will be SuburBARN... probably the best bang for buck...

The rover won't be reliable enough for you..

well, if you must have 4WD and need decent cargo capacity and towing... and with a $2-4K budget... I'd be looking for a Suburban... cheap to buy, cheap to keep running, parts grow on trees. Maybe a Ford... but for a full-size SUV, I lean towards the Chevy.

A $4K Land Rover makes me twitch...

dyintorace wrote: Like the car we're going to see on Sunday?!?

Man oh man that will be cool if that works out-talk about some of the better production fender flares!

Ian F wrote: well, if you must have 4WD and need decent cargo capacity and towing... and with a $2-4K budget... I'd be looking for a Suburban... cheap to buy, cheap to keep running, parts grow on trees. Maybe a Ford... but for a full-size SUV, I lean towards the Chevy. A $4K Land Rover makes me twitch...

$4k 99ish discos are everywhere.

MrJoshua wrote: $4k 99ish discos are everywhere.

You're in Florida, right? Alligators are everywhere too. That doesn't mean you go trying to pet one.

914Driver wrote: Durangos get much less gas mileage than comparable SUVs. I have a V6 5spd. 4-Runner,tows fine, comfortable, but what I came to appreciate in this that other SUVs don't have is a rear window that goes down. Even when it's raining, lower it an inch or so and air flows through the vehicle. Jeeps, Rangos etc. don't do this. Dan

All full-size Broncos have that, as well. I'm not sure, but I believe the non-ambulance-door'd full-size Blazers and Ramchargers do, too.

Ian F wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: $4k 99ish discos are everywhere.

You're in Florida, right? Alligators are everywhere too. That doesn't mean you go trying to pet one.

Maybe YOU don't try to pet one!

MrJoshua wrote: Maybe YOU don't try to pet one!

I'd pet an alligator before buying a late model Land Rover...

dyintorace wrote: Like the car we're going to see on Sunday?!?

Clue a brother in?

dyintorace wrote: My wife wants a 4 Runner for the rear window alone! She wants it so she can take our dog (Great Dane) places and let him hang his head out the back window.

Be careful, my cousin hit a dog when it jumped out a SUV's back window at a stoplight! The owner got out and said "How in the world did he open the door?" Nobody was hurt.

MrJoshua wrote: $4k 99ish discos are everywhere.

you know AIDS can be had for free.. Doesn't make me want to jump out there and get it...

They have their following and are great vehicles.. but they are underpowered and have the fuel economy of a ford excursion. They're heavy. The electrics are made of ... ohh.. nothing.. but the most fire attractant materials a failing british manufacturer could come up with ...

but.. anyway.. for something constructive.. Speak to Sonic

Sonic said:99 Land Rover Discovery II - most of my towing is boats from 2k to 4k, in rolling hills around New England. Non towing I get about 16 - full time 4WD and barnlike aerodynamics. Towing 2k at 70 it drops to about 13-14. Towing 4k it drops to about 11 or 12, but the boat have some significant windage, especially the big one.

from there http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/tow-vehicle-mileage/897/page1/

Also.. some info in http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/grassroots-offroader/1598/page1/ <--- Seems like ChrisV has had some success from the Classic Range Rovers.

I want a range rover or landy, but I work with Brits... They love them, but will tell you 1st thing about their horrid this and that.. Mostly rust, poor upkeep(get records)

http://www.landroversonly.com/forums/f40/i-really-really-want-disco-inform-me-26793/ (I didn't know Series II used premium)

As for grand cherokees you mentioned early, reference Jensenman (he's got experience). I have to say that a grand cherokee saved my dad's life and for that I'll always want another. They are good. 4.0 is stout and the 5.2 is proven.. Get one without quadratrac.. trust me... with it they are pigs.

http://www.landroverforums.com/m_82287/tm.htm

forgot about the guy at my old job that had a Disco I.. I think it got 13 mpg on the highway. Nice looking vehicle though.

for a daily maybe not.. but for an off road rig.. Hell yeah.

btw.. I'm over tired.

Why does everyone suggest the Grand Cherokee over the regular Cherokee? I've always felt the Grand was the fat younger brother, and not worth a second glance unless you absolutely had to have a V8, and didn't care if the I6 made just as much torque, almost as much power, and got better fuel economy.

ignorant wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: $4k 99ish discos are everywhere.

you know AIDS can be had for free.. Doesn't make me want to jump out there and get it... They have their following and are great vehicles.. but they are underpowered and have the fuel economy of a ford excursion. They're heavy. The electrics are made of ... ohh.. nothing.. but the most fire attractant materials a failing british manufacturer could come up with ... but.. anyway.. for something constructive.. Speak to Sonic

Sonic said:99 Land Rover Discovery II - most of my towing is boats from 2k to 4k, in rolling hills around New England. Non towing I get about 16 - full time 4WD and barnlike aerodynamics. Towing 2k at 70 it drops to about 13-14. Towing 4k it drops to about 11 or 12, but the boat have some significant windage, especially the big one.

from there http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/tow-vehicle-mileage/897/page1/ Also.. some info in http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/grassroots-offroader/1598/page1/ <--- Seems like ChrisV has had some success from the Classic Range Rovers. I want a range rover or landy, but I work with Brits... They love them, but will tell you 1st thing about their horrid this and that.. Mostly rust, poor upkeep(get records) http://www.landroversonly.com/forums/f40/i-really-really-want-disco-inform-me-26793/ (I didn't know Series II used premium) As for grand cherokees you mentioned early, reference Jensenman (he's got experience). I have to say that a grand cherokee saved my dad's life and for that I'll always want another. They are good. 4.0 is stout and the 5.2 is proven.. Get one without quadratrac.. trust me... with it they are pigs.

One of the reasons I love this board, I had a faint memory of someone on this board being a Land Rover fan and someone replies with a link to the thread. Thanks for the link!
While all the "dont buy them, they are unreliable" warnings scare me, the memory of the old commercial with a land rover driving on a curvy ocean side highway and then stoping to turn to climb up the 45% inner slope that was supposedly the owners driveway has always made me want one. Very little logic, mostly emotion on that one.

Grands don't weigh much more than the Cherokee and have a lot more interior room. Get a 99-04 with a 4.0, part time 4x4 (like ignorant says, avoid QuadraTrac like the plague because it turns into a royal gas hog) and the cheapo manual A/C. The 4.7 V8 has bottom end issues at higher mileage and I have seen more than one suddenly develop an appetite for oil around 90K or so. I wouldn't do one of those. The earlier ones (98- down) are pretty well worn out by now and the 5.9 V8 is not much more powerful than a 4.0 but weighs a lot more.

Their weak points:

The automatic temperature control A/C busts the blend doors. The worst part about that is you lose the defroster which can be a real PITA and then they are expensive to fix because the whole dash has to come out to replace the upper housings. The new housings bust doors just like the old ones. that's why I'd look for one with manual A/C. The worst that happens with those is the vacuum line to the controls will bust, usually under the battery box and the system will default to 'defrost' all the time. Usually the cruise will quit working at the same time since the servo is vacuum operated as well.

The rear axles can get noisy if the fluid isn't changed every 30K or so, this is because the bearings pit. Chrysler started putting synthetic fluid in them which helps but it still needs to be changed.

4.0 water pumps are made of spun sugar but they are cheap to replace.

They came 2 ways on the engine fan: with a combination of an electric fan and an engine driven fan clutch and also with an electric fan only. The electric fans puke, there was a recall on certain years so that's worth checking into. Usually if they barf the relay goes bad as well, that's under the right headlight. You have to remove the headlight and cut a hole in the bottom of the plastic grille extension and then you'll see the relay riveted to the metal bumper. Caution: the new relay MUST be riveted back into place! If this is not done, the new relay will overheat and fail very quickly. The electric only fan setup can quickly be retrofitted with a engine driven fan, if it were mine that's what I'd do.

It's pretty common to have all kinds of goofy electrical craziness start happening and the dome lights will stay on all the time. This is because there are wires running through the drivers' door harness that flex and eventually break, causing BUS system feedback.

The power window regulators break with alarming regularity. This has become so common that Dorman now has them aftermarket for pretty cheap. If you can find one with manual windows they never break.

Door lock actuators will make a honk noise, it's loud and annoying but it will continue to work a long time like that.

If you can put up with all this, the things will last a long time. The 45RFE tranny is about as sophisticated as Kid Rock on a crack binge but is pretty well bulletproof, along with the 4.0 motor.

nice write up Jensenman.

ignorant wrote: nice write up Jensenman.

Agreed. Thank you!

Jensenman wrote: Grands don't weigh much more than the Cherokee and have a lot more interior room.

Really? I was in a Grand Cherokee some years ago and marvelled at how small it was... I thought we were talking abotu the old-school full-size versions. I see the smaller, later versions and think: "soccer-mom/yuppie" Honestly, I don't see the point of buying something that small.

I've never questioned the capabilities of a Land Rover... it's just that when you're buying a part-time use truck, it pays to have something that will be stone reliable. With an older American truck, you'll pretty much get that. And it'll be stupid-cheap to fix/maintain compared to a LR. I paid over 2X your budget for my '95 Cummins (and it was the cheapest one I could find) and it has not been as reliable as my van - been towed home 4 times since I bought it in Feb. 07. The truck was an emotional purchase (I'd wanted one since they were new)... but it fails the logic test on most counts...

I guess I've just been looking at this subject for so long that my opinions are set: trucks should be trucks. Cars should be cars. Something that tries to be both will be a compromise and generally fails at both to varying degrees. The lone exception to this rule being old-school Suburbans and to some extent crew-cab pick-ups.

Grands do have less room in them than, say, my Trooper. I drive Grand Cherokees every day and when I climb in the big black box at the end of the day it seems positively cavernous at first. The Grand is roomier than the little box Cherokee, though. I feel like I'm cramped in a Cherokee.