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MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
10/28/08 11:19 a.m.

The problem with the trucks as trucks deal for me is I dont want to give up the Miata! My options are to either give up the Miata and buy a decent 4 door while keeping the Safari, or buy a tow vehicle that can haul family as well and keep the Miata. Since we alternate days of child care, the Miata will stay in heavy rotation. The Miata is the most fun thing ive ever owned and I really would prefer not to give it up. The WRX is faster, handles and stops as well, looks waaaaay cooler, makes better noises, etc... but the driving experience just doesnt compare. Once we add the turbo to the Miata I think we will be in automotive heaven.

BTW, we can make it without another 4 door if we need to, but I dont really want to. I would like the ability to work on our one 4 door without being forced to drive the non AC tow van as the kid hauler.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
10/28/08 12:09 p.m.

I'm missing something on that last post.

I'm suggesting keeping the Miata, the WRX, and buying a truck with a back seat. That gives you 2 kid vehicles plus the Miata, right?

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
10/28/08 12:39 p.m.

I think what Joshua is running into is the same thing many parents do and the same as I did: The kids take up little or no room, but their accessories will KILL you. There's not a whole lot of 4x4 minivans down South, so the next best is an SUV. A pickup with a camper cap could possibly work.

Ian F
Ian F Reader
10/28/08 12:49 p.m.
MrJoshua wrote: The problem with the trucks as trucks deal for me is I dont want to give up the Miata! My options are to either give up the Miata and buy a decent 4 door while keeping the Safari, or buy a tow vehicle that can haul family as well and keep the Miata. Since we alternate days of child care, the Miata will stay in heavy rotation. The Miata is the most fun thing ive ever owned and I really would prefer not to give it up. The WRX is faster, handles and stops as well, looks waaaaay cooler, makes better noises, etc... but the driving experience just doesnt compare. Once we add the turbo to the Miata I think we will be in automotive heaven. BTW, we can make it without another 4 door if we need to, but I dont really want to. I would like the ability to work on our one 4 door without being forced to drive the non AC tow van as the kid hauler.

I'm still confused about what you want then... this is the way I see it: you have a Safari... a perfectly good utlity vehicle... You'd like to get something similar, but with a little more utility (towing) and w/ 4WD... and working a/c...

A Land Rover (any model) will offer 4WD but less utility than the van you have now. For that matter, I can't understand why you would be looking at ANYTHING that would be less family-useful than the current van. Compact and mid-size SUV's are the biggest crock of E36 M3 ever forced onto the automotive public.

I don't understand the dislike of trucks - right now, you TRIP over used 4-door, 4WD pick-ups. Add a cap and you'll have all of the cargo hauling, and towing capacity you'll need.

Or get a Suburban... same thing... built-in cap...

I don't see how getting either of those would force you to ditch the Miata.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
10/28/08 2:15 p.m.

Anything with 4 seats that tows well will not force us to ditch the Miata. Getting a sedan or anything that doesn't tow well and keeping the Safari would because of our self imposed 3 insured car limit. Durangos just looked great on paper because of 7 seats, mid-size, available 4wd, decent power, looks, price, etc... Unfortunately it turns out they have crappy reliability.

Im not arguing that I should get a Rover, just saying they do pull some emotional strings.

I had never considered 4 door trucks and because of this thread I probably will take a look at them. Honestly though, for something seeing kid hauling use an interior seems like it would be more useful than a bed.

The Safari or a newer van of similar ilk is a phenomenal people hauler and alright tower, but only moderate off roader and just plain boring.

Honestly I would like a Ute that handles like and is about the size of an X5, Hauls stuff and people like a Suburban, Is cheap as a Durango, offroads like a Land Rover, and is reliable as the average corolla. Unfortunately this fantasy vehicle doesn't exist so I'm trying to decide what areas I want to sacrifice.

I appreciate all the debates and I am listening, even when I disagree.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
10/28/08 2:20 p.m.
SVreX wrote: I'm missing something on that last post. I'm suggesting keeping the Miata, the WRX, and buying a truck with a back seat. That gives you 2 kid vehicles plus the Miata, right?

Yes that is definitely an option.

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
10/28/08 3:01 p.m.
MrJoshua wrote: Anything with 4 seats that tows well will not force us to ditch the Miata. Getting a sedan or anything that doesn't tow well and keeping the Safari would because of our self imposed 3 insured car limit. Durangos just looked great on paper because of 7 seats, mid-size, available 4wd, decent power, looks, price, etc... Unfortunately it turns out they have crappy reliability. Im not arguing that I should get a Rover, just saying they do pull some emotional strings. I had never considered 4 door trucks and because of this thread I probably will take a look at them. Honestly though, for something seeing kid hauling use an interior seems like it would be more useful than a bed. The Safari or a newer van of similar ilk is a phenomenal people hauler and alright tower, but only moderate off roader and just plain boring. Honestly I would like a Ute that handles like and is about the size of an X5, Hauls stuff and people like a Suburban, Is cheap as a Durango, offroads like a Land Rover, and is reliable as the average corolla. Unfortunately this fantasy vehicle doesn't exist so I'm trying to decide what areas I want to sacrifice. I appreciate all the debates and I am listening, even when I disagree.

The last generation Isuzu Trooper will do all the above except it has a 5000 pound max tow capacity. 92-97 has the 3.2 SOHC 24 valve, a few had 3.2 DOHCs. A 98-up with the 3.5 has more top end snap than the earlier 3.2 versions and is definitely Toyota reliable. The 3.5 gets better mileage as well, I'd go for one of those first.

The only weak points: the early 3.5's with plastic PCV valves could have sludge problems. If it has a metal threaded PCV valve, it shouldn't have that problem. Even the plastic valve engines were OK if the oil was changed as recommended (3500-4000 miles). A bud has a 2000 3.5 TOD with the plastic valve, at 150K miles his will burn about a quart between changes.

98's and some early 99's with the factory sunroof could have a weird problem: the roof would crack at the corners of the sunroof. This was a curved crack which followed the roof inner reinforcement and it was a PITA to fix. That's why I say look at 99-up. If no sunroof, disregard all that.

The in dash 6 disc changers made by Fujitsu Ten won't accept the thicker home burned CDs and this will break the eject mechanism. Late high end Troopers with the Nakamichi units didn't do this, AFAIK. That was only available for about the last 6 months of production and was a pretty rare option.

With higher mileage, they have been known to eat catalytic converters. The good thing is that they are now available as bolt on aftermarket units.

Do NOT use aftermarket spark plugs on the 'ion sensing' module engines, this is a flat metal module on top of the intake wiith a whole bunch of little cooling fins on it. This will cause the Check engine light to come on , you'll feel a 'clunk' as it downshifts and the 'Trans Temp' light will come on. I have seen Bosch Platinums cause this. Isuzu used both NGK and Champion plugs, make sure to pull one and get the exact same plug before replacement.

The TOD (Torque On Demand) system is similar to Jeep's QuadraTrac, except that it could actually sense which axle needed more power and send it that way. It cuts gas mileage by a good bit, but is reliable as a rock. I saw two which had the sensors go bad, this makes the 'CHECK TOD' light flash but it still works fine. Go figure. Troopers were available to the end of production with part time 4x4, this has the 2H-4H-N-4L U-pattern transfer case lever sticking out next to the regular shifter. TOD's have a lever as well, but it's only 4H-4L and there's a TOD status lamp setup on the dash.

2001 and up were available as 2WD.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
10/28/08 4:30 p.m.

Who's gonna drive what?

Option #1: This will be your vehicle, and your wife drives the Rex. Kids ride primarily with your wife. Look for a truck with a backseat that you will enjoy. 4x4, whatever.

Option #2: This will be your wife's vehicle, and you'll get the fun car. Kids ride primarily with your wife. Talk her into a Suburban. Nice ones can be had right now for $3500.

Option #3: This will be your vehicle, and the kids ride primarily with you. Forget the 4x4, you need a kidmobile. Drive a Suburban.

Option #4: This will be your wife's vehicle, and the kids ride with you in the Rex. Let the wife get whatever she will enjoy as a daily driver, or let her drive the Miata, and keep the Van, since it won't be driven regularly.

If the kid taxiing really is split 50/50, then you need 2 kidmobiles (the Rex plus this one), and you probably don't really need the 4x4.

The PRIMARY kidmobile needs space to leave their junk in. Suburbans, minivans, etc.

My truck suits all the hauling needs, my macho self, etc., but it is best as a secondary kid vehicle. Unless I put a cap on it, then it would make a great tailgater, soccer team hauler, etc.

JmfnB
JmfnB GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/28/08 4:49 p.m.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
10/28/08 5:40 p.m.

We have one kidmobile right now, but split the kid hauling duties. I would prefer either two or at least one and another that is semi capable.

That astro greatly amuses me.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
10/28/08 5:42 p.m.

I have considered selling the Miata, keeping the Safari and buying an S4 928. Those little tiny back seats are basically baby seats anyway right?

Sonic
Sonic New Reader
10/28/08 7:22 p.m.

I've been quoted already and wasn't even here

I just had a talk about Discos with another friend today. Let's get one thing straight: they are not well thought out reliable cars. They are the anti-Toyota. Odd ergonomics, highly variable build quality, overly complex designs, and soul just pouring out like a british car leaking oil...wait...

But still, I love mine. It does exactly what I need it to do, and has some of the je ne sais quois that someone who's first car was a 35 year old MG requires. It is tough as nails, holds tons of people and crap inside, drives nicely, has lots of comfort and goodies and stuff, was cheap to buy and insure, has a great enthusiast community, and lots of good used part availability, will drive through 3' of water, and climb a greased flagpole.

Mine is a 99 Disco Series II SE7 (top trim level, 7 passenger). Nearly 151k miles and going strong. I've owned it for more than a year and a half, put 20k miles on it (sometimes a daily driver, sometimes it sits for months, sometimes I beat the hell out of it towing my 4500# boat). I've only had to do maintenance to it: tune up, battery, belt, fluid changes, and an A/C hose, and I don't see anything upcoming that is going to need any work.

The DiscoIIs are a much nicer car and daily driver, and more reliable than the D1s, and about 98% as good off road. From 99-mid 2001 there was still a center differential lock in the transfer case but no lever in the cockpit to engage it, but that can be added easily. They removed the CDL for late 01s, 02s and 03s, and put it back for the 04s. Major mechanicals are all fairly reliable, it's just the little stuff like sensors and crap that goes. Engine electronics are all Bosch, trans is ZF, etc.

At your price point, look at late 99s and 2000 models. There is no simple list of things to look for to be broken, as it could be nearly anything. Try to find a car that has been good and reliable and been maintained for it's whole life. I looked for a while for mine, it was a 2 enthusiast owner car that had never had any real problems, and had had plenty of preventative maintenance. Find a car with no dash lights on (the 3 amigos plague many a DII), and that has had it's front driveshaft replaced (non serviceable part, and when the U joint breaks, the driveshaft bitch slaps the transmission).

I have a hard time recommending one to someone, as they can be really hit or miss depending on how drunk the limeys putting it together were that day, but I really like mine and think you might be the right kind of crazy to enjoy one. The best online resource for them is DiscoWeb. Lots of info over there, and they won't blow smoke up your ass like most model specific boards, they fully acknowledge the pros and cons of these things, and choose to put up with the "personality" as they like the rest of it.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
10/29/08 6:06 a.m.

nice description sonic.

Wife was oogling a LWB Range Rover classic the other day... hmm.

Chris_V
Chris_V SuperDork
10/29/08 6:55 a.m.

I miss my Range Rover Classics, but the '01 RR 4.6 HSE we replaced them with is a nice driver. the Classics are rugged, but very trucklike. The later HSEs are more luxurious but with a lot more things that can go wrong on them. Still it's easy to pick up a once $70k vehicle for dirt cheap these days...

JmfnB
JmfnB GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/29/08 7:00 a.m.
MrJoshua wrote: We have one kidmobile right now, but split the kid hauling duties. I would prefer either two or at least one and another that is semi capable. That astro greatly amuses me.

Go from amused to amazed...

http://www.overlandvans.com/recreation.html

Josh you could be the Redneck King of Gainestucky!

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
10/29/08 8:55 a.m.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2000-FORD-EXCURSION-LIMITED-DIESEL-4WD-HIGH-MILEAGE_W0QQitemZ250313275003QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250313275003&_trkparms=72%3A727|39%3A1|65%3A12|240%3A1308&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

used but good bones.. 2000 Excursion Diesel for $2500

It is mislisted as a Honda CR-V.. so probably could go cheaper than it should

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
10/29/08 8:58 a.m.

Incredible. Wonder what it will sell for...

I've got a friend that milks 27 mpg out of one of those.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
10/29/08 9:21 a.m.

Jenna read through this thread last night. She digs the Disco.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
10/29/08 9:21 a.m.
ignorant wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2000-FORD-EXCURSION-LIMITED-DIESEL-4WD-HIGH-MILEAGE_W0QQitemZ250313275003QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250313275003&_trkparms=72%3A727|39%3A1|65%3A12|240%3A1308&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245 used but good bones.. 2000 Excursion Diesel for $2500 It is mislisted as a Honda CR-V.. so probably could go cheaper than it should

Definitely watching and sniping that one.

Ian F
Ian F Reader
10/29/08 9:49 a.m.

yeah... that's definitely interesting... although I have to warn you, a high-mileage diesel can burn you quickly... the "quart of oil every 1000 miles..." part scares me... my Cummins w/ 253K doesn't burn any... although if the price stays low it could pay off. As a part-time use truck, I'd run it until the powersmoke explodes (as that era of PSD tend to do...) and then swap in a yard V8 or V10. remember want I said earlier about diesels: unless you drive it a LOT, then the "diesel purchase/maintenence/repair vs. low gas mpg" cost ratio can put you upside-down very quickly.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
10/29/08 11:16 a.m.
Ian F wrote: As a part-time use truck, I'd run it until the powersmoke explodes (as that era of PSD tend to do...)

7.3 not 6.0...

If the turbo is original, I'll bet it is blowing by, and that is where most of the oil usage is from.. But I'm not super up on powerstrokes...

Now as for mods.. put the biggest exhaust on it that you can, a larger air filter and get a chip burned for economy...

It will make a good difference, 24mpg hihgway should be attainable with a 4x4

Autolex
Autolex Reader
10/29/08 12:26 p.m.

http://buckner-engineering.com/private/automotive_forsale/Kommandofahrzeug/Kommandofahrzeugforsale.html

Click Me

I think I fixed it for him

(no affiliation)

Chris_V
Chris_V SuperDork
10/29/08 12:37 p.m.
Sonic wrote: But still, I love mine. It does exactly what I need it to do, and has some of the je ne sais quois that someone who's first car was a 35 year old MG requires. It is tough as nails, holds tons of people and crap inside, drives nicely, has lots of comfort and goodies and stuff, was cheap to buy and insure, has a great enthusiast community, and lots of good used part availability, will drive through 3' of water, and climb a greased flagpole.

This is the crux of it. These, as well as the Range Rover Classics (like my old LWB) are absolutely incredible vehicles on pavement and off. They do come with idiosyncracies, biut overall, after a few years and three different rigs, I don't find them any less reliable than any other used vehicle. And when they do need to be worked on, they are easy to work on and actually pretty cheap.

here's my last one:

And here's my current one:

They tow excellent, they are rugged as hell offroad, and yet comfortable on road. I got 16 mpg highway with the '95, 14 towing the trailer, and I've got a best of 20 mpg hwy in the '01. But considering they don't see a huge number of miles a year, they are pretty cheap to drive, even when gas was $4 a gallon.

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
10/29/08 12:49 p.m.

The guy who's the grand poobah of the Jensen Healey Preservation Society has a Range Rover. You should have read his posts from the time the power locks quit working and the estimate was $1200.00. He still has it, but locks the doors by hand.

Chris_V
Chris_V SuperDork
10/29/08 2:15 p.m.

I've found with both the Rangies and the BMW 740il, if you talk to the dealer or a decent indie mechanic, costs to repair anything on these cars wil be astronomical. if you have to get an estimate on a repair, you will be hosed.

The guy we bought the '01 HSE from has dealer reciepts for replacing the brakes on it (rotors, pads, and sensors). he spent almost 3 grand on the job. The parts are $400 total at Atlantic British, and take maybe a couple hours to do.

Estimate to do the water pump on my BMW was $1300 from the dealer. My cost to do it? Under $250.

I read cost horror stories with a grain of salt anymore. People that have to go to the dealer get raped.

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