Thinking about adding an engine.

Been flying gliders for a while and enjoy it, but retired; I'd like to do things with the wife. OK, I'm a whack.

Spinning around drilling holes in the sky is fun and I really, really thrive on the challenge of staying up, but some days I just want to get from point A to B. Grab the bride, go to lunch; go see the kid 2.5 hours away by car or half that time flying. Long weekend on Long Island? Why not? I don't need a crew to launch, don't need a tow plane to get up, and if I get the urge the Club has four sailplanes I can use.

I will be flying an Aeronca Champ to get a Light Sport Pilot sign off. From there it's a hop, skip and a jump to the full ticket. Buying something, I would lean toward the light sport end of things. Two people and an overnight bag, but it's light enough to drop into Farmer Brown's field if things go south.

Because it will have to sleep outside, I prefer metal or fiberglass wings. Rag wings are OK, but one bad storm will create many cold lonely nights in the shop recovering them.

Thoughts, experiences?

Dan

Allegro 2000

I've got nothing but I'd love to hear others' experiences.

Although I’ve had a passionate desire to build a plane since I was a little kid, the fact that the ratio of GA aircraft to the number of active pilots keeps increasing, the planes have become irresistibly cheap.

In terms of LSA, how about an Ercoupe…dirt cheap due to poor payload which it sounds like you can live with…also dirt cheap as pilots consider the automated rudder function insulting but it's actually kind of nice (stretch your legs out on cross countries…small kids have access to all flight controls…besides, about have been converted to have rudder pedals)…about half have been metalized so it wouldn’t need to be hangered…certified for open cockpit flying (silk scarf time baby)…rare and interesting enough to park in airshows rather than at airshows.

You can buy really nice specimens all day for 18K to 24K…easy button from my prospective.

How far and where you looking at travelling with the plane?

In my experience, you need something that makes a minimum of about 130 kts true to be something to cover serious distance. Slower may be acceptable if there are special circumstances-- no direct roads, high traffic, eliminate the ferry, landing on the beach etc.

Unfortunately, that kind of performance is right on the edge of 180-200 horsepower. There's a pretty significant step change in operating cost once you cross that 200 hp threshold.

You (and your fellow travellers) also need to be willing to travel in something with about the same climate control capability as an air-cooled Beetle.

I really enjoyed travelling when I had a Cutlass RG, but even at those 130 kt speeds, making distance while moving upwind in Kansas was a challenge.

Now, my Dad's Glasair Super IIS travels real nice at 160+ kts on roughly 200 hp, but you have to fit.

Hi Karacticus,

914Driver said he was looking for a LSA (Light Sport Aircraft) so, maximum of 2 seats – 1,320 maximum gross take-off weight – 45 knot maximum stall speed and he said his typical trips would be ~150 miles (inferred from 2.5 drive) and he wanted short / rough field emergency landing capability for added safety.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve flown a Cutlass RG and I love the Glasair but those suggestions are a lot more plane than he needs / wants.

Watching.. I always find planes interesting.

This Ercoupe is $18k, not sure about the funky rudder controls. How do you do a slip?

I looked at other Kit and Experimental planes but some require too much runway. Did you know the cool looking Long EZ climbs at about 400 ft. per minute? I do that all the time in a glider.

Sonex

or

Zenith

Two good modern, fast, cheap, reliable LSA choices that can take some "unprepared surface" take-off and landing

I don’t have fist hand Ercoupe experience, I’ve just been keeping an eye on them over the years. My understanding is that you can’t slip them, only crab them, but they have a robust undercarriage giving them a better crosswind landing coefficient than most of their competition….look up the numbers, they’re totally respectable.

Again, about half of them have been STC’d to include rudder pedals if you want that but you’d be eating precious payload and you’re already close to LSA weight limits so I’d just stick to an unmod’d set-up.

The big pro for getting one with the rudder pedal conversion is that some FAA examiners will put a limitation on your license to only fly auto-controlled rudder aircraft if you do your flight review in a Ercoupe…effectively, this means you can only fly an Ercoupe since every other GA aircraft have rudder pedals.

Whatever, that wouldn’t stop me from getting one…just accept the limitation, carefully pick a nice examiner, or freshen up your rudder skills in a 152 or something like that every two years and do your flight review in it to avoid the limitation.

not in the budget, but what a fab solution:

Those are cool, but don't taxi well Nderwater.

RX, I may be able to live with the limitation as I won't be buying another plane after this but would prefer not to be limited.

Considered a Sky Arrow but it reminds me too much of an ultra-light. Tandem seating allows you to punch a smaller hole through the air, more efficient but reminds me of a training glider.

It's me and the bride for short hops within a 200 mile radius, most likely under 75. (sounds like a lot, but it's 30 - 40 minutes in the air.)

Basin Harbor on Lake Champlain, lake to the left, runway center, restaurant on right; that kind of stuff.

Sky Arrow

I would love to learn how to fly. I am following just for enjoyment

Not to thread jack, but just a question. Why is it a majority of the small private aircraft are two seaters? I noticed someone said LSA are only two seats but Cozys are 4 seats and are LSA aren't they?

Load capacity and cost.

What a plane can carry is generally dictated by the size of the engine (ability to climb is important mmmkay ). Aircraft engines can be very expensive (a very common 172 Cessna engine will cost around 20 grand!) and smaller is cheaper.

Many of these smaller aircraft will barely push 100hp (low RPM, lots of torque generally) so it's a simple mater of physics that you will not be able to climb with 600 lbs of flesh in the plane. Larger engines means more fuel burn, which mean more fuel, and also more structure to handle the power which all add weight, and ability to climb is directly related to weight.

And no one mentioned a CUB .

fanfoy wrote: Sonex or Zenith Two good modern, fast, cheap, reliable LSA choices that can take some "unprepared surface" take-off and landing

The Sonex is a bit of a handful to fly, but is an amazing value for its performance. I'd be looking into something from Rans, I love the S-7S.

iceracer wrote: And no one mentioned a CUB .

Hi iceracer,

That’s because Cub’s come with a huge “Toyota” tax.

The Piper Cub was designed by a guy named Clarence Taylor and William Piper, an affluent banker, financed the commercialization of what we know today as the Piper Cub.

As you know, the Cub was a phenomenal success but after many years of production, Taylor approached Piper with his next generation design. Piper didn’t see a need to change the design as the Cubs were still selling well but Taylor, being an airplane guy not a money guy said berk you and went off to form his own company called Taylor Craft.

Bottom line, it’s hard to argue that the Taylor Craft isn’t superior to the Piper Cub since it was the result of lessons learned by the same designer but Cubs today sell for about three times the price of a Taylor Craft because they’re so iconic.

So, Cubs aren’t a Grassroots solution...I haven't checked in a while but I think decent Cubs are fetching north of 50K.

They only have two seats because they can only have two seats. Otherwise, its not LSA legal. A 4 seat Cozy isn't legal, but a 2 seat Cozy is. But it must be built that way. You cant jut rip out seats and call it legal. Same thing with weight. If the aircraft was built at XX lbs, that's the lightest the FAA recognizes. You can't go backwards.

Decent J-3s are $35,000. If you love Cubs, build your own. Wag-Aero Cubby.

This might ruin your life

Cubs are also cloth covered which the OP said he's trying to avoid. Simple aircraft though with a lot of grassroots mods done to some over the years. Took part of my A&P oral/practical on one.
Small planes are inexpensive to buy, relatively. The big $$ comes in keeping up the avionics package. Maintenance can be expensive too. Engine and prop TBO's will take a big chunk out of your bank account. Let alone annual maintenance costs. Reason I strayed away from civil aviation and into cars. Cheaper. Believe it or not. Don't want to discourage, if you can swing it by all means do it.

BTW, if its registered as EXPERIMENTAL, you, the owner/builder can do your own annual inspections.

I don't think so, my DG-300 is Experimental and I can't do it. I do all the prep but not allowed to sign the logbook. With sailplanes anyway, the Experimental stamp is due to the way it came here from Europe. They could be a different class but it takes too many FAA hoops.

Dan

Luscombes qualify as Light Sport and even though it's a 65hp it flies well and much faster than a Cub with a 65; different wing shape. It's also a metal ship that ticks all the boxes for me.

The one below is $14,500. Going to ask $30k for the DG.

Just make sure you can dance on the rudder peddles. Luscombes like to swap ends in a hurry.

In reply to 914Driver:

Nope. I was referencing amateur build aircraft.

Per EAA:

A condition inspection is the equivalent of an "annual" for a type certificated aircraft. FAR Part 43 specifically states that it does not apply to experimental aircraft.

Who can perform a Condition Inspection? The inspection can be performed by any licensed A&P mechanic, an FAA Approved Repair Station, or by the builder of the airplane provided the builder obtains a "Repairman's Certificate" from the FAA. Note that unlike an annual for a type certificated aircraft, the A&P mechanic does NOT have to have his/her "Inspection Authorization". 

EDT wrote:

fanfoy wrote: Sonex or Zenith Two good modern, fast, cheap, reliable LSA choices that can take some "unprepared surface" take-off and landing

The Sonex is a bit of a handful to fly, but is an amazing value for its performance. I'd be looking into something from Rans, I love the S-7S.

Forgot about Rans, but another good choice.

First time I hear about the Sonex being hard to fly. What are your sources and what did they say? I am curious because I am seriously thinking of building myself one in a few (or many) years.