To piggyback off of Poop's speeding ticket thread...

I got one recently as well.

On the way home from MATG, was coming off the last corner of The Dragon, just coasting in 3rd gear (downhill, driving miss daisy, didn't feel like abusing my brakes anymore).

GPS said speed limit was 40mph, i was at about 4krpms in 3rd gear, going 37-38mph. (GPS is 2 years out of date, which will be important later.)

As i come around the corner, i see a speed trap a quarter mile down the road. After checking to see if my current speed was flashing red on the GPS (it wasn't), i continued at the same speed, watching the officers at the trap.

As i drew near, officer ran out into the road and motioned me over. I obliged. (Officer never radar'd me, i had a clear line of sight the whole time.)

Asked for license and registration, gave it to him, he then asked me why i was going so fast.

Confused, i asked "What do you mean, officer?"

He then proceeded to tell me that i was going exactly 51mph. When i informed him that i was going 37mph, and explained the math behind 4000rpms in 3rd gear (because 4000rpms in 5th gear would have been FAR more than 51mph, so it's not like i had my gears mixed up) and how it was impossible that i was going 51mph with that knowledge, he then told me:

"No, you're wrong. This car will do that."

Interesting, so he knows more about my car than myself. Neat.

I asked him if he had radar'd me, and he said "No, we're trained to determine speed by sight and sound."

Interesting, so now he can tell how fast i'm going by what my car sounds like while it heads straight towards him with no side to side references.

At this point, i resign myself to my fate and just let him write the ticket...

... for 51mph in a 30. (GPS was out of date.) I also notice that on the ticket, he's written that he "was alerted to my speed of 51mph by the radar gun going off and displaying 51mph" (Or some variation of that. I can't actually read MY copy of the ticket because literally NONE of it came through on the transfer paper.)

I asked to see the radar gun, since he was writing it on the ticket, he MUST have gunned me.

"Are you doubting that we got you on radar?"

"Well... yes. Especially since you said not 5 minutes ago that you didn't radar me."

"Well, you can't see it, sorry."

"Uhh.... ok."

"But really, we just make up these numbers anyways."

Now, i know he thought he was making a funny, but unfortunately it's not so funny when it's the truth. About this time, a group of Mustangs went flying back the other direction going AT LEAST 50-60mph, and the officers still standing around just waved at them. Because... good 'ol boys driving good 'ol 'Murican auto-mobeeeeeeeeeeelz. They're good 'ol boys. I'm just a young punk disrespecting the country by driving this here piece of Jap Crap.

Seething but still remaining polite, i took my motherberkeleying ticket and got the berkeley on my motherberkeleying way home.

Called TN last week to find my fees and penalties. $256. Ok, not so bad. Cheaper than missing a day's worth of work and gas. I'll just pay that and make sure i don't spend any more money in TN than i have to, ever again. Definitely staying on the NC side from now on.

So then i ask how many points this will be, as i have 0 points on my license, and i'd like to keep it that way for insurance purposes.

"Well... since you're in Indiana, we can't really tell. It'd be 4 points here, but you can take a driving school and those points will be void, and your ticket will only be $106."

Ok well...in Indiana, we have a deferment program if you have a clean license that you can pay an extra $50 or something and it gets dropped to a non-moving violation for no points, you just have to not get a ticket in the next 6 months. No big deal, i haven't had a moving violation since 2006, i think i can handle it. So i ask her if TN has anything similar.

"No sir, i've never heard of that."

Ok... so how do i figure out what will happen with my IN license, since TN can't even tell me how many points will show up, or if they'll even send it to IN in the first place?

"Sir, i don't know any of that."

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

Called IN, nobody knows anything.

So what the hell am i supposed to do? My insurance is cheap, and i like it that way. My license has 0 points, i'd like to keep it that way. The cop is a berkeleying liar, and i'd like for him to be fired, but if i can get away with just paying $256 and muttering under my breath and nothing else, i'd like to just do that.

What do? I'm hesitant to go down there and fight the ticket, since it seems my GoPro battery had died earlier that morning, so i have nothing other than "he said she said" to go on. Since the speed limit WAS truly 30mph, i WAS speeding, but sure as HELL wasn't going 51mph. Penalty for 7mph over is wildly different than penalty for 21mph over.

Dont agree to anything without getting it in writing.

Cops generally cam everything these days. Unfortunately, it's in another state so going to court is a bitch- but that's you're only real way out of this one.

Unless this guy was running a super spy button cam, nothing is on camera. We were pretty far away from the bikes, and he didn't even have a helmet on. There were no cop cars there, just bikes.

I believe you can file a "motion of discovery" with the court. I'm no legal expert but I believe this would require them to produce the Radar gun info, officer's training info, as well as the dash cam footage. If the conversation went like you said, then it sounds like the officer would be up a paddle without a creek.

But then again, I've never filed a motion of discovery.

(insert friend story here) Buddy of mine did when he got pulled over on a motorcycle. We had some good times watching that footage. Lots of overreaction on the officer's part + no speeding on my buddies part = hilarity ensues

In my buddies case the officer was in the middle of writing a ticket when he saw my buddy coming down the on-ramp on the opposite side of the freeway (it was pretty obvious that he had seen the officer and was nursing it down the on-ramp). The officer threw everything and RAN to the car, floored it across the overpass, down the onoramp, flew through traffic to catch my buddy putting down the slow lane. Then lot of yelling on the officers part to a very stunned looking motorcycle rider.

Good times.

-Bill

edit: just read about the distance to the motorcycles. not "good times"

cops are dicks

/thread

Swank Force One wrote: Unless this guy was running a super spy button cam, nothing is on camera. We were pretty far away from the bikes, and he didn't even have a helmet on. There were no cop cars there, just bikes.

The radar, or lack thereof, would be though... Right?

Then sue the department in small claims court for your gas money as well as court costs and loss of income on account of their lying.

Also, note to self: set up a camera in your car. Even if you aren't allowed to use it, they can't say anything about you using it up to the stop.

I don't think lack of radar is enough to get the ticket thrown out unless i could prove that he didn't gun me. The "training" they receive to determine speed by sight IS real, though it doesn't mean that they're good at it. (Clearly they're not.)

What would be the kicker would be if there were video of him NOT radaring me, considering what he put on the ticket.

I'll call tomorrow and see what i have to do to file a "Motion of Discovery."

I'm ASSuming that if i file that, it has to be BEFORE the court date (September 9th, yep, i've put this off a little bit, life has been well... life.), and that it would cement me having to actually drive 6 hours to the court date, correct?

DASHCAM!!!! Better, unobtrusive 808 that the cops won't notice. Probably illegal to film them....OTOH, the PoPo will probably back down if they think a statement like "we just make up these numbers" is going to make the evening news.

Simplest solution, burn tennessee down

This is one reason I enjoy driving a minivan as my DD.

yamaha wrote: Simplest solution, burn tennessee down

It would probably improve phone reception :)

JoeyM wrote:

yamaha wrote: Simplest solution, burn tennessee down

It would probably improve phone reception :)

How would moldy cauliflower improve phone reception?

Take the defensive driving course. Cost you much less than anything else and no points. If TN's process is anything like TX's (which it probably ain't), you can apply for the course, pay for the charge, and take the course all online in the comfort of your abode.

Ahem, I'm doing that now on a ticket I got here.

Basil Exposition wrote: Take the defensive driving course. Cost you much less than anything else and no points. If TN's process is anything like TX's (which it probably ain't), you can apply for the course, pay for the charge, and take the course all online in the comfort of your abode. Ahem, I'm doing that now on a ticket I got here.

That's the thing... i don't live in TN, and they said it was an in-person class. I'm not going to be able to take off work and go down to TN for a class anyways.

I guess what i'm asking is: Do i pay it, and hope my insurance rates don't go up since it's pretty clear that i'm not a habitual law breaker? Do i pay it, not give a berkeley? Do i go down and fight it? Do i hire a lawyer (is that going to be ALL the money?)?

Or does anyone have any sort of tips of WHO i need to talk to figure out what's actually going to happen if i just pay the damn thing instead of listening to a bunch of "I don't knows" from both IN and TN?

In reply to Swank Force One:

Contact a lawyer down there and just ask some questions about it all. See if they'd be interested in the case in general.

Your insurance company doesn't scan your record every time you pay a premium. I've had a ticket or two on mine for a few years with no change. It shows up if I get a new quote, though. Just FYI.

Traffic attn in Tennessee. They usually don't charge for a consult.

Spinout007 wrote: Traffic attn in Tennessee. They usually don't charge for a consult.

Traffic Attention?

I always hear about horror stories about the TN side of the Dragon, it sux. This case sounds like a massive abuse of power and sadly comes down to he said vs. he said. The judge will believe the man with a badge and you pay $$$$$.

TN and the other states in the area could get so much revenue off this area with hotel taxes, park fees etc. Why try to get though traffic tickets? This just sours everybody to the place and they don't come back!

Why is there an evil clown face in that mushroom cloud?

z31maniac wrote: Why is there an evil clown face in that mushroom cloud?

Because it was built by Dr. It for the next Bond movie?

Swank Force One wrote:

Spinout007 wrote: Traffic attn in Tennessee. They usually don't charge for a consult.

Traffic Attention?

Damn phone. Attorney. Attorney damnit, Damn autocorrect.

Lawyer or show up in court (which I know probably isn't feasible.) NFW "It looked like he was going fast" will hold up in court. In Georgia (according to EVERY cop who's pulled me over in the last several years:) They are REQUIRED to let you SEE the speed on the gun, AND to check the calibration.

I had one "pace" me in an unmarked vehicle doing 70 in a 45 last year; only reason I was going so fast is because he was INCHES from my bumper. Pulls me, reads me the riot act, says "YOU WERE GOING WAAAAAAY TO FAST!" I say "Yeah? Is that what the radar gun said?" and pointed to the detector. He says he was pacing me. I say "I think you and I both know how much water that'll hold in court." He keeps me there another 10 minutes, then comes up to the car and wants to have the little berkeleying "Father-son" talk with me. No ticket.

Cop is confident you won't fight it because you've got an out-of-town tag. Lawyer will probably charge $200-$300 and get the whole thing dropped, I WOULD THINK. Worth a quick phone call. Just keep in mind, once it's on your record, if you ever get in a wreck where speed is a factor, they'll probably bring it up in court.

poopshovel wrote: He says he was pacing me. I say "I think you and I both know how much water that'll hold in court."

I always thought that was a legit way of making absolutely sure you're speeding. Is that not the case?