Take a drive down and fight it. At worst you get another trip to conquer the dragon.
Take a drive down and fight it. At worst you get another trip to conquer the dragon.
Lawyer up with a lawyer that does business in the town/county court where your hearing will be held The odds are VERY good you're going to have to pay them money, but you can likely get it reduced to an equipment violation or something.
poopshovel wrote: Lawyer or show up in court (which I know probably isn't feasible.) NFW "It looked like he was going fast" will hold up in court. In Georgia (according to EVERY cop who's pulled me over in the last several years:) They are REQUIRED to let you SEE the speed on the gun, AND to check the calibration. I had one "pace" me in an unmarked vehicle doing 70 in a 45 last year; only reason I was going so fast is because he was INCHES from my bumper. Pulls me, reads me the riot act, says "YOU WERE GOING WAAAAAAY TO FAST!" I say "Yeah? Is that what the radar gun said?" and pointed to the detector. He says he was pacing me. I say "I think you and I both know how much water that'll hold in court." He keeps me there another 10 minutes, then comes up to the car and wants to have the little berkeleying "Father-son" talk with me. No ticket. Cop is confident you won't fight it because you've got an out-of-town tag. Lawyer will probably charge $200-$300 and get the whole thing dropped, I WOULD THINK. Worth a quick phone call. Just keep in mind, once it's on your record, if you ever get in a wreck where speed is a factor, they'll probably bring it up in court.
The problem is that he lied and put on the ticket that he radar'd me. I know he didn't, since i didn't see him do it, and like you, my detector didn't go off. (And it had gone off every other time i was gunned the whole weekend, at least 8 times.)
I CAN show up in court, i'm just trying to weigh how much of a waste of time it's going to be.
clownkiller wrote: Take a drive down and fight it. At worst you get another trip to conquer the dragon.
This is true, unfortunately it would be in the MX6 or Cherokee this time, neither of which are presently equipped to be the least bit enjoyable on that road.
Swank Force One wrote: The problem is that he lied and put on the ticket that he radar'd me. I know he didn't, since i didn't see him do it, and like you, my detector didn't go off. (And it had gone off every other time i was gunned the whole weekend, at least 8 times.) I CAN show up in court, i'm just trying to weigh how much of a waste of time it's going to be.
I would do it just out of principle.
1988RedT2 wrote:JoeyM wrote:How would moldy cauliflower improve phone reception?yamaha wrote: Simplest solution, burn tennessee downIt would probably improve phone reception :)
I have a buddy who lives in Chattanooga, and his calls are ALWAYS dropping. I've sometimes mentioned that if there were fewer hills.....
Brett_Murphy wrote: Lawyer up with a lawyer that does business in the town/county court where your hearing will be held The odds are VERY good you're going to have to pay them money, but you can likely get it reduced to an equipment violation or something.
This.
You know what they say about the client of the person who represents themselves.
Swank Force One wrote: I don't think lack of radar is enough to get the ticket thrown out unless i could prove that he didn't gun me. The "training" they receive to determine speed by sight IS real, though it doesn't mean that they're good at it. (Clearly they're not.) What would be the kicker would be if there were video of him NOT radaring me, considering what he put on the ticket. I'll call tomorrow and see what i have to do to file a "Motion of Discovery." I'm ASSuming that if i file that, it has to be BEFORE the court date (September 9th, yep, i've put this off a little bit, life has been well... life.), and that it would cement me having to actually drive 6 hours to the court date, correct?
the "training" on "guessing" is real, but its pretty hokey. they have a guy radar cars coming over and down a hill, rook guesses at the speed, he has like 6 tries and has to be within 10 mph. 51mph is a bit....precise for guessing games, probably why he alleges that the radar warned him of your offending speed rather than saying he estimated it by sight. obviously mr officer doesn't know much about significant digits.
Strizzo wrote:Swank Force One wrote: I don't think lack of radar is enough to get the ticket thrown out unless i could prove that he didn't gun me. The "training" they receive to determine speed by sight IS real, though it doesn't mean that they're good at it. (Clearly they're not.) What would be the kicker would be if there were video of him NOT radaring me, considering what he put on the ticket. I'll call tomorrow and see what i have to do to file a "Motion of Discovery." I'm ASSuming that if i file that, it has to be BEFORE the court date (September 9th, yep, i've put this off a little bit, life has been well... life.), and that it would cement me having to actually drive 6 hours to the court date, correct?the "training" on "guessing" is real, but its pretty hokey. they have a guy radar cars coming over and down a hill, rook guesses at the speed, he has like 6 tries and has to be within 10 mph. 51mph is a bit....precise for guessing games, probably why he alleges that the radar warned him of your offending speed rather than saying he estimated it by sight. obviously mr officer doesn't know much about significant digits.
I bet he knows.... but the penalties are different for 50 in a 30 vs. 51 in a 30. Get my drift? 
Show up in court, and DOCUMENT your proof of speed. Take a video of your RPM/Speed, show how well you remember the whole incident, recount the discussion about the radar detector. They are figuring that you are a tourist and can't make it to court. You might cause enough doubt to get something. I would not ask for a reduction in cost (they want their $$$ more than anything) but ask for it to be wiped from the record.
yamaha wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: Contact a lawyer down there and just ask some questions about it all. See if they'd be interested in the case in general.
whenry on here is a Tn lawyer .... PM him ?
I'd echo the advice to get in touch with TN lawyer who deals with this all the time. I was pulled over in upstate NY for 77 in a 55 years ago. I was doing about 70, but there's no way I was doing 77. I paid the ticket, but got burned because my insurance jumped for 3 years (20+ over = automatic insurance hike). In hindsight, I should have fought the ticket (or at least had the speed reduced), and I would have been much better off in the long run.
pinchvalve wrote: Show up in court, and DOCUMENT your proof of speed. Take a video of your RPM/Speed, show how well you remember the whole incident, recount the discussion about the radar detector. They are figuring that you are a tourist and can't make it to court. You might cause enough doubt to get something. I would not ask for a reduction in cost (they want their $$$ more than anything) but ask for it to be wiped from the record.
how 'bout just ignoring the ticket .... IN won't arrest you for failure to appear in a Tn court would they ? ('course you probably can't take a chance of returning to Tn for several yrs 
)
wbjones wrote:pinchvalve wrote: Show up in court, and DOCUMENT your proof of speed. Take a video of your RPM/Speed, show how well you remember the whole incident, recount the discussion about the radar detector. They are figuring that you are a tourist and can't make it to court. You might cause enough doubt to get something. I would not ask for a reduction in cost (they want their $$$ more than anything) but ask for it to be wiped from the record.how 'bout just ignoring the ticket .... IN won't arrest you for failure to appear in a Tn court would they ? ('course you probably can't take a chance of returning to Tn for several yrs
States are moving to a system where they share information. I'd rather not chance it.
I would drive down and fight it on principle.
Just paid a speeding ticket that was reduced to a "Civil Penalty" court clerk said I had to show up because I have a Commercial drivers license. If I had a regular license she could have done it over the phone. Civil penalties don't show up as moving violations.
No guilty plea? They'd have to show proof of evidence of the speed, right? No radar=no evidence?
This all sounds like it's a cut and dry 100% drop for a local lawyer for $150.
There's gotta be a forum of guys who are local to the Dragon. Start asking for traffic lawyers recommendations from them. I'd wager this is not a unique scenario to that particular stretch of road.
It's not a unique situation. It happened to me in my car (though I was going fast about 2 seconds before I slowed and turned the corner where he was). TN side of the dragon, I was doing a little over 40 in a 35 when he could see me, no radar, waved me over and I heard 3 different speeds before the speed written on the ticket was the 4th different number. His quoted speed ended up in the 60's, and I think my fine was even the same $256 fee. I knew driving back up and fighting it would cost more, so I just bit the bullet :/
Name of the game in Blount County Tennessee...
Your hosed anyway. The only question is how much you were speeding. You were going 40 in a 30.
Even if they didn't radar you and admit to such, you proof requires you to incriminate yourself to a lesser degree.
If you go to court, the judge is just going to say "Boy!!!, you know you were speeding, we know were speeding. Guilty as charged".
Points rarely transfer from state to state, unless there is a reciprocal agreement. I doubt there is in this case. Pay the fine and let it go. Don't plan to change your insurance for 3 years and you should be ok. A touch lighter in the wallet, but OK.
There has to be a way to berk with them... Magnet on the side of your car with some bogus name "Herp-a-Derp's Medical Transport Service" or something, and tell them that you are required by federal law to record every second that the vehicle is running with both audio and video.
Probably wouldn't work though.
Swank Force One wrote:poopshovel wrote: Lawyer or show up in court (which I know probably isn't feasible.) NFW "It looked like he was going fast" will hold up in court. In Georgia (according to EVERY cop who's pulled me over in the last several years:) They are REQUIRED to let you SEE the speed on the gun, AND to check the calibration. I had one "pace" me in an unmarked vehicle doing 70 in a 45 last year; only reason I was going so fast is because he was INCHES from my bumper. Pulls me, reads me the riot act, says "YOU WERE GOING WAAAAAAY TO FAST!" I say "Yeah? Is that what the radar gun said?" and pointed to the detector. He says he was pacing me. I say "I think you and I both know how much water that'll hold in court." He keeps me there another 10 minutes, then comes up to the car and wants to have the little berkeleying "Father-son" talk with me. No ticket. Cop is confident you won't fight it because you've got an out-of-town tag. Lawyer will probably charge $200-$300 and get the whole thing dropped, I WOULD THINK. Worth a quick phone call. Just keep in mind, once it's on your record, if you ever get in a wreck where speed is a factor, they'll probably bring it up in court.The problem is that he lied and put on the ticket that he radar'd me. I know he didn't, since i didn't see him do it, and like you, my detector didn't go off. (And it had gone off every other time i was gunned the whole weekend, at least 8 times.) I CAN show up in court, i'm just trying to weigh how much of a waste of time it's going to be.
Hang up interwebz. Call lawyer. Seriously dude. It's a 5 minute call. You'll have to leave a message. Make it brief. Unlike the GODDAMNED PIECE OF E36 M3 WORTHLESS berkeleyING GOVERNMENT, the lawyer will return your call promptly, as he wants to work for you. I have to think that the laws in TN are similar to the laws in GA, and they have to provide proof that they actually clocked you...of course...I could be patently wrong, which is why you need to talk to a lawyer for five minutes, instead of a bunch of car forum dorks for an hour.
YOU (or the lawyer) can obtain records on if/when officer droopy dog checked out this imaginary radar gun, and when it was last calibrated.
Gotta fight the power, dawg. If you make less than whatever the fine was/day, and it takes less than a day of your time, you berkeleying win...I mean, ESPECIALLY since you're legitimately not guilty.
If you go to court, the judge is just going to say "Boy!!!, you know you were speeding, we know were speeding. Guilty as charged".
That has absolutely never once happened in more than a dozen tickets for me. Sometimes they reduce the fine and drop the points. Sometimes they just drop the points (most of the time.) Most of the time you can show up early, talk to the DA, and never even SEE the judge. The judge wants to get the goddamned money and go the berkeley home. It's a traffic ticket, not a murder case.
Never done it on a speeding ticket, but did it on a rolling stop sign ticket: Cop didn't show. Cop said on ticket he got me on camera rolling through stop sign. There's no berkeleying way he could have. DA wants me to come to his office so we can review the in-car together. I say "berkeley that" (not literally) and request a jury trial.
Ticket thrown out. No fines. No record. No plea. Just a polite "Get the berkeley outta here" from the judge.
NOW, if you PAY the thing, it's on your record, so the next time you get one...or a DUI, reckless driving, etc., they COULD use that as evidence against you in court, and the judge may be a little less lenient with sentencing.
Listen to Poop, and get an attorney, I would suggest not attending yourself, small towns have a way of having people detained after they get agitated in court.
Van Wert does this on DUIs all the time.
Have an attorney do his job while you do yours
It's 100% because your a Yankee, the locals hate us. I haven't been hassled since I put TN tags on my vehicles. In fact I got stopped for somewhere north of 40 over one morning and the ticket was about the same as yours and 2 points on my L's.
Years ago Indiana did not reciprocate with Ohio. And there is a reason why I haven't been back to Indiana for a very, very long time.
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