Toll Roads, love them or hate them?

Overall I am in favor of them, bearing in mind that I live in Illinois where they generally work decently and we've had open road tolling since Inmate Blago put them in about 20 years ago. I like toll roads under 3 conditions: 

1. They're maintained, and they move traffic efficiently
2. They have open road tolling - don't make me stop to pay, it is 2022
3. They remain under public ownership, or else the lease agreement is for 10 years at a time to avoid boneheaded decisions like Chicago's privatization of the parking meters*

I don't like them in the sense that it is a regressive tax, and that it adds another possible layer of government scrutiny via the toll cameras (that you really need to make open road tolling work) that I don't like. Not that I think anything will happen because of that, but I don't like it nonetheless. 

*Note that Chicago also privatized the Chicago Skyway tollroad, and that one does not seem to have been such a blunder, but that remains to be seen as they have 80 years left in it.

ProDarwin said:

mtn said:

APEowner said:

I don't have a problem with the concept of toll roads but I do have a problem with the fact that they work differently in different parts of the country, the signage is often unclear and there's no standard way to pay for them.

 

E-Z Pass and I-Pass are pretty universal. 

19 out of 50 isnt exactly universal

19 out of 27 is closer though. I should have said "pretty universal in the midwest and eastern United States". 

Peabody said:

In reply to adam525i :

There was a time when you could make a case for beating the traffic. But it's gotten so expensive I don't know why anybody uses it anymore. I still have my transponder, but I doubt I've used it in five or more years now

Only good case for using it is if you're driving to something you absolutely can't be late for like catching a flight, because sometimes the 401 gets fairly random apocalyptic traffic jams that can leave you helplessly stuck in place for an hour or more on what would normally be a 1-hour trip. Luckily I only discovered that the hard way when picking up family from the airport and a taxi was still an option.

I also hear the 407 makes a good Rich Guy Weekend Wangan (Edit: Don't try this with any mere mortals' car, the OPP is much more likely to give chase if they're not afraid that you'll warp out at Ludicrous Speed...)

In reply to GameboyRMH :

I have friends that used to do nightly 407 runs on their bikes back when it was new and empty.  Never got chased

The only one I've encountered in the last 20 years was Ohio, which I'm ok with.  The condition is much better than most roads, and they are keeping it decent.  On top of that, the stops are regular enough and far nicer than rest areas.  I'll have to pay more attention, but I also didn't think the price of food, gas, and stuff was gouging.

It's interesting that the PA pike is looked down on (it's been a really long time since we've driven it), as I80 across the state is pretty darned nice.  To have the free crossing better than the pretty darned expensive one is odd.

Other than that, we take the train to Chicago now- avoiding those tolls.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Last time we ran the PA turnpike from end to end was about 6 years ago and even then it was $48 for a car. 

In reply to GameboyRMH :

I don't normally advocate toll evasion, but in the case of the 407 I encourage it...  If you make 20$/hour It costs a full day's wage before taxes travelling from end to end both directions. After taxes it is more than a full day's wage.

I have heard tales of people that use plate covers that darken at the push of a button, to avoid the 407 cameras.

If you are an infrequent user and smart about it there is no reason one couldn't get away with it indefinitely. I wouldn't use such methods if one was a frequent user or used the same ramps on a regular schedule. 

drsmooth said:

If you are an infrequent user and smart about it there is no reason one couldn't get away with it indefinitely.

Like lowering the tailgate on your pickup on the way home from the motocross races.

I've never done that

There was a toll bridge here, that had tolls on it until it was paid for and then the tolls went away. For quite a while. Then they decided they wanted more money and put tolls back up on the bridge that's already been paid for. They also took out carpool lanes on some of the local freeways and changed them into flexprice toll lanes with 70% of the money going to the outfit in Texas that our socalled representatives gave the contract to. Where that 30% that supposedly goes to road maintenance goes? They have made it deliberately impossible to tell, so I can only assume it's going into someone's pocket. So overall, I think they're E36M3, a planned swindle, and I don't like em.  

mtn said:

ProDarwin said:

mtn said:

APEowner said:

I don't have a problem with the concept of toll roads but I do have a problem with the fact that they work differently in different parts of the country, the signage is often unclear and there's no standard way to pay for them.

 

E-Z Pass and I-Pass are pretty universal. 

19 out of 50 isnt exactly universal

19 out of 27 is closer though. I should have said "pretty universal in the midwest and eastern United States". 

Yes, EZ-Pass is pretty universal in the Midwest and eastern US but doesn't cover California (FasTrak), Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas (TxTag) or Colorado (ExpressToll), Oklahoma (PikePass) or, Washington State Good To Go!).  Those are all places I've driven and had to figure out tolls on the fly.  Often with a trailer in tow which in some cases changes the rules.

As far as EZ-Pass goes not all of the places that accept it have a system that can tell if you've got a trailer in tow.  Some detectors can figure it out automatically and some can't.  The booth workers (when there is a booth) don't always know that they're supposed to do something different if there's a trailer.  After having to fight a couple of tickets I finally just setup my pass so it charged for the trailer whether I was towing one or not.

I like driving on them more than I like paying for them.

Like RevRico said, most of the tolls collected and our out of control gas taxes don't even go to repairing roads. We are basically funding pensions with that money in Pennsylvania. 

bobzilla said:

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Last time we ran the PA turnpike from end to end was about 6 years ago and even then it was $48 for a car. 

Just looked it up to cross all the way to New Jersey, it's $97.  We were considering it for an upcoming trip.  Not anymore.

Peabody said:

drsmooth said:

If you are an infrequent user and smart about it there is no reason one couldn't get away with it indefinitely.

Like lowering the tailgate on your pickup on the way home from the motocross races.

I've never done that

One of my friends makes sure he has a mountain bike on the back covering his plate lol.

I use it for work provided it will actually save me time (and stress) but if I'm paying, I'll just sit on the 401 for an extra 20 minutes.

alfadriver said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Last time we ran the PA turnpike from end to end was about 6 years ago and even then it was $48 for a car. 

Just looked it up to cross all the way to New Jersey, it's $97.  We were considering it for an upcoming trip.  Not anymore.

good god. Nope. I'll drive the extra 100 miles or whatever to run 80 across. 

bobzilla said:

alfadriver said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Last time we ran the PA turnpike from end to end was about 6 years ago and even then it was $48 for a car. 

Just looked it up to cross all the way to New Jersey, it's $97.  We were considering it for an upcoming trip.  Not anymore.

good god. Nope. I'll drive the extra 100 miles or whatever to run 80 across. 

Holy cow. I'd do it only if I was able to get a job (contract) on the other end so I could write off the tolls. Whoa. 

Crossing the C&D canal on Delaware Rt 1 costs $1.00 for passenger cars, SUVs, and light trucks during the week.  It's $3.00 on weekends.

For 3-axle vehicles, it's $5.00 at the weekend rate.  EACH WAY.

Which means if I take the Miata with tire trailer to Dover Speedway for an autocross, it's $10 in tolls just to get acrodd the bridge.  For a vehicle that weighs (all in) less than one end of the average big SUV that only pays $6.

As for the topic at hand, if you're going to have toll roads, then they need to drop the road tax on our plates and hte state road taxes on our income as well as dropping that 82 cents per gallon tax on gasoline. If they do that, then fine. Otherwise its a poll tax on top of hte other taxes we already pay to use them. 

There are two toll roads I use in SC. One is the 185 connector around Greenville. The other was the Cross Island Connector on Hilton Head. The Cross Island Connector toll just expired and they have torn down the toll plazas. A couple of dollars is well worth bypassing the traffic. 

I have used the Ohio Turnpike before. I wasn't impressed with the quality of the road, but I'm sure it was much faster than the alternatives. 

Basically, if it bypasses traffic and congestion in an area I'm not super familiar with, I'm willing to pay the price. If I was a local, I'd know all the shortcuts and probably wouldn't use them at all. 

I HATE the idea of privatizing highway infrastructure. Especially if its about the only reasonable way to get somewhere, it should be taxpayer funded and not pay per use.

And then you have things like the DC 495 HOV toll lanes, I dont feel we should be essentially making rapid transit lanes that are only open to those who can afford to pay. 

Also, both use land that is generally emminient domain'd for use. Doing that and then handing it over to a for-profit is really rotten to me. 

bobzilla said:

As for the topic at hand, if you're going to have toll roads, then they need to drop the road tax on our plates and hte state road taxes on our income as well as dropping that 82 cents per gallon tax on gasoline. If they do that, then fine. Otherwise its a poll tax on top of hte other taxes we already pay to use them. 

Depends on the toll road.  I'd wager that most people who use I80 across Ohio are just going across Ohio- so plate revenue isn't part of it.  Other ones are different- like 76 that connects Pittsburg to Philly- yea, that's a little much.  Or the one I hear about in Texas.

(I 80 connects Pittsburg to both Detroit and Chicago- so all of that steel going both ways is a huge user of that road.  Theoretically, it's the same for 76, but it's not that anymore)

So it really depends on if it's mostly people in state or out of state.

In reply to Apexcarver :

Aren't HOV lanes free if you have more than one person in the car?  Which was supposed to be their point.

alfadriver said:

In reply to Apexcarver :

Aren't HOV lanes free if you have more than one person in the car?  Which was supposed to be their point.

the Virginia part of the DC beltway has "pay to play" lanes. 

There are a few that if you have an EZ pass flex you can make free if you have 3+ in the car, but you can pay and use otherwise.

I'm against it.  Colorado is building more and more toll roads/lanes.  Which are then sold to private companies, most of which aren't even American owned/based.  My taxes built that road, if you're gonna toll it, you better keep it state owned/run and when it's paid off, get rid of the tolls.  The express lanes are even worse and aren't considered a free/hov lane unless you have 3+ people in the car.  Sometimes they don't even let motorcycles use them for free.

Living in PA, I'm very familiar with our Turnpike toll road. It's a horrible highway, constantly under construction and still manages to have some of the worst road surface you'll encounter in a state known for bad roads. The tolls are waaaay too high. I live and work in the Harrisburg area and it would make sense for me to use it frequently, if only to jump on/off the local exits.

Nope. I refuse to give them a single dollar. Haven't used their crappy road for probably a decade unless I have to go to Pittsburgh, in which case there isn't a reasonable alternative (Route 30 takes forever). 

Tolls for huge bridges...yeah, I can tolerate that. Tolls for a highway that isn't anything different than the other hundreds of highways? No.

Most people today are using the PA turnpike for free.  The EZ Pass system is totally broken.  Multiple accounts are being dropped from existence because of a glitch in the system, which means it converts you to pay by mail from your plate... but they only have a handful of people to oversee sending those letters.

My transponder died.  I have used the turnpike probably 20 times this year.  Never got a bill, nothing deducted from my account, zilch.  Just used it on Tuesday from Pittsburgh to Harrisburg.  Account shows no activity.