Towing a camping trailer?

alfadriver said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Don't give up that easily.   Unless you really want something that size that's "lite".  

If I were getting something new- I would very much consider on of these- https://www.roulottesprolite.com/produit/CLASSIC/

Everyone including yourself has said the windsail part of it is a very real concern with anything less than a full-size.

We aren't going to buy a full-size. Neither of us wants a vehicle that big.

z31maniac said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Don't give up that easily.   Unless you really want something that size that's "lite".  

If I were getting something new- I would very much consider on of these- https://www.roulottesprolite.com/produit/CLASSIC/

Everyone including yourself has said the windsail part of it is a very real concern with anything less than a full-size.

We aren't going to buy a full-size. Neither of us wants a vehicle that big.

We owned a Prolite Mini, which we towed behind a 2015 WRX. The joke was that the WRX is the tow package of the Impreza - more power, bigger brakes, more cooling, stiffer suspension. The Prolite towed perfectly, partly because it was light (sub 1000 lb dry) and partly because it was short and very close to the ground. We towed that thing all over BC, Washington, Oregon and California, and it never once felt squirrelly or significantly affected by wind.

We needed more room (grandkids in tow) so bought a 21 foot Outback, which is extremely tall and very high off the ground, which we tow with a Tundra and an equalizer hitch. It is much, much worse than the Prolite/WRX combination for sway and wind sensitivity . My not too surprising conclusion is that sail area matters, but also that ground clearance matters. If the sail is providing force on a longer lever arm, it has more effect. So consider height as well as sail area.

By the way, the Prolite stood up really well to extensive use, and we sold it for nearly what we paid for it. They have some pretty enthusiastic fans.

In reply to Turboeric :

For one the size we'd need for what we are talking about (full bathroom for example) those look nice, but $$$$$

They must use Flash for their tours of their trailers. That's disabled on our machines. Horrific security risks so I can't look at the largers ones that have a full bathroom.

z31maniac said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

As mentioned, we haven't purchased a trailer or tow vehicle yet. The idea was to be able to tow it with something like a 2010+ 4Runner. Tow capacity of 5k.

Wich is why we were looking at shorter trailers with a weight under 3k so loaded it would be ~4k.

But if it's going to be a tail wagging the dog situation in the avg wind we have here without a full-size, it's a non-starter for us. 

We just are not going to buy a full-size vehicle.

I still think you'd be OK with a smaller trailer and a weight-distributing hitch with sway control. A 4Runner is still a decent size vehicle.

The Ford Towing Guide 2020 lists maximum frontal area for the range of vehicles (page 15)

z31maniac said:

In reply to Turboeric :

For one the size we'd need for what we are talking about (full bathroom for example) those look nice, but $$$$$

Make sure you're not looking at them in 75 cent Canadian dollars.

z31maniac said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Don't give up that easily.   Unless you really want something that size that's "lite".  

If I were getting something new- I would very much consider on of these- https://www.roulottesprolite.com/produit/CLASSIC/

Everyone including yourself has said the windsail part of it is a very real concern with anything less than a full-size.

We aren't going to buy a full-size. Neither of us wants a vehicle that big.

You are right, I did say that.  But my experience is towing with an Escape with a 2.0l Turbo.  Which is about the smallest thing you can pull 3000lb with.  And so far, the difference between a 20ftx15ft high big trailer and a 17ftx 7.5fit high vintage trailer is pretty striking.   So far, we've not had any stability issues with the small trailer.

But I still have the basic friction anti sway system- just in case we need it.  Basically, I think it's valid because I just don't know yet 100% how easy a small trailer is to pull over the long run.  So far, so good, but I'll get back with you later this year when we go for a week with distances between in the hours instead of just an hour.

It's pretty easy to rent a trailer so that you know.

z31maniac said:

In reply to Turboeric :

For one the size we'd need for what we are talking about (full bathroom for example) those look nice, but $$$$$

That part is hard to fit into a small trailer....   So you may be right... 

Turboeric said:

z31maniac said:

In reply to Turboeric :

For one the size we'd need for what we are talking about (full bathroom for example) those look nice, but $$$$$

Make sure you're not looking at them in 75 cent Canadian dollars.

Good point. 

alfadriver said:

z31maniac said:

In reply to Turboeric :

For one the size we'd need for what we are talking about (full bathroom for example) those look nice, but $$$$$

That part is hard to fit into a small trailer....   So you may be right... 

Those are still pretty light even for their larger ones. IIRC from glancing last night, the smallest one that had a full bathroom was still just under 2k lbs. But I couldn't get a good idea of the interior space. I REALLY need a way to get a 2nd monitor (or use a TV if one is installed) to be productive with my job. 

Even here in my home office, I have two 27" monitors and then the laptop screen itself. 

I may need to be realistic that we are asking for too much for what we are willing to spend. 

Welcome to a whole new world.  Lots of people to share their history here.  Listen and take notes, learning on your own $ can get costly.

My addition, payload of the tow vehicle(TV) gets exceeded before tow capacity.  In either case 60% of limit is good, 80% OK, stay away from 90% or more.  Keep your speed down.  60MPH, 65 max for a few thousand miles until you get the feel of it.  Fiberglass campers or ones with an aluminum frame are best.  Siding matters less, metal is easier to repair, and they all leak if you don't take care of seams on a regular basis.  You need a hitch with WDH, properly set up it also works to reduce sway.  Last one, spend time on utube and IRV2.com forum to learn more.

My rig is an 04 1500 silverado pulling a '13 evergreen ascent 19erd.  Should be able to pull with a smaller TV but we bring to many toys in the truck!

z31maniac said:

In reply to Turboeric :

For one the size we'd need for what we are talking about (full bathroom for example) those look nice, but $$$$$

A full dry bath was one of the reasons I've been looking at the R-Pod 180.  It's one of the few smaller travel trailers with that feature.  Plus, the slide doesn't have to be out in order for the RV to function - nice for quick overnight stops at rest areas or 24 hr Walmarts.

However, it does compromise in other areas. The dinette area would be hard-pressed to meet your dual-monitor work station requirements.  But it might be possible to rebuild the dinette into a desk station that could work for you. It's fairly common these days for folks to buy an RV close to their needs and then modify it to get the floor plan the rest of the way.

The model has been in production for quite a while, so it's not too hard to find used ones for a fair bit less than MSRP.

Not an ideal solution, but maybe a Hi-Lo?  They're a bit of a pain since they have setup time and teardown time, but it might be a way to get the size and features you need without the billboard of death.

In reply to z31maniac :

For more than a decade I pulled my enclosed tandem trailer with an S10 sized SUV. I'm in Minnesota but towed it all over the country chasing Vintage races.  The little 2.8 V6 couldn't hold freeway ( 65-70mph) speeds up long steep grades or high up in the mountains and would slowly drop down to 45-50 mph. But never below or never overheat. 
    Really gusty 40+ mph winds never gave me any problems.  I would notice Semi's drifting across lanes sometimes but I was OK. 
       No I didn't use an equalizer hitch. But always made sure the trailer had at least 3-400 pounds tongue weight.  
    It's easy with a travel trailer to be light on the tongue depending on where the water and holding tanks are.   You need that 3-400 pounds of tongue weight.  
    One other point. Check the alignment of the trailer wheels.  Do not just assume they are right.  Way too often I see them at crazy angles.  
   Perfect is when you set your string up the front and back of the string  to each wheel front and back is exactly the same  and the hitch is exactly centered between the left and right  strings, distance minus nothing. 
Checking it is pull the trailer straight behind. Set up 4 Jack stands. One at the left front of the tow vehicle, one at the right front. One  at the left rear of the trailer and one at the right rear of the trailer. Put a tight string  between each Jack stand along the side of the rig.  Now measure to the front and back of each wheel. 

Disclaimer - I've never owned or even slept in a trailer.

Having said that, I checked out something like the below at a RV show a number of years ago.

I was immediately reminded of engineering rule #1 "hinges > tracks" and thought, good grief, this thing has compound tracks on two different axes...how could they possibly prevent binding especially given the weight constraints.

Well, I went inside and got my answer; they didn't.  Brand new trailer and it was already totally berked up...huge gouge marks on the interior walls from binding.

Can you imagine arriving at a camp site and not beng able to deploy the sections or worse yet, not being able to retract the sections at the end of your stay.

Again, I'm no expert and I'd hate to be unjustly critical but from an engineering theory based assessment, I wouldn't expect it to work reliably and from an anecdotal sample of one, it appeared not to.

We purchased a Wolf Pup 18TO back in 2017.  it's a 18 foot box with a full slide out, trailer is 22'6" overall. It's just the 2 of us and 4 dogs at the time.  It's definitely the kia of campers, but it serves out needs of 3-4 long weekends a year no problem.  It's a single axle, but rides on real wheels and tires. Supposedly 5K GVW.  When we got it, we towed with a 2000 Durango RT.  Tongue weight for the durango was a bit much and could have used a set of airbags or something.  It towed fine on the flat, but uphills were a bit much for the combo.  Braking was fine, has trailer brakes, a Prodigy brake controller and Hawk towing pads.

Durango needed to be replaces, we bought a 2004 Suburban.  Once you hit the tow/haul button it's almost like the camper isn't even there.  Above 70 we start to get a little sway, but I prefer to keep the speeds lower towing anyway..

The suburban tows a car trailer literally like it's not there at all. 

Mileage isn't bad, coming home up the Garden State Parkway, from the bottom to the top, we got 14 MPG.  On the way out with the hills in CT and NY we were all the way down to 12.  Towing a car from middle of nowhere NY back to CT was 14 mpg.

Dunno if this helps, but it's my story

In reply to cfvwtuner :

It does. It keeps reinforcing we either need:
Expensive prolite-type trailer 
or
Full-size tow vehicle (non-starter)

I might consider a Trailblazer-type thing.  Small-ish on the inside, but a full-frame with an overkill  transmission.  I think mom's was rated for 5000 and 3500 felt like nothing behind it.

Toyotas rock the reliability world, but they aren't what I would call "beefy" for things like towing.

I think there are plenty of SUVs out there that will easily handle 5000 lbs as long as the trailer is short-ish.  I think pretty much anything in this list in the link I would feel fine towing an 18 footer.  Some I would do a 24 footer.  You also have to remember that newer is often better.  A new F150 will do a much better job than even an F250 from the 90s.  A new Jeep Grand Cherokee will be way better than a ZJ from the 90s.

While I can't for the utter life of me understand not wanting a full size tow rig (my Suburban is the ANSWER for pulling anything at any time in any condition) I'll throw a few observations out there.

My sister had a late model 4Runner and it was terrible for towing anything.  The frame height and offroading ability combined with a narrowish track made it feel very nervous with any sort of trailer behind it.

A buddy of mine towed my enclosed car hauler the other day with his Tourag diesel.  It did a great job and he reported the 5,000 lb load was very stable and planted.  

A fellow autocrosser uses an Audi Q7 to haul his enclosed trailer all over and it seems perfectly happy with a 7,000 load.

I had an older Sequoia (05-06 model years are the sweet spot).  It isn't too big and feels smaller than it is but tows pretty well (vastly better than the 4Runner).  

But really the answer is Suburban.  My buddy just borrowed mine, drove from KY to Colorado, hooked up a rental 24' camper, took the family to Yellowstone for a week, back to Colorado and returned the camper, and back to Ky.  And all it needed was an oil change.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I might consider a Trailblazer-type thing.  Small-ish on the inside, but a full-frame with an overkill  transmission.  I think mom's was rated for 5000 and 3500 felt like nothing behind it.

Toyotas rock the reliability world, but they aren't what I would call "beefy" for things like towing.

I think there are plenty of SUVs out there that will easily handle 5000 lbs as long as the trailer is short-ish.  I think pretty much anything in this list in the link I would feel fine towing an 18 footer.  Some I would do a 24 footer.  You also have to remember that newer is often better.  A new F150 will do a much better job than even an F250 from the 90s.  A new Jeep Grand Cherokee will be way better than a ZJ from the 90s.

The Trailblazer & Buick/GMC  versions are wonderful tow vehicles. Comfortable as all get out and will haul heavy trailers up and down mountains without getting out of cruise control. 
   I went from S10 sized SUV's to the Trailblazer and loved the improvement. 
    

In reply to KyAllroad :

Size and economy. Especially when not towing.  I can't fit a F150 in my garage. 

Here's a fun data point for you.  And more proof that a full size SUV/truck isn't needed.  A friend bought a Winnie micro, 19 feet I think, 2 axle small slide.  It weighed about 4500.  Pulled it with his new kia SUV, rated for 5000 max.  Spent the summer pulling it from Tennessee to New England, never had a problem.  He insisted it did fine, and got 13mpg average.  I did convince him to add a trans temp monitor, which read 215 towing, but then again it read 210 without the trailer.  He showed the dealer the numbers and they were fine with it.

So it is possible to tow with a smaller vehicle in spite of what everyone else is saying.  

In reply to KyAllroad :

Because we really only have space for two vehicles. Which means the Suburban would be her DD, I'll be picking up something 2-door, sporty and manual next year.

She absolutely abhors the thought of something that big as her DD. To give you an idea, she thinks the Mazda 3 is too big and wants another Smart Car.

I don't want to drive a big vehicle either, and like alfa, it wouldn't fit in the garage. And I don't like leaving vehicles outside.

I'm not the typical GRM'er who doesn't mind having a bunch of older vehicles that I have to work on, insure, etc. That's just not appealing to me.

In reply to z31maniac :

I understand and agree with your needs and position.   I hope that position does not exclude American vehicles if they are the size you'll accept