Toyota Echo Knowlwdge?

Teach Me Echo.
I am going to look at this car today.
http://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/3043082205.html
It will be for my 55 yr old sister. She has been driving a '02 Saturn SL1 auto/air/crank windows.
The Saturn sits too low for taking my 80 yr old mother to her appointments. My sister has been mostly now driving my mothers '96 Ciera which my mother can get in/out of.

My thoughts have been to sell both the Saturn and the Ciera and get one better car. I think the large doors of the Echo will be good as well as the high, upright seat.

This one seems to have air/auto and crank windows as well so no improvement in features. Should not be any worse in driving dynamic than a Ciera or SL1, ha ha. My sister would not know driving dynamic if it hit her over the head. What she needs is an ultra reliable/neglect-able appliance.

Please review the ad and tell me if you see any fail points or concerns.
I spoke to the owner on the phone and English is not the first language (as also evident by the spelling.)
The Saturn w/ 116k miles sold for a $3,500 profit. I will shoot for a similar purchase price on the Echo and I will have a car with half the miles. If the Ciera (96k miles but rusty) sells for $1,500 those funds will more than fix anything that the Echo needs as well as the purchase taxes.

They're ugly little mothers, but other than that I know nothing.

I bought one for my sister (same colour) with twice the miles for $2,000. It's a great car for the non-car person, absolutely dead-nuts reliable and despite its looks, I think you'd be surprised how inoffensive it is to drive.

Yes it's an interesting world where the nicest thing you can say is it's not as bad as you think it would be

Agree that I have heard nothing negative, which tells me it's a good appliance but that's about it. And yes they are as ugly as the yellow side of dog crap.

Well, all I can add is that it's essentially the same chassis as my Scion xB. Proven reliable, yet not much fun. But that's what you're looking for, right?

Lesley wrote: I bought one for my sister (same colour) with twice the miles for $2,000. It's a great car for the non-car person, absolutely dead-nuts reliable and despite its looks, I think you'd be surprised how inoffensive it is to drive.

+1.

Oddly enough, off the line it feels quite reasonable. (...although it runs out of steam as you speed up.) My guess is that decent gearing and clever throttle programming[ * ] are being used to hide the engine's anemic nature from the owner. For someone who does not spend time touching the rev limiter, this works fine.

--
[ * ] - I have heard stories about hiding the wimpiness of an engine by giving you a lot of a car's power (e.g., like 60%) with the initial 30% of throttle pedal movement. I would not be surprised if that was done in the Echo, too.

the XB might be a better choice if you can find one. Larger "Square" doors and a taller more upright seating position.

I have driven the echo.. it is not a bad appliance. If a friend of mine could not kill her's running back and forth from NJ to OK on minimal maintance.. then nobody can

You know a car is only "decent" when even CU damns it with the kind of faint "praise" they used to describe the Echo and it's Yaris replacement.

BTW, does anyone know what a "ceady" player is? And it sure is a good thing, I guess, that the car has a clear "titele". Nothing more disgusting than dirty titeles.

Sucked.
As i pulled up to the house, the Tahoe in the drive with flat black reproduction panel front fenders alerted me that this guy flips cars with body damage.
There was also an Explorer with a For Sale sign, then this Echo.
Upon opening the door, my first thought was this interior is much dirtier than typical for a 51k mile car. Pop the hood and it is all evident. The mounting tabs were broken off the headlights and metal strapping was used in its place. The overspray was excessive on the headlights and the radiator. The front cross member was still dented.

In the interior, I saw glass shards in the driver's door map pocket as well as glass shards in the pocket behind the passenger seat. Without leading on, I asked the seller which window was broken. He was not familiar with a broken window but did state that he once replaced the outside mirror. After asking about the shards the story changed to a tree branch right here in the driveway.

I ran the carfax from my smartphone. In retrospect, the language barrier that we had on the phone seemed to keep me from asking for the vin over the phone.
Sure enough, carfax shows inaccurate miles. The car had 52k miles on it in '07 (nearly 5 years ago) and shows 51k now. Certainly, my impression was that the car has more that 100k on the interior.
I also noticed junkyard markings on a rear spring (why would a 51k mile car that was hit in the front need a rear spring replaced?)

I did not drive the car. I wanted nothing to do with it.

For you humor, here is a cut and paste of the Carfax which spans the states of Florida, Maine, Michigan and Ohio.

11/21/2001 NICB Vehicle manufactured and shipped to original dealer 12/03/2001 Quality Imports, Inc. Fort Walton Beach, FL 850-863-2161 qualityimports.com Alignment checked Washed/detailed 12/10/2001 Dealer Inventory Vehicle sold 12/10/2001 2 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Navarre, FL Odometer reading reported Registered as personal vehicle 12/21/2001 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Navarre, FL Title #0084695967 Title issued or updated First owner reported 03/19/2002 3,763 Quality Imports, Inc. Fort Walton Beach, FL 850-863-2161 qualityimports.com Oil and filter changed Maintenance inspection completed Fluids checked 06/28/2002 10,306 Quality Imports, Inc. Fort Walton Beach, FL 850-863-2161 qualityimports.com Tires rotated Oil and filter changed Tires rotated and balanced Maintenance inspection completed Fluids checked 10/26/2002 Dealer Inventory Florida Vehicle sold Owner 2 Purchased: 2002 Type: Personal Where: Florida Est. length owned: 11/12/02 - 11/26/02 (14 days) Date: Mileage: Source: Comments: 11/12/2002 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Pensacola, FL Title #0084695967 Title issued or updated New owner reported Loan or lien reported 11/26/2002 10,775 Dealer Inventory Fort Walton Beach, FL Vehicle offered for sale 02/05/2003 Bob Tyler Toyota Pensacola, FL 850-478-9999 bobtylertoyota.com Recommended maintenance performed 03/04/2003 11,002 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Pensacola, FL Title #0084695967 Registration issued or Registered as personal vehicle Loan or lien reported Vehicle color noted as Green 01/23/2004 Bob Tyler Toyota Pensacola, FL 850-478-9999 bobtylertoyota.com Rear brakes serviced/adjusted 02/13/2004 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Pensacola, FL Title #0084695967 Registration issued or renewed Registered as personal vehicle Loan or lien reported Registration updated when owner moved the vehicle to a new location Vehicle color noted as Green 03/04/2004 Bob Tyler Toyota Pensacola, FL 850-478-9999 bobtylertoyota.com Brakes checked 08/20/2004 Bob Tyler Toyota Pensacola, FL 850-478-9999 bobtylertoyota.com Body electrical system checked 11/12/2004 Bob Tyler Toyota Pensacola, FL 850-478-9999 bobtylertoyota.com Recommended maintenance performed Owner 3 Purchased: 2005 Type: Personal Where: Maine, Florida, Michigan, Ohio Est. length owned: 4/4/05 - 11/15/11 (6 yrs. 7 mo.) Date: Mileage: Source: Comments: 04/04/2005 31,480 Maine Motor Vehicle Dept. Bar Harbor, ME Title issued or updated New owner reported 05/13/2005 33,802 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Pensacola, FL Title #0084695967 Title issued or updated 02/20/2006 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Pensacola, FL Title #0084695967 Registration issued or renewed Registered as personal vehicle Vehicle color noted as Green 02/09/2007 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Pensacola, FL Title #0084695967 Registration issued or renewed Registered as personal vehicle Vehicle color noted as Green 11/14/2007 52,585 Quality Imports, Inc. Fort Walton Beach, FL 850-863-2161 qualityimports.com Vehicle serviced 02/27/2008 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Fort Walton Beach, FL Title #0084695967 Registration issued or renewed Registered as personal vehicle Registration updated when owner moved the vehicle to a new location Vehicle color noted as Green 03/02/2009 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Fort Walton Beach, FL Title #0084695967 Registration issued or renewed Registered as personal vehicle Vehicle color noted as Green 10/04/2010 Michigan Motor Vehicle Dept. Muskegon, MI Title #244Y2770581 Title or registration issued Registration updated when owner moved the vehicle to a new location 02/01/2011 Michigan Motor Vehicle Dept. Muskegon, MI Registration issued or renewed 11/15/2011 51,851 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Toledo, OH Vehicle purchase reported MILEAGE INCONSISTENCY The mileage reported here conflicts with this vehicle's odometer history. Ask a mechanic or the seller to confirm the actual mileage - this entry may just be a clerical error. 12/15/2011 Ohio Motor Vehicle Dept. Toledo, OH Title #4803958136 Title issued or updated Dealer took title of this vehicle while it was in inventory

That's a well traveled little crapbox. I'd run like hell too.

JoeyM wrote:

Lesley wrote: I bought one for my sister (same colour) with twice the miles for $2,000. It's a great car for the non-car person, absolutely dead-nuts reliable and despite its looks, I think you'd be surprised how inoffensive it is to drive.

+1. Oddly enough, off the line it feels quite reasonable. (...although it runs out of steam as you speed up.) My guess is that decent gearing and clever throttle programming[ * ] are being used to hide the engine's anemic nature from the owner. For someone who does not spend time touching the rev limiter, this works fine. -- [ * ] - I have heard stories about hiding the wimpiness of an engine by giving you a lot of a car's power (e.g., like 60%) with the initial 30% of throttle pedal movement. I would not be surprised if that was done in the Echo, too.

It's my impression (in my Scion) that this sort of throttle response has more to do with the VVT-i programming than anything else. If you look at a torque curve for this engine, it's flat as a board until it drops like a stone.

Noting all the Fl. "events" in that carfax...

There's a shop a few blocks from my house, no markings on the outside of the building whatsoever, YET, weekly deliveries and pickups of trailerloads of near new cars. Some look like they might need just a bit of detailing, while other look like they could use a bit of painting. I always figured states like Arkansas or Mississippi would be good, cheap places for "re-furbishing" cars with "slight" crash damage...apparently, Fl is better if I believe the "title washing" that is so prevalent here.

Not echo related, but what is your price range? A friend of mine has had a Suzuki Aerio since new, and does nothing more than put gas in it. I know the car isn't being serviced on schedule. It runs great and is a complete appliance. Only reason I mention this is, these were available back in... 02? 03? They probably don't hold their value like the Civics/Corollas of that time frame, and their seat has to be at least as high as the Echo (they feel really tall to me).