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pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
11/29/12 8:16 a.m.

By now you have all probably heard about the recent tragedy at the Pittsburgh Zoo. I am not normally the soapbox type, but an announcement this morning got me pretty steamed.

The news report said that our District Attorney, Stephen Zappala, could find no evidence of negligence on the part of the mother and no charges were filed against the mother. No negligence?

"Maddox Derkosh was killed almost immediately after he fell over the railing of an exhibit of African painted dogs and was attacked by 11 of the animals. His mother, Elizabeth Derkosh, 34, had lifted him on top of the railing to give the boy with poor eyesight a better view. Holding him by the waist, she lost control, Zappala said.

Um, you took your child from behind a protective barrier and placed him atop it and failed to hold him securely. That pretty much defines negligence!

I read more about the story online, and it turns out that the radio misquoted Zappala. He actually found no criminal misconduct. OK, that's a little better, the mother apparently didn't break a law and therefore cannot be prosecuted. I am assuming that we have no child endangerment laws here in PA, I'm not sure, I'm not a lawyer. It is perfectly legal to throw your kids to the wolves (or dogs) if you want. Good to know, way to keep us safe Zappala.

But wait, it gets worse. Because this is America, we cannot be held responsible for our stupidity, but we should be able to sue someone with money when we are. And so it begins:

"The child may have believed there was a Plexiglas barrier as he appeared to lunge forward, the prosecutor said. Zappala said he was still investigating whether the Pittsburgh Zoo & PPG Aquarium might be culpable of negligence, manslaughter or endangering welfare of children because of the design of the exhibit."

The legal team has already slyly added "child with poor eyesight" to the description of the victim to start the sympathy for mom, and now they are introducing the idea of a barrier that "should have been there". That will play well in court eh? It's the Zoo's fault because they only provided a 12-foot drop into the exhibit, railings, walls, fences and warning signs. That is not enough! If I lift my child high enough, I can still get him over the protective barrier! And this opening looks like it could possibly have incredibly clean and clear plexiglass over it...you fooled me! Shame on you Pittsburgh Zoo! It's your fault!

I agree that this is a tragedy, and I feel horrible for a young life cut short. I can even, kinda see how it might be a mistake or an accident. I mean, I would never put my child in harm's way like that, but that's just me. But to blame the Zoo? Come on lady, you screwed up. Feel horrible, punish yourself, grieve for the loss of your child, but don't try to skirt the blame that you deserve. And don't take away everyone else's enjoyment of the exhibits with more and more barriers!

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 UltraDork
11/29/12 8:25 a.m.

It is what it is. Now what are we going to do to fix it?

4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury UltimaDork
11/29/12 8:29 a.m.

hey lady...

DrBoost
DrBoost PowerDork
11/29/12 8:55 a.m.

In my opinion, she was negligent. She did what she had to do to avoid the measures set in place to protect everyone. Should she be prosecuted? I don't think so. She didn't do what she did in order to hurt her child. But, she should in NO WAY be able to sue the zoo. If she does, I think the Zoo should remove all exibits and replace them with LCD tv's showing animals in their natural habitat.

Wally
Wally GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
11/29/12 9:09 a.m.
DrBoost wrote: In my opinion, she was negligent. She did what she had to do to avoid the measures set in place to protect everyone. Should she be prosecuted? I don't think so. She didn't do what she did in order to hurt her child. But, she should in NO WAY be able to sue the zoo. If she does, I think the Zoo should remove all exibits and replace them with LCD tv's showing animals in their natural habitat.

What he said. In America suing the gov't is a God given right. That's where the money is and everyone needs a piece to make the pain go away. Hell, I'm being sued by two people now and the bus I was driving wasn't even moving, and they weren't in it. I have had to go to the legal department a few times because of my suit and some that I have to testify at because I took that reports and I would bet we have more people in legal then in plarning or customer service, and each one of them has a big pile of work on their desks.

DrBoost
DrBoost PowerDork
11/29/12 9:51 a.m.
Wally wrote:
DrBoost wrote: In my opinion, she was negligent. She did what she had to do to avoid the measures set in place to protect everyone. Should she be prosecuted? I don't think so. She didn't do what she did in order to hurt her child. But, she should in NO WAY be able to sue the zoo. If she does, I think the Zoo should remove all exibits and replace them with LCD tv's showing animals in their natural habitat.
Hell, I'm being sued by two people now and the bus I was driving wasn't even moving, and they weren't in it.

Details, we need details!!

iceracer
iceracer UltraDork
11/29/12 9:53 a.m.

Since no crime was committed, how abought negligent manslaugher, if there is such a thing. How about "throwing your kid to the dogs ? OK, she didn't throw him.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
11/29/12 9:54 a.m.
Good to know, way to keep us safe Zappala.

I rarely, if ever, look to a government worker to keep me or my family safe but if I did... I'd probably start with firefighters over the DA.

Kidding aside - E36 M3 happens. Sometimes it happens to kids and there really isn't a need to go on a witch hunt looking for ways to further punish someone who thru ignorance or a moment of error lost a kid. People get very hostile when kids die but really... I've never been to that zoo but I've put my kids on a railing and held onto them. That is one of the least dangerous things I've done with my kids. I drive around in old cars with marginal safety standards. I took them kart racing and motorcycling at 5. They've fired rifles. They played race car driver on rusty metal hulks in my yard. My 10yr old rappelled down a 200' rock face this summer on his own. My 12yr old operates a lawn mower without supervision. If putting your kid up on a fence to see better is negligence then I am a berkeleying monster of epic proportions.

yamaha
yamaha Dork
11/29/12 9:56 a.m.

In reply to DrBoost:

He didn't tip his hat and offer to shine their shoes for a nickel?

Back on topic, I think she's been punished, but I think I was the first in the last thread about it to say berkeley being able to sue the zoo

DrBoost
DrBoost PowerDork
11/29/12 9:57 a.m.
1988RedT2 wrote: It is what it is. Now what are we going to do to fix it?

How do we fix it? I don't pretend to know the answer. If the question was "Now what are we doing to do to brake it more than it's broken already?" my answer would be to allow her to sue the Zoo. We all know that, in this day and age (and country) we are removing personal responsibility. She did something monumentally stupid. She's paying a dearer price than I pray anyone here has to pay. The Zoo did all it could. Or maybe I'll sue GRM for taking all of these hours away from me. I mean, they were the ones that allowed all of you smart, funny, talented folks to electronically gather in one place. I mean, they should know that I have a weakness for cars. Instead of stopping the insanity what did they do? THEY MADE ME BUILD AND RACE A CAR FOR LESS THAN $2000 DOLLARS, EVEN PUT A PICTURE OF IT IN A MAGAZINE!!! How can I be responsible for that?
When I file the lawsuit, should I use my screen name?

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
11/29/12 10:03 a.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Kidding aside - E36 M3 happens. Sometimes it happens to kids and there really isn't a need to go on a witch hunt looking for ways to further punish someone who thru ignorance or a moment of error lost a kid. People get very hostile when kids die but really... I've never been to that zoo but I've put my kids on a railing and held onto them. That is one of the least dangerous things I've done with my kids. I drive around in old cars with marginal safety standards. I took them kart racing and motorcycling at 5. They've fired rifles. They played race car driver on rusty metal hulks in my yard. My 10yr old rappelled down a 200' rock face this summer on his own. My 12yr old operates a lawn mower without supervision. If putting your kid up on a fence to see better is negligence then I am a berkeleying monster of epic proportions.

This. On one hand, people on this board go on and on about how kids have to been kept in this bubble and how as a kid you were out jumping lawnmowers over sharks or something like that but then some one does something like this and a kid dies from it and people are screaming for the parent's blood. She lost her kid. Isn't that enough of a punishment?

Not saying they should go after the zoo though. That is stupid.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid
SyntheticBlinkerFluid UltraDork
11/29/12 10:06 a.m.

As much as her stupidity angers me, I think she got punishment enough by watching her child get mauled by wild dogs.

Should she be able to sue the Zoo? Hell No. If children were flying off that rail every month to be a wild dog snack, then I would say yeah, go ahead and sue, because its obvious the Zoo has some safety issues. But to sue because you're the idiot, that's not right.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Intern
11/29/12 10:09 a.m.

Simmer down, young-ins!

mtn
mtn PowerDork
11/29/12 10:23 a.m.
Tom Suddard wrote: Simmer down, young-ins!

Get off my lawn!

N Sperlo
N Sperlo UltimaDork
11/29/12 10:40 a.m.

Deja-Vu.

yamaha
yamaha Dork
11/29/12 10:42 a.m.
Tom Suddard wrote: Simmer down, young-ins!
N Sperlo wrote: Deja-Vu.

It is isn't it.......

GAY SLUR

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
11/29/12 11:00 a.m.
93EXCivic wrote: ...and how as a kid you were out jumping lawnmowers over sharks or something like that...

I mean... we jumped sharks over lawnmowers and stuff but I never even thought to do it opposite and I love sushi. Sometimes all it takes is an open mind and a new avenue of thought to bring innovation. Brilliant.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
11/29/12 11:29 a.m.
DrBoost wrote:
1988RedT2 wrote: It is what it is. Now what are we going to do to fix it?
How do we fix it? I don't pretend to know the answer. If the question was "Now what are we doing to do to brake it more than it's broken already?" my answer would be to allow her to sue the Zoo. We all know that, in this day and age (and country) we are removing personal responsibility. She did something monumentally stupid. She's paying a dearer price than I pray anyone here has to pay. The Zoo did all it could. Or maybe I'll sue GRM for taking all of these hours away from me. I mean, they were the ones that allowed all of you smart, funny, talented folks to electronically gather in one place. I mean, they should know that I have a weakness for cars. Instead of stopping the insanity what did they do? THEY MADE ME BUILD AND RACE A CAR FOR LESS THAN $2000 DOLLARS, EVEN PUT A PICTURE OF IT IN A MAGAZINE!!! How can I be responsible for that? When I file the lawsuit, should I use my screen name?

Jeepers. They did this to me too. Let's find some more and turn it into a class action suit!

About the original post: at what point do people need to take responsibiliy for their actions? It's like that azzhole who imitated the girl with CP, in the video his wife (shiver!) was doing her best to justify his actions. That's what is wrong with the planet today, no one wants to take responsibility for their actions, gotta push it off on someone else via an attorney.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill UltraDork
11/29/12 11:55 a.m.

Curmudgeon If you take responsibility for your actions, then it's harder to sue someone.

I bet the attorneys will take this on a contingency. No win, no pay. The city will probably pay something just to keep from going to court. Even if it goes to court, the mother will be found some what contributory, maybe even 50%. So she will only 50% of an award. Lawyers take whatever and mom gets left with a few thousand dollars.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
11/29/12 2:19 p.m.

spitfirebill, you are right on the money. The bad thing is that it has now become nothing more than simple legalized extortion.

e_pie
e_pie HalfDork
11/29/12 2:27 p.m.

If only there had been a barrier in addition to the barrier that was already there, this wouldn't have happened at the first barrier.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/29/12 2:39 p.m.
e_pie wrote: If only there had been a barrier in addition to the barrier that was already there, this wouldn't have happened at the first barrier.

If only they'd given it 6,001 hulls!

heyduard
heyduard Reader
12/2/12 6:36 p.m.

psteav
psteav GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
12/2/12 8:41 p.m.

Soo....exactly WHERE did it say she was suing the zoo?

The way some of you guys hate on attorneys is crazy.

Appleseed
Appleseed PowerDork
12/3/12 12:13 a.m.
psteav wrote: The way some of you guys hate on attorneys is completely justified.

That's better.

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