Under paid: Take this job and shove it?

I need some experienced advice. First let me start with a little, but relevant rant. I repair fork lifts and other industrial vehicles. I feel that at my current employer I am being under paid by a significant amount. I know guys doing exactly what I am doing, some not nearly as well, making more than I am, in the same company (some with less seniority). My attitude was soured even more when I found out that a friend who works as an auto tech at a good indie/specialty shop is making almost twice what I am, and not because of a ton of OT. This guy is my age, and has a similar back ground and level of experience. What he and I do is not an apples to oranges comparison, may bee tangerines to oranges. We use the same skills, same tools and similar knowledge, just on different machines, and they are all just machines after all, except that I must be dumb for doing it for almost 40% less pay.

I am getting fairly fed up with my current employer, and I am not to sure that I would be happy working there to much longer even if my pay was moved up significantly. Its so bad that, even in this bad economy, leaving sounds better and better every day.

If I start shopping myself around to other companies in the same industry should I swing for the fences when It comes to expected pay rate? I am not going to promise things that I can't deliver, but in my field I can deliver a lot. I am humble, I am not the best, but I am definitely a top tier, highly skilled & motivated professional guy. I have no doubt at all that I would be a valubal asset any where that I went.

I also have a second related dilemma. I am hoping to relocate to the PNW in the near future (actualy ILNW Spokane, WA), economy allowing, and I already have made contact with some potential employers in the region. One seems particularly promising, and is a dealer for a brand of machines that I am already working with on a daily basis. I haven't discussed pay rates with theses guys yet, and I think that I need to the next time that I contact them, which will be soon. Should I go straight to the pay issue in my next contact with them? Also how does the pay scale for skilled mechanical trades in the PNW compare to the Mid-Atlantic/Philly region? Thanks in advance for your input GRM'ers. Andrew.

Dude it's not a date, just ask how much you'd get paid. Counter if you feel you deserve more. I think that living expenses are less in the pnw though maybe not. Plus it rains ALL THE TIME.

According to the salary calculator at cbsalary.com, the salary average for a forklift mechanic in Sharon Hill, PA is $40,778. The average in Seattle, WA is $49,693 (you'll need it because the PNW is expensive compared to your area). The national average is $39,517 because someone has to fix forklifts in Mississippi.

If you're not making that kind of money, it's time to get yourself a raise. See if there are any other facilities in your area who would be interested in hiring you and for how much. Even though they may not advertise an opening, it's possible a man with your skills could open a door. Whatever you do, don't tell the boss to shove his job unless you have another one lined up. as I'm sure you know, it's easier to get another job while you already have one.

Then make your case with the boss and his boss if possible. It comes down to three things:

1. How much money did you make the company
2. How much money did you save the company
3. How much time did you save the company

I would imagine a man in your position would be hitting numbers two and three pretty hard. Find ten examples and write them down. if you can, use real numbers to show how much you made/saved the company.

Did you develop any techniques that saved the company time and money? Did you influence the company positively in a equipment buying situation? Have you remained current with the newest equipment? In other words, show them what makes you better than anyone they could replace you with and why they would lose their shirt if they dared to.

If you can quantify your greatness and present it to them in a way that makes them look like idiots for letting you get away, then you can get more money out of them, even in this economic climate.

When you do this, stay professional in attitude. Don't seem bitter or resentful. Make a pitch like you were selling a product. After all, this product is better than any similar ones out there, right?

wherethefmi wrote: Dude it's not a date, just ask how much you'd get paid. Counter if you feel you deserve more. I think that living expenses are less in the pnw though maybe not. Plus it rains ALL THE TIME.

Well hopefully it will be that simple. The cheap skates that I've been working for have been very vauge about what the top pay rate for techs at this company realy is. I know that there are a few making 55K+, and that at least a couple of those guys are bums. I have tried to get better raises, and the cheap skates try to say that I am getting good raises and I'm nearly topped now. I know better.

The job market kinda sucks right now. Your employer knows that, I would recommend that you shop yourself around and find yourself a better position else ware.

Do it on the down low so you don't burn any bridges.

Once you have a position in hand you do have the option of going to your current employer and seeing if you can negotiate a better wage with them.

Ask not what your employer can do for you. Ask what you can do for your employer.

Your contentment (and therefore your success) has a lot to do with your attitude. If the measure of your success is what your co-workers make or what people in other industries make (and no, auto mechanics are not the same as industrial mechanics), it will be hard to be content, regardless of who you work for.

You said you are fed up with your employer, yet the only thing you mentioned that he has apparently done wrong is not paid you what you want. If someone is actually making $55K, it doesn't change the fact that the going rate in your area appears to be $ 40,778.

Keep in mind that a promise from a far away potential employer who has nothing to loose is fairly meaningless. It would be easy to spend thousands of dollars relocating only to find that he is unable to hire you, or unable to give you the raises you hope for, or keep you employed. It would be bad to be unemployed in a new area with no contacts and no ability to move back.

Nothing wrong with looking for a better opportunity. Just be sure why you are looking, and what you have to offer to a new employer. If the true answer is that you offer only a few mechanical skills and an attitude of discontent, work on improving your self before improving your job.

sometimes when you swing for the fence and miss, they bean you with the next pitch. i'm just sayin.

AngryCorvair wrote: sometimes when you swing for the fence and miss, they bean you with the next pitch. i'm just sayin.

Thats what I am Afriad of.

And I do have a good attitude (or at least have been fronting one lately), I am more than profecient in my work, and customer service skills, more so even than some of our actual customer service reps. Working on the road makes you wear alot of hats, and as it turns out the customer relations hat is some times more important than the mechanic hat.

The planned move to the NW is not just on a whim, my mother relocated there about ten years ago, she is getting older and needs some one to keep an eye on her, (incase she gets kookie and buys ten more horses)

Also I question that stated average pay. Its probably a mean average including the guys who can only pump grease, and the house mechanics that only change the batteries on electric lifts. Also I specialize in Electrics which is a much more highly skilled discipline than LP/gas/diesel. But I do those too.

I agree on questioning the online average pay.

Those sites aren't always too accurate. I was just suggesting that you know your motivation.

So what (other than money) is not working at your current job? Focus on that. Maybe you can fix it, maybe it will give you a focal point for looking for a new position. Either way, it is energy spent well.

Spokane is flipping HOT. It's in Eastern Washington, which might as well be a different state then us here in the PNW (in fact they've tried it, more than once).

Hell 10 miles east of the mountains is a differen t country let alone state :D

My Uncles and my Father all worked as lift truck mechanics for the same shop. They all tell stories about how bad the management was there and how they were screwed one way or another. Eventually my father and the middle brother left to find other work.

Dad began installing fire alarm systems, then moved to being a radio engineer and then into computer repair which led to being a SQL Database Administrator.

The middle brother started his own lift truck/forklift repair shop. Decided he'd had enough after a few years, now he's a police officer. He works on the gang task force for Washington County and one week a month he train's other officers in high-speed pursuit out at Portland International Raceway.

The youngest brother, also eventually left that original repair shop. He's running his own lift truck business and doing just fine at it. However, he's had a hernia repaired, his back is all but shot and his hands are ground beef, plus he has a drinking problem.

I guess what I'm saying is that life is all about choices and just because you're a lift truck repair tech today, doesn't mean you need to stay one forever.

wherethefmi wrote: Hell 10 miles east of the mountains is a differen t country let alone state :D

Quoted for truth. I have a couple of people in my car club that are from Spokane. Lets just say, most of us believe there is something in the water up there.

The salary thing is obviously just a rough guide. The best way to know the average salary is in your area is to inquire what others doing the same job are making at your shop and elsewhere.

Also,the list of stuff I wrote late last night is for your own use as well. Can you answer all the questions positively and with solid examples? If you can, it's time to get your ducks in a row and make your pitch. If not, work on the areas needing improvement and then make your pitch after demonstrating your improvement in them.

I'm unemployed right now so I'm looking for the the cheese too.

It's always easier to get a job if you have a job. Always remember that "a job is better than no job". Don't quit until you have something else lined up. Just look at how many people on this site are in the job market, this is not a good time to looking for work. On the other hand you have a very sellable skill so go out and sell it.

As far as getting an offer from another employer then the old employer offers more money to get you to stay is - if I'm worth that pay now that I'm leaving why wasn't I worth it yesterday, SeeYa.

I've found when negotiating pay "he who talks money first looses". This is not always the case but the first one that drops a dollar figure either sets the stage or falls through the trap door. Figure a wage that you would be satisfied with and bump it up a notch (but not too much).

Nothing ventured, nothing gained; just be smart about it.

haven't discussed pay rates with theses guys yet, and I think that I need to the next time that I contact them, which will be soon.

I get really frustrated with companies that are not upfront about pay. I just ask them straight out, after the interview has settled into a nice pace.

What do you do when the interviewer asks what you expect to make? Thats when you can blow the interview or your earning potential.

porksboy wrote: What do you do when the interviewer asks what you expect to make? Thats when you can blow the interview or your earning potential.

You kindly dodge the question by saying something about wanting to see about the job fit before salary is discussed.

If really pressed for a number, give a range where you can live with the low end you quote.

ignorant wrote:

porksboy wrote: What do you do when the interviewer asks what you expect to make? Thats when you can blow the interview or your earning potential.

You kindly dodge the question by saying something about wanting to see about the job fit before salary is discussed. If really pressed for a number, give a range where you can live with the low end you quote.

If you have a job, tell them what you WANT.

If you DON'T have a job, tell them what you NEED.

nickel_dime wrote: It's always easier to get a job if you have a job. Always remember that "a job is better than no job". Don't quit until you have something else lined up. Just look at how many people on this site are in the job market, this is not a good time to looking for work.

I totally agree to keep your job until you can find another.

When I have looked for salespeople and they give me a story of sitting at home for two years because of an inheritance or being a mister mom I bail. He might be used to taking naps too.

A family member quit a crappy entry level post office job and now regrets it after being out of work for 2 months. ouch.

P71 wrote: Spokane is flipping HOT. It's in Eastern Washington, which might as well be a different state then us here in the PNW (in fact they've tried it, more than once).

Well the last two times that I was in Spokane were both in august, on both trips I did a lot of hard out door work on my mom's farm, and it was easy compared to working out side in Philly in august. For one thing the air is all actually air; in Philly its at least 51% other in the summer. Also Spokane has good schools, in the Philly area there are some communities with very good schools, but with tax rates and realestate prices that are not GRM'er friendly. I wouldn't send my dog to the school district that we live in now, but in about two years I am going to have to send my son somewhere.

BTW, p71, Wherethefmi & fiat22turbo, you should hear what the Spokanites have to say about you west side liberal i-phone toting expencive latte drinking hipsters...As far as I am concerned though, just keep the craft brews flowing and I won't care what they say about you

HappyAndy wrote:

P71 wrote: Spokane is flipping HOT. It's in Eastern Washington, which might as well be a different state then us here in the PNW (in fact they've tried it, more than once).

Well the last two times that I was in Spokane were both in august, on both trips I did a lot of hard out door work on my mom's farm, and it was easy compared to working out side in Philly in august. For one thing the air is all actually air; in Philly its at least 51% other in the summer. Also Spokane has good schools, in the Philly area there are some communities with very good schools, but with tax rates and realestate prices that are not GRM'er friendly. I wouldn't send my dog to the school district that we live in now, but in about two years I am going to have to send my son somewhere. BTW, p71, Wherethefmi & fiat22turbo, you should hear what the Spokanites have to say about you west side liberal i-phone toting expencive latte drinking hipsters...As far as I am concerned though, just keep the craft brews flowing and I won't care what they say about you

I aint from around there, will never be from there, all my children are from where they were concieved, not born (unless concieved there in which case I'll make something up).

I'm moving back to texas after deployment (fingers crossed) buying a ranch, 60 acres should do. I dream of a short driveway to the house for the wife and another for me that loops around the property Ok /thread jack.

ignorant wrote:

porksboy wrote: What do you do when the interviewer asks what you expect to make? Thats when you can blow the interview or your earning potential.

You kindly dodge the question by saying something about wanting to see about the job fit before salary is discussed. If really pressed for a number, give a range where you can live with the low end you quote.

That's interesting. Understand, however, that the employer is doing THE EXACT SAME THING (posturing for position and the best deal possible), and in today's hiring environment, he's got a LOT more staying power than you do.

While I agree with the idea that "In negotiating, He who names the first price looses", I have to disagree in today's environment.

Being direct and up front is better. Don't play games. The employer should do the same. Pick a range, and know that you can live in the low end. Before the deal is cut, make sure you are clear that you would really like to see growth in a reasonably short time.

If the employer won't be as frank and direct with you as you are being, leave. He'll take advantage of you.

Once you've got the job, prove yourself. Then, don't wait to begin renegotiating. Don't be afraid to ask for more, even in a down market. Perhaps 6-8 months into it look for an opportunity to re-open the discussions and respectfully remind the employer of your original discussion. Don't expect miracles, and don't expect him to begin the discussion.

Employers are looking for longevity, reliability, and strength that they can build a business on that will survive the crash. Be Mr. Reliable that can contribute to that survival. Being direct and open (without being pushy) will show that you are strong.

Ask and keep asking. But know that you pre-determined that you would be OK with the lower amount.

I just did this. I was clear when he hired me, and re-opened the discussion 6 months in. The response was much more positive than I expected. I didn't get the raise yet, but I feel confident that I am very high on his radar, and that we are communicating openly and clearly. I expect to be where I want to be in less than a year.