Unhappy Retail Sales People

I think he meant you as a "customer," not as being within the business.

I think a lot of us are seeing issue with the fact that you condemn generalizations, then supply us with your own as "fact." (Despite the real fact that most of us haven't seen anything remotely similar to your observations.)

You seem just bitter to those who DID work their asses off and then got shat on as you perceive people like Gamby to be. Your posts come across as extremely condescending.

Either way, this thread sucks a fat one. (Not blaming you, for the record. ) I'm going to take a break from it for awhile. It's a "no win" discussion.

SVreX wrote:

rotard wrote: No such rules applied to salaried workers.

Maybe because it would be illegal according to the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act to do so. Just a thought...

Ok i lied...

Tell me more about this one? You made it sound like it's ok to show up late every day as a salaried worker, and you can never be legally fired for it. (As long as you put in your 40 hours, of course.)

Can't say i've ever seen a salary job that TRULY let you make your own schedule without negative repercussions.

What generalizations?

I am sharing my experiences. They are very specific. Sorry if they are in the minority. Very sorry.

I understand that gamby (and others) have gotten screwed. I also understand how that would color their perspectives.

I have gotten screwed plenty of times. I simply choose to try to work on improvements instead of bitching about it being somebody else's fault.

I can control part of it. So can everyone else.

I work to be the best employee I can be, the best employer I can be, the best customer I can be, and encourage the people around me to step up their game as well.

I could list a huge list of issues I have with my employer. I won't.

It's a choice.

z31maniac wrote: ^Amazing how you complain about his generalizations, then turn around and make your own.

I've come to the conclusion of needing to ignore SvRex when it comes to business. He says "generalizations", then makes "generalizations" about people, then bashes them for maybe being slightly bitter about getting nothing in return for their hard work (oh, wait a minute, they were paid minimum wage, that's what they deserve, how can they think they are ENTITLED to more?) etc etc.

He quite possibly sounds like the worst boss, ever. "I'm providing you with this job, you are my bitch" is the attitude I get from him. Great way to foster a relationship with an employee.

Edit- And apparently his attitude also is that no one should ever make a complaint against anyone. Uh, last time I checked, I don't take E36 M3 from anyone and will voice my opinion if necessary, even if someone like you labels it "bitching" (once again, a brilliant form of condescension).

SVreX wrote: What generalizations? I am sharing my experiences. They are very specific. Sorry if they are in the minority. Very sorry. I understand that gamby (and others) have gotten screwed. I also understand how that would color their perspectives. I have gotten screwed plenty of times. I simply choose to try to work on improvements instead of bitching about it being somebody else's fault. I can control part of it. So can everyone else. I work to be the best employee I can be, the best employer I can be, the best customer I can be, and encourage the people around me to step up their game as well. I could list a huge list of issues I have with my employer. I won't. It's a choice.

Your generalizations/pre-judging of Gamby in recent memory.

Unfortunately, sometimes, quite often even, it IS somebody else's fault. Gamby's example. My example.

I would take a 50% pay cut to work for someone like MitchellC. Those people just aren't out there. (There's my generalization for the day.)

You sound like a good business man, and someone who knows how to get results.

However, i wouldn't be interested in working for you because it sounds like you've already formed an opinion against those who had a less-than-satisfactory experience with a previous boss, and didn't (wrongly) accept the fact that they only have themselves to blame. Your loss. (though likely not in your opinion.) I generate results. I generate results WELL beyond expectation, always have, in every job i've ever held. Always will. Too bad recognition for said results doesn't seem to ever be in the cards. (Did i mention i like commission jobs?)

I have a beef with a previous employer. (A couple, in fact.) I feel alienated by you for this very fact, based upon your posts in this thread.

No biggie. I'm going to end up retiring from my current soul-sucking job that i hate anyways. I hate it, but at least it's stable.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Ok i lied... Tell me more about this one? You made it sound like it's ok to show up late every day as a salaried worker, and you can never be legally fired for it. (As long as you put in your 40 hours, of course.) Can't say i've ever seen a salary job that TRULY let you make your own schedule without negative repercussions.

Technically, that is correct.

Salaried workers are not paid for the hours they work. They are paid for the contribution they make (intellectual, managerial, artistic, etc.)

My pay is annual, and my pay period is monthly. If I contribute my skills to the job for any part of that month, the company is required to pay me. It works both ways. If it takes 60 hours per week to do my job, I am not eligible for overtime. Last week I worked 84.5 hours. No additional pay.

In practice, it doesn't usually play out that way. There is an understanding of how many hours I am expected to work, and failure to do so would be a breach of relationship with the company. I work in an at-will state. The company could fire me at-will. But they can't fire me for not working a particular number of hours. They can fire me because they don't like my face (or because they feel I have breached the understood relationship).

The FFTA restricts companies from penalizing salaried employees based on hours not worked. Some try, but it's illegal.

SVreX wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Ok i lied... Tell me more about this one? You made it sound like it's ok to show up late every day as a salaried worker, and you can never be legally fired for it. (As long as you put in your 40 hours, of course.) Can't say i've ever seen a salary job that TRULY let you make your own schedule without negative repercussions.

Technically, that is correct. Salaried workers are not paid for the hours they work. They are paid for the contribution they make (intellectual, managerial, artistic, etc.) My pay is annual, and my pay period is monthly. If I contribute my skills to the job for any part of that month, the company is required to pay me. It works both ways. If it takes 60 hours per week to do my job, I am not eligible for overtime. Last week I worked 84.5 hours. No additional pay. In practice, it doesn't usually play out that way. There is an understanding of how many hours I am expected to work, and failure to do so would be a breach of relationship with the company. I work in an at-will state. The company could fire me at-will. But they can't fire me for not working a particular number of hours. They can fire me because they don't like my face (or because they feel I have breached the understood relationship). The FFTA restricts companies from penalizing salaried employees based on hours not worked. Some try, but it's illegal.

Hrmmm.... Interesting. I didn't know that, thanks for the lesson.

At-will state here as well, though.

I was just curious because the job i recently applied for (and didn't even get an interview, thanks HR!) was salary, and i'm fast enough at what they were hiring for that i could have stayed on top of it with 30 hour weeks most of the year.

Doesn't matter. As it is, they're going to have me train the person they hired for the job anyways.

facepalm.jpg.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Your generalizations/pre-judging of Gamby in recent memory.

I didn't pre-judge him. I responded directly to the fact that he thought it was appropriate to express his unhappiness and anger in an inappropriate way in this thread.

I have no problem with people having had bad experiences or expressing them. The world is a tough place, unfortunately E36 M3 happens.

I simply choose to try to make good things happen. A big part of that is taking personal responsibility for what I can control. Anyone can do it.

There is very little positive that can come out of griping about someone else's mistakes. There is plenty that can be accomplished by taking responsibility for the part we can control, and trying to help others do better, instead of trying to make them the enemy.

When my boss acts like a E36 M3head, I do 2 things. I learn from it how to do better in my own life, then I try to help him do better. It usually leaves me wedged between management and my co-workers. Most of them are happy to have me run interference with the boss when I can.

I am the guy who goes to bat against unfair labor practices, wages, bad decisions about safety, vacations, etc. Most of my co-workers seek me out when they need someone to intervene with management.

But I won't blame the boss. I recognize he is trying to make the company successful, which is a benefit to all of us. He just doesn't always know how to do it.

I'd rather take the heat than stick my tail between my legs and complain on the internet.

I was more disappointed in the poor leadership it shows for a salaried manager to be able to show up 2 minutes late, then bitch out an hourly worker for it. I was salaried, by the way. I was also saying that your disdain, as a customer, for retail workers was obvious. You don't think you're being that way, hence the "ignorantly disrespectful" term.

Also, I don't hate "the man." I'm actually part of the management darkside. Due to this, I have an intense dislike towards those that skate by and blame their workers for poor results.

I haven't responded to anything related as a customer. You are reading into something.

I have been responding to the overwhelming negative attitude in this thread from employees relating to management.

If you read into it something about me being a customer, you were mistaken. Never considered it.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

SVreX wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Ok i lied... Tell me more about this one? You made it sound like it's ok to show up late every day as a salaried worker, and you can never be legally fired for it. (As long as you put in your 40 hours, of course.) Can't say i've ever seen a salary job that TRULY let you make your own schedule without negative repercussions.

Technically, that is correct. Salaried workers are not paid for the hours they work. They are paid for the contribution they make (intellectual, managerial, artistic, etc.) My pay is annual, and my pay period is monthly. If I contribute my skills to the job for any part of that month, the company is required to pay me. It works both ways. If it takes 60 hours per week to do my job, I am not eligible for overtime. Last week I worked 84.5 hours. No additional pay. In practice, it doesn't usually play out that way. There is an understanding of how many hours I am expected to work, and failure to do so would be a breach of relationship with the company. I work in an at-will state. The company could fire me at-will. But they can't fire me for not working a particular number of hours. They can fire me because they don't like my face (or because they feel I have breached the understood relationship). The FFTA restricts companies from penalizing salaried employees based on hours not worked. Some try, but it's illegal.

Hrmmm.... Interesting. I didn't know that, thanks for the lesson. At-will state here as well, though. I was just curious because the job i recently applied for (and didn't even get an interview, thanks HR!) was salary, and i'm fast enough at what they were hiring for that i could have stayed on top of it with 30 hour weeks most of the year. Doesn't matter. As it is, they're going to have me train the person they hired for the job anyways. facepalm.jpg.

Haha, good luck trying to get by with 30 hours a week at most companies, especially if it's an entry level salaried position.

I think you are mixing stuff up a little here.

Salespeople working counters that might require upsells (the topic of the vast majority of this thread) rarely if ever work as salaried.

I used the wrong abbreviation earlier. Its the FLSA, not the FFTA. The Federal Labor Standards Act.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

SVreX wrote: What generalizations? I am sharing my experiences. They are very specific. Sorry if they are in the minority. Very sorry. I understand that gamby (and others) have gotten screwed. I also understand how that would color their perspectives. I have gotten screwed plenty of times. I simply choose to try to work on improvements instead of bitching about it being somebody else's fault. I can control part of it. So can everyone else. I work to be the best employee I can be, the best employer I can be, the best customer I can be, and encourage the people around me to step up their game as well. I could list a huge list of issues I have with my employer. I won't. It's a choice.

Your generalizations/pre-judging of Gamby in recent memory. Unfortunately, sometimes, quite often even, it IS somebody else's fault. Gamby's example. My example. I would take a 50% pay cut to work for someone like MitchellC. Those people just aren't out there. (There's my generalization for the day.) You sound like a good business man, and someone who knows how to get results. However, i wouldn't be interested in working for you because it sounds like you've already formed an opinion against those who had a less-than-satisfactory experience with a previous boss, and didn't (wrongly) accept the fact that they only have themselves to blame. Your loss. (though likely not in your opinion.) I generate results. I generate results WELL beyond expectation, always have, in every job i've ever held. Always will. Too bad recognition for said results doesn't seem to ever be in the cards. (Did i mention i like commission jobs?) I have a beef with a previous employer. (A couple, in fact.) I feel alienated by you for this very fact, based upon your posts in this thread. No biggie. I'm going to end up retiring from my current soul-sucking job that i hate anyways. I hate it, but at least it's stable.

My take: SVrex is noting that he cannot accept the attitude yourself, gamby or any other potential/real employee are projecting.

Any beef with a previous employer is history and applying that animosity towards a prospective/current employer is a mistake. Good, honest managers are hard to find; assuming they're all bad virtually assures you'll have plenty of opportunities to see ever more examples of the bad ones.

SVreX wrote: I think you are mixing stuff up a little here. Salespeople working counters that might require upsells (the topic of the vast majority of this thread) rarely if ever work as salaried.

I was responding to the post I quoted....the topic of which involved a salaried position in which he felt he could finish all of the work in 30 hours a week.

oldsaw wrote: Any beef with a previous employer is history and applying that animosity towards a prospective/current employer is a mistake.

Yes, because utilizing experience is a terrible way to live life... oh, wait a minute.

Once again, generalizations. You are under the assumption that because a person said "berkeley you" to his last employer, he carries that attitude over to a new one. Uh, what? Usually an attitude is formed due to the environment, what a narrow view to take that someones prior anger at a company would be carried over.

HiTempguy wrote:

oldsaw wrote: Any beef with a previous employer is history and applying that animosity towards a prospective/current employer is a mistake.

Yes, because utilizing experience is a terrible way to live life... oh, wait a minute. Once again, generalizations. You are under the assumption that because a person said "berkeley you" to his last employer, he carries that attitude over to a new one. Uh, what? Usually an attitude is formed due to the environment, what a narrow view to take that someones prior anger at a company would be carried over.

You've got to remember that management is taught to stick together. Obviously the under-educated employee is to blame. They just want to steal time and money from the company. Fortunately, most of these dinosaurs are retiring.

Edit: It is a really bad idea to cite "disagreements with management" as a reason for leaving your previous company.

rotard wrote:

SVreX wrote: I think you are mixing stuff up a little here. Salespeople working counters that might require upsells (the topic of the vast majority of this thread) rarely if ever work as salaried.

I was responding to the post I quoted....the topic of which involved a salaried position in which he felt he could finish all of the work in 30 hours a week.

Oh! Got it!

Guess I did link a couple things together there.

Shouldn't you all get to work?

Nah...I'm salaried!

Seriously- day off.

oldsaw wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

SVreX wrote: What generalizations? I am sharing my experiences. They are very specific. Sorry if they are in the minority. Very sorry. I understand that gamby (and others) have gotten screwed. I also understand how that would color their perspectives. I have gotten screwed plenty of times. I simply choose to try to work on improvements instead of bitching about it being somebody else's fault. I can control part of it. So can everyone else. I work to be the best employee I can be, the best employer I can be, the best customer I can be, and encourage the people around me to step up their game as well. I could list a huge list of issues I have with my employer. I won't. It's a choice.

Your generalizations/pre-judging of Gamby in recent memory. Unfortunately, sometimes, quite often even, it IS somebody else's fault. Gamby's example. My example. I would take a 50% pay cut to work for someone like MitchellC. Those people just aren't out there. (There's my generalization for the day.) You sound like a good business man, and someone who knows how to get results. However, i wouldn't be interested in working for you because it sounds like you've already formed an opinion against those who had a less-than-satisfactory experience with a previous boss, and didn't (wrongly) accept the fact that they only have themselves to blame. Your loss. (though likely not in your opinion.) I generate results. I generate results WELL beyond expectation, always have, in every job i've ever held. Always will. Too bad recognition for said results doesn't seem to ever be in the cards. (Did i mention i like commission jobs?) I have a beef with a previous employer. (A couple, in fact.) I feel alienated by you for this very fact, based upon your posts in this thread. No biggie. I'm going to end up retiring from my current soul-sucking job that i hate anyways. I hate it, but at least it's stable.

My take: SVrex is noting that he cannot accept the attitude yourself, gamby or any other potential/real employee are projecting. Any beef with a previous employer is history and applying that animosity towards a prospective/current employer is a mistake. Good, honest managers are hard to find; assuming they're all bad virtually assures you'll have plenty of opportunities to see ever more examples of the bad ones.

Sure that's fine...

I don't see anywhere in this thread where any of us are applying that animosity towards anything other than where it's due. (With the past employer.)

I have beefs with my current employer. They stay with that employer.

I'm not assuming they're all bad. Obviously people like MitchellC exist. I just haven't seen any YET in a retail scenario. (Which IS what this thread is about, yes?) I don't work in retail anymore, but my current manager is pretty awesome. Unfortunately, the people above her prevent her from getting anything done.

But now i'm just bitching about Corporate America rather than retail itself, so it's irrelevant.

HiTempguy wrote:

oldsaw wrote: Any beef with a previous employer is history and applying that animosity towards a prospective/current employer is a mistake.

Yes, because utilizing experience is a terrible way to live life... oh, wait a minute. Once again, generalizations. You are under the assumption that because a person said "berkeley you" to his last employer, he carries that attitude over to a new one. Uh, what? Usually an attitude is formed due to the environment, what a narrow view to take that someones prior anger at a company would be carried over.

Actually, I was noting that he carried the attitude over to THIS THREAD. I have no idea what he did with new employers. Didn't assume anything.

SVreX wrote:

rotard wrote:

SVreX wrote: I think you are mixing stuff up a little here. Salespeople working counters that might require upsells (the topic of the vast majority of this thread) rarely if ever work as salaried.

I was responding to the post I quoted....the topic of which involved a salaried position in which he felt he could finish all of the work in 30 hours a week.

Oh! Got it! Guess I did link a couple things together there.

Heh, he was talking about me.

For the record, it wasn't going to be "entry" level. And i've already been doing the job on top of my titled job for the last 3 years. Even if it was just 50 hours a week, it'd be a welcome change.

I'm fast because i have to be, because i'm doing two jobs in 60 hour weeks.

Luckily, hourly here!

HiTempguy wrote:

oldsaw wrote: Any beef with a previous employer is history and applying that animosity towards a prospective/current employer is a mistake.

Yes, because utilizing experience is a terrible way to live life... oh, wait a minute. Once again, generalizations. You are under the assumption that because a person said "berkeley you" to his last employer, he carries that attitude over to a new one. Uh, what? Usually an attitude is formed due to the environment, what a narrow view to take that someones prior anger at a company would be carried over.

I never said that I presume a person carries an attitude from one employer to another. However, if an employee does then the onus is on that person.

If you read anything else in my comment, you're mistaken.

SVreX wrote:

HiTempguy wrote:

oldsaw wrote: Any beef with a previous employer is history and applying that animosity towards a prospective/current employer is a mistake.

Yes, because utilizing experience is a terrible way to live life... oh, wait a minute. Once again, generalizations. You are under the assumption that because a person said "berkeley you" to his last employer, he carries that attitude over to a new one. Uh, what? Usually an attitude is formed due to the environment, what a narrow view to take that someones prior anger at a company would be carried over.

Actually, I was noting that he carried the attitude over to THIS THREAD. I have no idea what he did with new employers. Didn't assume anything.

This entire thread is about carrying attitudes. It started with something complaining about a retail associate. If the thread was appropriate, so was Gamby's post.

We're sharing experiences in the retail industry from all angles. It started with a negative, it's perfectly ok for Gamby to share his. There is nothing inappropriate about it.