Up next ladies and gents, your retirement!!!

WilD wrote: I hope that was someone's idea of a joke.

since SEIU stands for "Service Employees International Union" I'm betting it wasn't a joke...

It's really depressing, as of late, to watch the news. I'm young, 24, and just graduated school. At 18 I joined the military to pay for school, then went to school on the state's dime (thank you tax payers), and now I'm in the workforce as an engineer. I'd like to think that I've worked for everything I have right now. Granted, my parents definitely gave me a good start to life thru school, but since I graduated HS I've pretty much been independent.

I'm going back to school at night for my MS in Mechanical Engineering. Again, more work on my end = better life. It's depressing to see my first pay stub and see what I'm actually bringing home (mind you, I am max-ing out my 401K, but that's an acct I'm watching grow). Where's all this SS money going? Wouldn't we be better to take that money and invest it ourselves? If you invested that money for the 33 years you've been in the work force, rather than having to pay into SS, you would have a pretty decent chunk saved up. Why the heck can't we just have that? I don't want the gov't prescibing how much I deserve to collect when I'm retired, regardless of how hard I work to get there.

I don't want to gov't to tell me what health care I really don't need (granted, insurance companies do already do this to an extent). I heard this weekend that the new health care reform bill will require people to pay income tax on their employer's contribution to their health insurance. Great, just what we all need. I'm already paying tax on my income, on my tuition reimbustment, and now I get to pay tax on benefits? Great.......

If you bankrupt the working people, who's going to be paying taxes?

In reply to Brotus7:

Wow, that came off as more of a rant than I intended. Sorry.

Brotus7 wrote: In reply to Brotus7: Wow, that came off as more of a rant than I intended. Sorry.

I think it's pretty understandable....

When i run the math... i've seen about 44% of my gross pay so far this year actually hit my bank account. I honestly consider that to be criminal.

93celicaGT2 wrote:

Brotus7 wrote: In reply to Brotus7: Wow, that came off as more of a rant than I intended. Sorry.

I think it's pretty understandable.... When i run the math... i've seen about 44% of my gross pay so far this year actually hit my bank account. I honestly consider that to be criminal.

took a hell of a lot less to ignite full revolution a couple hundred years ago...

93celicaGT2 wrote:

Brotus7 wrote: In reply to Brotus7: Wow, that came off as more of a rant than I intended. Sorry.

I think it's pretty understandable.... When i run the math... i've seen about 44% of my gross pay so far this year actually hit my bank account. I honestly consider that to be criminal.

That 44% does not include sales taxes, 'fees', property taxes, all kinds of stuff you get nicked for every day.

Jensenman wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote:

Brotus7 wrote: In reply to Brotus7: Wow, that came off as more of a rant than I intended. Sorry.

I think it's pretty understandable.... When i run the math... i've seen about 44% of my gross pay so far this year actually hit my bank account. I honestly consider that to be criminal.

That 44% does not include sales taxes, 'fees', property taxes, all kinds of stuff you get nicked for every day.

Oh, absolutely. I see at least another 7-10% of that 44% gone as well.

I'm starting to see why some people are FOR socialism in theory.

I have this arguement with a friend of mine pretty often. He advocates system in which everybody is paid the same. His main arguement is just that he works, makes money, but some people make more than he does. Naturally, he wants what they have, but doesn't want to work any harder to get it. Therefore, the system should not be based on WHAT you have to offer, but the fact that you are offering X # of hrs per week.

I tried to explain that if we had that, then nobody, absolutely nobody, would go to school to achieve anything higher. In the end. what drives 99% of people to impove their education is to improve their quality of life. If that no longer becomes the driving reason, why subject yourself to 10 yrs of med school to make the same amount as the cashier at Burger King?

On the amount of money that I make compared to what I actually have after taxes, I don't even want to think about it. That would only fuel the fire..... Man, I'm pretty disgruntled for someone who's only 1 year out of school. So much of the country is just blind.

Brotus7 wrote: On the amount of money that I make compared to what I actually have after taxes, I don't even want to think about it. That would only fuel the fire..... Man, I'm pretty disgruntled for someone who's only 1 year out of school. So much of the country is just blind.

Bingo. Those people just look at their "gross" income, and figure "Sweet, i'm ballin'!"

They don't take the time to notice how much they ACTUALLY get.

I'll gross over $60k this year. I'll be lucky to see $28k.

93celicaGT2 wrote: When i run the math... i've seen about 44% of my gross pay so far this year actually hit my bank account. I honestly consider that to be criminal.

Your saying you have a 56% tax rate? That seems pretty high.
Ours for my wife and me is in the 40% range all inclusive.

even if you gross 100K a year and have 0 deductions of anykind (all of your income is tax exposed) and are self employed your tax is:

21.8% fed, 3.4% Indiana state tax (flat rate), 10.6% OASI, 1.8% DI, 2.9% HI, 4% property taxes

For a total of 44.5% tax rate.

If you just make standard purchases with the rest you would add 4.025% for sales tax.

I'm not saying this number is low, but it seem like your claim is pretty high.

nocones wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: When i run the math... i've seen about 44% of my gross pay so far this year actually hit my bank account. I honestly consider that to be criminal.

Your saying you have a 56% tax rate? That seems pretty high. Ours for my wife and me is in the 40% range all inclusive. even if you gross 100K a year and have 0 deductions of anykind (all of your income is tax exposed) and are self employed your tax is: 21.8% fed, 3.4% Indiana state tax (flat rate), 10.6% OASI, 1.8% DI, 2.9% HI, 4% property taxes For a total of 44.5% tax rate. If you just make standard purchases with the rest you would add 4.025% for sales tax. I'm not saying this number is low, but it seem like your claim is pretty high.

Overtime is taxed pretty high here, i claim 0 exemptions, and that's including EVERYTHING taken out of my paycheck. I'm not saying i get "taxed" 56%. Health insurance, Social security, medicare, fed and state income tax, etc etc etc...

Put it this way.... 40 hours of overtime = ~$350 extra on the check. Overtime is time and a half, and my base hourly is ~$16/hr. I get SCREWED on overtime.

Ahh I see you include health insurance in that. Yeah.. That sucks. Ours adds another 10% or so just for health insurance, however Health insurance used to not be a tax.. Now.. Not so much. I just can't believe that people think health insurance as a government program will not increase taxes. Where is that 10-15% of everyones income going to come from?

Although I'm surprised that overtime can be taxed at a different rate than straight time. I realize it seems like it's taxed at a greater rate because all of it is taxed at your highest marginal tax rate (probably 28% for most people) so unlike your regular income which is taxed at an effective rate of ~15%, it's almost double that rate. However I'd be surprised to learn that your state can tax overtime at a higher marginal rate than you otherwise qualify for. The federal government makes no distinction, it's all income.

nocones wrote: Ahh I see you include health insurance in that. Yeah.. That sucks. Ours adds another 10% or so just for health insurance, however Health insurance used to not be a tax.. Now.. Not so much. I just can't believe that people think health insurance as a government program will not increase taxes. Where is that 10-15% of everyones income going to come from? Although I'm surprised that overtime can be taxed at a different rate than straight time. I realize it seems like it's taxed at a greater rate because all of it is taxed at your highest marginal tax rate (probably 28% for most people) so unlike your regular income which is taxed at an effective rate of ~15%, it's almost double that rate. However I'd be surprised to learn that your state can tax overtime at a higher marginal rate than you otherwise qualify for. The federal government makes no distinction, it's all income.

The insurance isn't a huge part, but it obviously makes a difference. I'm definitely not complaining about my insurance coverage. I think the overtime tax rate is what really screws me in the end, and i work so much of it. I'm not sure who or where it's coming from, but it's high. I think you hit it on the head, though. People have mentioned that our bonuses are taxed at a higher rate as well, and i think overtime falls into the category through some stupid loophole. I don't know.

I try to not let it bother me, since i'm not really working the overtime for the money, rather just to get E36 M3 done, but it's depressing to see a pay stub showing a gross of over $2000, and barely hitting 4 digits on the actual check.

OT is generally taxed higher because you get bumped into a higher tax bracket. Like this, roughly:

$16/hr = $33,280 per year Time and a half = $24/hour, figure 8 hours a week = an extra $9,984 per year or a total of $43,264 per year. Just for comparison, $24/hour with no OT = $49,920 per year.

You included health insurance in you list. That's not a tax.

...Yet.

Don't forget the other half of your SS tax that is "paid" by your employer. That is money that comes out of your check indirectly.

SVreX wrote: You included health insurance in you list. That's not a tax. ...Yet.

I see what you did there....

Yes, i should have clarified that i wasn't just taking into account taxes. Sorry 'bout that.

reviving a dead thread, but is the plan to run SS into the ground, then do a GM style bankruptcy? start a new 'fund', take all the money from the old SS, and screw all the creditors.

There is no money from the old SS. It was a Ponzi scheme from day 1. A Ponzi scheme is where new money goes directly to existing members. Nothing is invested or set aside. So, yeah, they'll do a GM on us, me, Margie, Tim and any of the rest of you in your late (late) 40's are the biggest victims. Ha-ha, jokes on us.

93celicaGT2 wrote:

nocones wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: When i run the math... i've seen about 44% of my gross pay so far this year actually hit my bank account. I honestly consider that to be criminal.

Your saying you have a 56% tax rate? That seems pretty high. Ours for my wife and me is in the 40% range all inclusive. even if you gross 100K a year and have 0 deductions of anykind (all of your income is tax exposed) and are self employed your tax is: 21.8% fed, 3.4% Indiana state tax (flat rate), 10.6% OASI, 1.8% DI, 2.9% HI, 4% property taxes For a total of 44.5% tax rate. If you just make standard purchases with the rest you would add 4.025% for sales tax. I'm not saying this number is low, but it seem like your claim is pretty high.

Overtime is taxed pretty high here, i claim 0 exemptions, and that's including EVERYTHING taken out of my paycheck. I'm not saying i get "taxed" 56%. Health insurance, Social security, medicare, fed and state income tax, etc etc etc... Put it this way.... 40 hours of overtime = ~$350 extra on the check. Overtime is time and a half, and my base hourly is ~$16/hr. I get SCREWED on overtime.

the withholdings may be more, since they withold based on that check coming every pay period, but OT isn't taxed any more than normal wage.

Do your taxes, be amazed by your refund, and then come back telling us that your actual taxes match your salary.

As for taxing healthcare, I'm sure your care isn't going to be taxed- it's on benefits that are over 10k worth for one person- and that's a pretty hefty cost to get to that. I know I'm about half that, and have very good care.

As for SS- a pretty easy fix is to increase the annual salary where they stop taking it. Right now, once you earn more than $109k, you STOP paying SS tax. Not sure why, but the Rich sure aren't paying this bill like everyone pretends. The high point does not follow inflation, so as wages have gone up, the limit does not follow.

I never planned on getting jack from SS and planned accordingly. I put away money in a 401k when I was making $7 an hour. Unfortunately folks my age had a heads up that SS was going to implode. It is the folks 10 years ahead of us that are screwed, like Hess said.

There are some huge problems though. How do you euthanize SS? Just send everyone who paid in a check with their contributions and say "don't spend it all in one place?" Since the money isn't there anyway, fat chance of that. I can't imagine the outcry that will happen with it is announced that money deducted from your check for the last 30 years or so is gone. If you can sue a broker for mismanaging your account, can you sue the SS admin for the same?

Then there is the real problem. What do you do with thousands of people who can't work due to their age and have nothing saved for retirement except SS? My grandmother dropped dead at 78 while at work, but it was her choice to work (said it kept her young!). Our parents and grandparents were sold a bill of goods decades ago that the government would take care of them in their old age. Why wouldn't they believe Uncle Sam, after all it was the G.I. Bill that helped millions of them go to college and then buy a house. The government had been good to them.

So what now? SS goes away but now grandma and grandpa American are screwed. The whole thing is a mess that will take decades to fix, possibly longer is the stupid partisanship in Washington keeps going.

In reply to slefain:

Look for the beltway-bandits to pull a Kirchner and "nationalize" private retirement accounts.

There's a whole bunch of money out there and they can get their greedy hands on it in one fell swoop.

Dr. Hess wrote: There is no money from the old SS. It was a Ponzi scheme from day 1. A Ponzi scheme is where new money goes directly to existing members. Nothing is invested or set aside. So, yeah, they'll do a GM on us, me, Margie, Tim and any of the rest of you in your late (late) 40's are the biggest victims. Ha-ha, jokes on us.

Dr. Hess, you seem to assume that they are going to stop taking our (younger generation) SS money just because it fails. I am certain I'll still put forth the same amount I always have for this slush fund regardless of the actual likelihood of it ever paying out. So, in other words, at 27, I can fully expect to continue paying until retirement, just like you. The only difference is that I know it's a fraud, and was too young to vote those losers out that started the whole mess.

tuna55 wrote: The only difference is that I know it's a fraud, and was too young to vote those losers out that started the whole mess.

Not the only difference.

It will be at least another fifty years before you can qualifiy for SS benefits; the age limit will increase.

With the advent of HC reform and the inevitable shrinking of access and escalation of costs, odds are you'll expire before SS anyway.