Used car purchase & legal advice?

Ok Ok...I know, talk to a lawyer. The problem is I can't find any in my area who will even talk to me about this.

I bought a used car for my step-son about 5-weeks ago from a local garage(that happens to be run by a couple guys I grew up with). I had them put the car up on the rack, but missed a couple things. After our first drive of any real distance with the car, I noticed a metallic noise from the right-rear over bumps & around corners. I also saw the right-rear wheel had sever positive camber.

So I called the shop the following Monday & they took a look at it. He said "Oh the backing plate on the drum was rubbing, and it looks like you just need an alignment." Well I finally had time this weekend to put it in the air & check it out myself - the spindle for the right-rear wheel is bent, and the the swaybar mount on that side is broken. So much for dealing with people I know.

Here's where it gets weird: We never signed any type of sales paperwork for the car, never got a receipt, and the title was still in the p/o's name. The only thing I really have showing we bought the car from their shop is a canceled check.

So what I'm trying to figure out is if it's even worth getting a lawyer involved. Unfortunately, the one I usually deal with also represents this shop.

First, sorry to hear that you got what sounds like a raw deal.

Guess my question to you would be get a lawyer involved to do what? What is the end goal you are looking to accomplish?

I'm guessing this is a mechanics' shop? Perhaps they took possession of the car from the PO in trade for work they had done or something like that. Unless you have something to show that the shop was warrantying the car to have no issues, I think this may be a case of "buyer beware".

One of the best things may be to just "make some noise". Shops don't want bad publicity or a bad reputation. They'll fear that more than one person filing in small claims court.

Unless I'm missing something, I wouldn't think it was lawyer time yet.

The shop messed up; whether it was incompetence or malice is uncertain to me. Now that you've diagnosed it properly yourself, have you told them what you've found and given them the opportunity to make it right? I don't know whether they've been sloppy and lazy (e.g. didn't put it on a lift and really look at that corner and just assumed it was alignment) or deceitful (knew it was bent and lied to you).

I have to suspect that from a legal standpoint, the lack of paperwork doesn't in any way mean that you didn't buy the car. You got the title, whether or not you had taken care of processing it through the DMV, no? I assume at that point it's down to what sort of warranty/guarantee was given with the purchase and/or any local laws about used car sales. The lack of sales paperwork suggests no warranty at all.

If you can't find a lawyer who will even talk to you about it, I suspect that tells us a lot about the viability of legal action even if it is called for.

I still think the central issue at this juncture is whether the shop will make it right when faced with the reality of the damage. I probably wouldn't ever deal with them again anyway just for their sloppiness, but I'd ask for satisfaction before trying to sue for it...

I would just fix it, by the time you get a lawyer involved this will cost you even more money.

Sorry

Paul B

I hate to be 'that guy', but you bought a car without a receipt being written and you didn't get the title signed over to you? What's a lawyer going to do, laugh? How did you even get it registered? I'd make nice with these folks until you get them to fix the fact that they sold you a car that had been in a wreck, either a refund and walk (which would be #1) or to fix it correctly (distant #2) and then never talk to them or send any business their way ever again.

Without paperwork, you're boned.

ransom wrote: You got the title, whether or not you had taken care of processing it through the DMV, no?

He has the title in the POs named that was never signed over to him. They could claim he stole it, or that it was a fraud (the PO can easily still get a copy of the title from the DMV and claim the car as of now)

I agree with Paul. Fix it and forget about it. When I sell a vehicle it is with a red light warranty. Once I can't see them, its out of warranty.

In reply to tuna55:

I thought the title part was a little vague... It'd still be registered in the PO's name until he went to the DMV, even though he had possession of a signed title, right? Or maybe I'm just being too literal...

I was thinking that he was thinking of using the lack of completed documents to claim that he hadn't really completed the transaction and bought the car, but now I'm probably being literal and convoluted

I agree with "that guy".

ransom wrote: In reply to tuna55: I thought the title part was a little vague... It'd still be registered in the PO's name until he went to the DMV, even though he had possession of a signed title, right? Or maybe I'm just being too literal... I was thinking that he was thinking of using the lack of completed documents to claim that he hadn't really completed the transaction and bought the car, but now I'm probably being literal *and* convoluted

I've been there before. I had a title in the POs name. Legally, unless you get that guy to sign the back of the title saying he sold it, it's still his. I tracked him down (this was two POs ago, as it sounds like for the OP) and had him request a new title (the recent PO had filled in the buyer but had never done anything with the DMV) and then sign it over to me.

Seriously a pain in the ass. Don't mess with the DMV. They once made me get a du0plicate title (in New York) for putting the mileage wrong in the tens of miles digit.

The shop probably bought it off one of thier customers. Since they planned on flipping it in a short amount of time, they didn't bother registering it to themselves. No DMV or Smog hassle when they sign it straight over to you from the PO. It shouldn't be a problem to prove they had posession of it between owners, but I don't think that gives them any liability to provide a warranty. All used cars are assumed "as is" unless stated (documented) otherwise.

A lawyer would only make what you pay him, it's not a contigency type claim. I could only assume it would cost as much to repair it as it would to pay a lawyer to represent you. If the shop refuseses to take care of, fix it yourself and file a claim in small claims court.

Well I talked to an old friend who's now a lawyer. Apparently, it was illegal for them to sell me the car without them ever transferring the title into their name. It's also illegal for me to use that as leverage to get them to fix it right, but there's no reason I can't turn them in if they don't.

I did talk to the shop again, they're supposed to get the parts ordered & install them early next week at no cost to me. If they screw me again, at least I can do something.

Well, at least it sounds like they're trying to make it right. Hopefully all will go well. PITA though.

Matt B wrote: Well, at least it sounds like they're trying to make it right. Hopefully all will go well. PITA though.

Yeah, right. 100 internet bucks says the part never shows, or is backordered, or when they get the car in, they never get around to installing them. Heck, they may sell your car again for you! You don't have the title in your name, after all. What am I, cynical or something?

Oh, the title is in my name, and back here where it's safe & sound. 8)

petegossett wrote: Oh, the title is in my name, and back here where it's safe & sound. 8)

Pete, it sounds like they're trying to do right by you. As far as their failure on the pre-purchase inspection..If I got angry about every weird (bent rear spindle?) thing I'd ever missed, I'd have to sue myself.

you bought a (hopefully) cheap car. cheap cars are cheap for a reason. fix it and move on.

I do hope that you are taking care of the title and registration issues first. To me, that seems to be the priority.

Don't turn the title over wreck car sue previous owner shop every body , tell shop you will get DMV involved ,,, state tag tax and title guy might wan't a piece also .

Well, at least it sounds like they're trying to make it right. Hopefully all will go well.

+1. I hope they take care of it. "Lawering up" in this situation doesn't seem appropriate. If dude doesn't come through, chalk it up as life experience.

Unfortunately, you can't sue these guys because nothing attaches them to the car legally. Yes you have a canceled check but that could've been a birthday present.

When I buy a car from a private party, the first question is, "Who's name is on the title?" If I'm not talking to that person (or their spouse), then I have to walk away.

If the spindle and swaybar mount are broken / deranged, then the car was in an accident of some sort so look around for more damage as well.

Hopefully they fix it for you in a timely manner. They're probably looking for some boneyard parts so hopefully there's a couple of these cars available locally.

BTW, what kind of car is it? Also, did the PO listed on the title sign it?

Never atribute to malace what can adequately be explained by stupidity.

They very well may have managed to miss the damage back there. Point it out to them, and give them the chance to make it right. If they do, they are an upstanding shop who simply missed a problem.

As for the title, if the paper will get through your MVA/DMV, do it. Yes, it's "illegal", but so what. All that's happening is the state is missing the chance to tax the shop for the title transfer.

That particular form of "illegality" is practiced by a huge percentage of people on this board.

Most states require dealer licenses if you sell more than xx number of cars per year. If they had a dealer license, of course they would have to charge you more. Besides, nobody trusts dealers.

Just saying...

I don't really have a problem with it. Technically, you bought the car from the previous owner, not the shop. But it sounds like they are prepared to stand behind the transaction, which is what matters.

Don't make waves. It just encourages the lawyers, tax people, and the bureaucracy.

They had already proven to me on a previous vehicle that their diagnostic and customer-service skills were nonexistent, and they have the basic attitude of "we don't have a clue, deal with it". The deal was right, or I wouldn't have given them the van for this car, and I certainly entered into this with a buyer-beware attitude - but he also gave me the "we'll take care of you" line.

I just wanted to have Plan-B ready in case giving them the opportunity to fix it fails. I do, now I just wait and see if they take care of it or not.

petegossett wrote: They had already proven to me on a previous vehicle that their diagnostic and customer-service skills were nonexistent, and they have the basic attitude of "we don't have a clue, deal with it". The deal was right, or I wouldn't have given them the van for this car, and I certainly entered into this with a buyer-beware attitude - but he also gave me the "we'll take care of you" line.

Okay, I don't want to be the other "that guy" but if they missed a problem this heinous the first time around, I don't know if I trust them to fix it properly. Hopefully they do.

It probably goes without saying this should be the last time you deal with them in a business capacity.