Vague Career Ramblings

Hmm

<chuckle> Thanks bluej! You just made me smile. Here I pontificate for 300 words and you have the perfect response in just 3 letters!

I have been an engineering manager for several decades and one of my passions has been getting the right people into the right jobs because when someone is doing something they love they just shine! It is great for them, their boss, and their company. Conversely, if you hate your job, or are even just indifferent to it, you can expect so-so results. If you can, why not do something you love to do? Why not shine?

I have the same career path. Manufacturing engineering, and Design Engineering. There are moments where I love my career. Most of the time I hate it. I'm surrounded by incompetent people trying to convince you and everyone else they aren't incompetent. That makes me sound like an shiny happy person, but it's mostly true. I know who's capable, I know who isn't. We keep hiring the latter. 

I've been looking for a new job since April. I'm still at the same. Design jobs are scarce, and any openings are flooded with applicants. Sticking with the same career means I have 8 years of experience. Changing careers means I start out at the bottom. As much as I'd love to get out of this, I cant make significantly less than I make with a family of 5. 

Mechanical engineer here. 

There are good cube farms and bad ones.  You work in a E36 M3ty one.  It also sounds like you aren't really passionate about what you do.

I vote look for a different engineering gig doing something you enjoy*, with a work environment you enjoy.

*I'm not talking about the end result of what you design, I'm talking about the actual act of engineering.

Appleseed said:

Punch unhappiness in the dick.  I don't have a solution, but ever since I did, my life has gotten exponentially better. 

What does this actually mean?  What action steps did you take to do what you're talking about?

Kind of ironic. I'm a Civil Engineer and working from home has driven me mad. I have a nice quiet office but at home I have young (loud) kids and endless distractions. There's also "I have to go here and here, watch the kids while you work kthnx byeee!" I was in the office on Friday and it was great. My wife is going to have a meltdown when I have to go back to the office. 

ProDarwin said:

 

There are good cube farms and bad ones.  

There are "good" cube farms? 

RevRico said:

ProDarwin said:

 

There are good cube farms and bad ones.  

There are "good" cube farms? 

Yes.

There are all types of cubes.  I bet if the OP really thought about everything he disliked about his job, the cubicle isn't really a factor.  The type, layout, general work environment, sure.  But you can have cubicles & a very nice work environment.

In the office I work in (non-covid times), many of the cubes have doors and are effectively offices.  Some areas in some builds are a farm-like with little privacy, noisy, distracting, etc.  Other areas there is plenty of privacy, silence, little distraction and its generally a great environment.  Perfect?  No.  But hardly a big issue in the grand scheme of things.

Again, the more important part of my post is:  have to find something you enjoy.  I am an engineer.  I work for a company in the aerospace industry.  I work on the front end of the business - new products, concepts, creating patents, brainstorming etc.  its very enjoyable.  There are other engineers in the business who do jobs that I could never do - regurgitating the same product with minor changes, certification, etc.  I have had much much worse work environments, but as long as I am doing something I really like, I find that none of that really bothers me.

The work from home thing is interesting.  I don't care too much if I work from home or the office, unless working from home means I can be truly remote and live where I want (Asheville here I come).

Yourself said:

What do you really love doing? What do you do for fun in your free time and how can you incorporate that into something that might pay the rent?

Well, the main things are riding/working on motorcycles, building/driving racecars, and playing drums- all notoriously difficult things to make a living at. 

But in terms of engineering, I like being the first to do something, or at least the first to do it a specific way- for example I did "first 8"+ travel BRZ rally suspension under $1500" this summer for myself.  The interesting thing is that I do get a decent amount of that sort of thing at my current job; I'm frequently in the position of designing the first of some aftermarket widget for a new car, and I get to see vehicles before they're officially released and sometimes even drive around to test stuff.  That's all awesome but working in close proximity to and taking orders from a bunch of people who I have trouble respecting seems to be the thing that sucks the fun out of it, and I have discovered this year that I can tolerate it when they're not actually standing in front of me.

I'm always tempted to try and turn one of the things I do for fun into a career- custom CNC drum kit manufacturer, budget rally suspension company, various types of car/motorcycle dealers, electric motorcycle startup, vehicle exporter, custom motorcycle shop, wheel manufacturer, etc, are all things I've thought seriously about turning my shop into, but then I find a million reasons that whatever it is isn't a good idea and get worried about whether I'd still have time to pursue my own racing efforts if I tried to do any of that stuff.

Confirming that I'm many times happier outside of an office is new information for me, and I'm not sure how to factor it into all this.  I guess I'm still processing it.

I agree with ProDarwin's comments on cube farms.  I've had a couple cube areas that I've worked in that I generally liked.  Most I wasn't that hot on.  I really dislike my current one for all sorts of reasons.  I also agree that if that was my only issues with the job, then the job isn't too bad. But when the work isn't feeling like what I want to do, having to commute to a worse working environment than the one I have set up downstairs in my home is salt in a wound.

In reply to ProDarwin :

I really, really prefer having my own space, and you're right on many factors that make the current cube situation bad- no privacy, lots of visitors, large amount of chatter around mostly from people who are talking squarely out of their asses.  At a previous job, at one point they were moving everyone around and I "claimed" an office for a week since nobody knew where anyone belonged yet; it was probably the most I've ever enjoyed a week of work other than working from home or traveling.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

I really, really prefer having my own space, and you're right on many factors that make the current cube situation bad- no privacy, lots of visitors, large amount of chatter around mostly from people who are talking squarely out of their asses. 

Understandable.  As I said earlier, you work in a bad cube farm :(

It sounds like the work you do is unique in the sense that you can't exactly get on indeed and find a bunch of listings for a job like that.  Would you be happier doing something different if the work environment was better?  Do you think your employer would negotiate if you raised you concerns? 

As for all the stuff you mentioned earlier... yeah seem like good ideas for side businesses, but not something that can replace a full time gig unfortunately.  And then the question is: how much do you value your time?

Working with people you don't respect (or who don't respect you) is incredibly draining.

Same as any other relationship, if there is not mutual respect it is toxic quickly.

There are employers who will respect you.

Wish I could help you bud. Thought of working in a cube is.. gross.

Are you open to different career path? I've had 3 jobs in past 16 years, all very different from each other.

Im delivering sodas now. Pretty physical but keeps you in shape. Never dealing with same people for more then 30 mins at a stop. Sometimes get to go to multiple cities in one day. Get to listen to music/podcast and try new food all the time. Room for advancement if I want work go corporate ladder. 

Just because you specialize in one field doesn't mean you have to stick to that one thing. Maybe try job out of our realm and see how it goes. If it doesn't work out you can always fall back on what you know.
 

Every one of these career threads makes me happy I have the job I do.  I'd rather be waist deep in snow with angry customers than deal with the office nonsense a lot of you do.

As for new working conditions maybe something like this would work well:

As a fellow engineer, the people that you work with and for don't know what they need, when they need it, how long it takes to build, or how much it should cost. Does that feel familiar to you?  It doesn't matter if you are in a cube or your home office; you will be interfacing with a clueless customer or coworker.  It is part of the job. 
 

Welcome to engineering Dilbert! The struggle is real.
The struggle to not strangle the next jughead that shows up at your desk when you are hammering away at a design.
 

Pro tip:

Earbuds are your friend. 

In reply to tester (Forum Supporter) :

I use giant studio headphones instead so that people have a visual indication that I don't want to talk to them- yes, that all sounds familiar.  

An employer that simply announces that "Covid is over" is an employer that you should get away from as soon as possible.  That's simply unforgivable and indicates that the management team may have lots of other stupid, and as Frenchy correctly noted, outdated management techniques. 

Assess your skills, make updates as required, sharpen your resume, and start searching. 

Tangent: As the possessor of an ME degree myself, I'll have to politely disagree with poster Yourself that it is "fantastic".  Demand and pay for ME's is pretty much flat.  They'll always be needed, but there won't be much growth.  Offshoring is driving down pay and opportunities.  If I was 23 again, with a fresh ME degree and knew what I know now about the field, I'd do whatever it took to get into a defense contractor or DoD in a job that requires a security clearance.  

Uncle David (Forum Supporter) said:

  If I was 23 again, with a fresh ME degree and knew what I know now about the field, I'd do whatever it took to get into a defense contractor or DoD in a job that requires a security clearance.  

I did this twice.

beeeeeeerrrrrkkkk no.  Never again.

Yeah, I did government contract stuff, not DOD, but a similar situation. It's a small market with few buyers and serious competition for contracts that take years to win.  If a company misses a bid on contract with a government entity, they tend to layoff half their workforce or more. 

Seriously! Been there; done that, got the company logo shirt.  I wasn't laid off. I pulled the ejection lever and switched industries. Never again! 

In my experience with DoD-heavy companies, the folks that have been around a while are the most inflexible and turf-defending people you will encounter as coworkers, and very much set in their ways. 

p.s. still waiting on Appleseed to come back with this information on how he turned around his attitude.

ME degrees (or any engineering degree) are swiss army knives. You seem to be trying to use only the knife part. I think you'd be happier in something that's more field related, or at least something with less office time. Regardless of the covid situation, I think you aren't in your sweet spot, and should be thinking about what different kinds of work looks like with your level of experience.

My personal journey took me from design, to process engineering, product development and now more customer facing/business development. I have been locked in my bedroom for a few months and chomping at the bit to "get back out there" but no plans to get back to the office. I feel much better when I am only there 2-3 days a week at max, and I work in a pretty good office environment.

In reply to RossD :

I work for an A/E company as well, although I do designs for the pharmaceutical industry (mostly on the manufacturing side).

My company has been surprisingly progressive about the whole Covid thing. Management was very much anti-WFH prior to this, but now it looks like some level of WFH will become permanent.  Of course, being in the pharma world we take it all pretty seriously. The last time I went into the office a month or so ago, it was a bit of a cluster-berk trying to find a seat with functional equipment as my own desk had long been scavenged for WFH parts. We couldn't get everyone back into the office right now if we wanted to as IT would have to rebuild dozens of work stations. Fortunately, management has also recognized WFH hasn't been as disruptive as they previously feared. Projects are still getting done. 

That said, I can say that none of what I work on is as interesting or hands-on as what you do with the automotive stuff, beyond occasionally spending months on-site doing construction design-build admin - which can be fun and profitable, but being away from home for long stretches can kinda suck. 

As unpleasant as they can be, sometimes political problems need political solutions. One reason our company has made these changes is we are struggling to keep staff as there are more positions than experienced workers right now. Can you get a feeling of what your value to the company is? HR typically does not make these sorts of policies on their own. They are getting direction from someone.  I would try to make a personal connection to that person. 

Wow... lots of good ideas above!

Some random additional thoughts:

Life is too short to waste time doing something that you hate. The choices are: hate it, ignore it, fix it, or find something better.

The business ideas are all intriguing, but it takes a lot of different skills to run a business (marketing, sales, finance, personnel, management, purchasing, etc.). Would you be doing the type of work you  enjoy? Turning a hobby into a job often changes the fun part into work.

A lack of privacy, interruptions, lots of people and noise, would drive me crazy too if I wasn't already retired and enjoying the quiet life... For introverts like me, Covid isolation would be restful, peaceful, and allow me to concentrate on what I need to. Of course, some extroverts are climbing the walls and can't wait to get back to the hustle and bustle. I always had to consciously try to be more extroverted and social in my jobs. Understanding the people relationships side of a job is the hardest, but can be the most rewarding, aspect of working in a large company. Looking back, the technical aspects were fun, but it is the people that made it all worthwhile.

When I graduated high school our principal said that we should expect to have about 5 different careers in our lifetime, 3 of which did not exist yet. He was right! The world changes quicker than we think and we should be prepared and look forward to changing with it.

As Paul_VR6 said, engineering degrees are swiss army knives. Some of the many different positions I have enjoyed while working for a couple diesel engine manufacturers: engine mechanical development, torsional  vibration analysis, stress analysis, engine design, wiring harness design, governor tuning, control system software design, systems engineering, control systems architect, managing people and relationships, raising kids, and designing our new house.

It took me a while to learn that what I really enjoy is coming up with creative solutions to intriguing problems, no matter what the focus is on.  It is all just solving problems in a creative fashion and it is all fascinating. An engineering education gives you one set of tools, how you apply them and what you add to them is up to you.

Not too many people get paid to "go racing", but a lot of people get paid for specializing in some aspect of analyzing, designing, or building cars or components related to racing.  

Off the top of my head some car or racing related jobs and companies:
Working for a big auto company (Ford, GM, etc.)
Working for a small auto related company (FFR, Wilwood, Dart, etc.)
Entrepreneur / business owner / Machine shop / parts store / mechanic
Event coordinator
Writer / Photographer
Software developer
- just look through the ads in GRM and you will find many more

And some other semi-related companies:
Diesel engines / small engine manufacturers
ATV / boat / truck / motorcycle manufacturers
Autonomous and/or electric vehicle manufacturers and suppliers

Lots of choices! I feel like I have barely scratched the surface - maybe we should have a thread on car related jobs?

I am an ME by education too. In the 20+ years that have transpired since graduation I have worked a wide range of jobs (automated equipment (large company small plant), medical equipment (at a University), machine tools (small German company), heavy equipment (smallish (135 people) company, operations director at a start up, and engineering and general management for a large corporation. They all have pluses and minuses and none of them were the same at all. If you don't like this gig I would move on, they wouldn't think twice about moving you on if they didn't like you.

My college roommate (an amazing engineer) decided early on that he hated working for large businesses (after stints with 3 of them) and vowed to never do it again. He started working for a small manufacturer where he is the only engineer. He loves it and has been there for over 10 years. He gives up a little on the pay side for that and he has to do roles at all levels of the business but he is happy. 

For me after almost 25 years in manufacturing 7 months of WHF has changed my perspective, I have worked in factories most of my adult life, I have always been happy with it. Not going to a factory for this long has me thinking about how can I be involved in creating new products without going in a factory? I haven't figured it out yet but I hope to soon, the world keeps changing and so do we, it's important to change in a way that works for you and your family.

NYN