As part of due diligence, whenever I am considering a life change, I come here to the GRM Borg Forum to make sure I'm making smart moves. This time I'm actually about to pull the trigger on furthering my education and potential career options by working on and earning a Master's Certificate (so not full MS) in Systems Engineering.
I'm working on requirements capturing / drafting, RFP/RFQ authoring, systems architectures, and related work at my current job. I've got a couple Bachelor's degrees but find my career path is a bit stalled. I like tech writing and the activities mentioned above. The Masters Cert seems like a smart way to find out if this really makes sense before jumping head first into a full-on Masters degree in Systems Engineering. Right now I'm primarily considering going through Colorado State University on this; options here in KS where I live are kind of weak to nonexistent for this sort of program. Co. State's program seems about average in cost per class and the classes are in the catalog for a Master's; if I like where this takes me I can keep working on getting the full Masters, or stop at four classes for the cert. I will most likely have to pay for this myself but that's being worked out. Cost for the cert with Co. State would be "like nice used Camaro money" as I put it to a friend.
Anyone done this? Anyone have opinions on doors potentially opened by this? I'm an EE working in Avionics and do not enjoy programming or other more software-oriented Systems Engineering paths. I had considered becoming an avionics certification specialist but that path looks convoluted and is obviously quiet esoteric whereas systems engineering could in theory allow me to work in different industries should I choose to leave aviation.
Thoughts welcome as always.
I'm a (retired) EE, I've never heard of a master's certificate. I wonder if it's some sort of regional thing...my concern is if it would be something that would be widely recognized. Do you have a professional engineering license? That can be useful but it isn't often required if you're working at a private company.
Yea, what's a Master's Certificate?
Are you planning on changing employers? If not, they would tell you if it would help getting a promotion. If you are changing jobs, the job requirements should be clear about things that add value.
I've used the wrong term, sorry. I meant Graduate Certificate. The coursework for these seems to often come from the same catalog used to get a Masters in Systems Engineering.
Here's the course I'm considering; https://www.engr.colostate.edu/se/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Graduate-Certificate-Flyer.pdf
I share the concern about "would it be widely recognized". Fast searching shows these are available from schools on both coasts as well as the middle of the country. Some are more expensive, some are much cheaper.
I don't have a new job lined up but I would like to change employers. My thought was, find a new role with systems engineering tasks as part of the job and work on this while gaining on the job training & experience at the same time. I don't have a PE and they're not seen as useful in my industry from anything I've ever seen or heard. PE isn't really on my radar, to keep it brief.
As an avionics system engineer with a BS in aerospace engineering and 20 years in a position with that title and nearly 40 in the industry, I'd say it's probably not worth spending your money on. Might be worth spending your current or next employer's money on. My opinion of certificate programs is that they are generally set up by schools to shake down employers paying for the education of full time employees.
My employer seems to have changed some over the last few years-- we've recently hired new grad A&Ps to full the systems engineer role, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It used to be that if you somehow lined up an engineering job in the group without an engineering degree, you'd never get promoted, now matter how capable you were as the result of OJT.
I'll also say that "best practices" like ARP 4754 have taken some of the fun out of the game, imposing way too much rigor to way too little benefit.
"Of course that requirement set is valid-- I wrote it. Having a dozen people peer review it isn't going to improve anything."
Makes me feel like a dinosaur, but then I guess I am.
In reply to Karacticus :
Working next to aerospace engineers for the last 15 years, my employer paid for me to take a Systems Engineering Certificate course through MIT about 7 years ago.
On an educational level, it could be very informative, or it could be completed in as little as 40 non consecutive hours if one were to min/max the syllabus. There was grid exercise I remember learning and using again later in my career.
On a professional level, it got me the level upgrade I was looking for but has done little good for me since then.
I concur with Karacticus - if I had spent my money for that course I would have been greatly disappointed in the amount of new information learned, content with the level of energy required to pass, and disappointed with the career ROI. Any business that sees System Engineering Certificate from MIT on my resume and hires me because of it would probably end up with both of us being unsatisfied.
If this certificate isn't the route to a situation where I could leave avionics engineering, then what is? I like what I'm doing in the systems engineering realm and would like to make that a focus as I believe it could get me into a "cross-industry" career that has a decent amount of remote work options (I live in Wichita, we don't have a lot of other industries I can easily transition to and remain in a STEM role). What's a good way to become an engineer who focuses on systems engineering instead of working on a certificate? I'm feeling pretty burned out on avionics engineering and the few roles I could move into in the city I want to remain living in.
pres589 (djronnebaum) I live in Wichita
Moved away from Wichita and your (assumed) employer 6 years ago...
I work for a smaller company in advanced aerospace concepts, and the increased responsibility allows us to have involvement in the whole spectrum of design, from early requirements and systems definition, as well as white papers and proposals. This follows a quick program through all the way to build and first flight. I personally find this type of work much more rewarding, even from before Earnest killed off Advanced Design.
Anyway, point I'm trying to make is to think about trading your happiness at work versus the benefits that Rectangle Living brings. There's still a lot of good roles out there that would gladly hire someone with your experience that aren't textile manufacturers, guys who drop bombs, or ghosts.
In reply to rallyxPOS13 :
My second stint at the employer, which you correctly identified, was from 2010 to 2016. Sounds like we probably overlapped. Anyway, the thing that really gets me about Systems Engineering is that it's something where remote roles seem more likely to be found, which keeps me enjoying Rectangle Living while also hopefully having a career that spans multiple industries so I'm not so locked into just aircraft stuff.
I keep hearing how valuable my experience is and my varied work history is such an asset blah blah blah I don't really feel like it opens doors so much as it just keeps me involved with a limited number of companies I might actually want to work for. I'd like to change that so if you've got guidance on how I could piece together the career change mentioned above I would appriciate it.
Update: Had a good call with a fellow GRM member who is working in Systems Engineering with a focus on medical devices and processes this morning. Solidified my plan, which is basically to find a new role somewhere that would be that first step as a titled systems engineer at best, or an avionics/electrical engineer working with better tools and processes to learn on the job at minimum (where I'm at now is not what I would consider a good place to really learn this stuff). In the meantime I'm going to study the INCOSE Systems Engineering Handbook with a goal of taking the ASEP certification exam. Also I want to get involved with INCOSE in general & the Great Plains chapter for networking and learning opportunities.
I liked the idea of the formal education aspects of working on a Graduate Certificate but feedback from this thread and some seeprate research makes me question the cost/value ratio of that effort.
