Vegans - Why so serious? :jokerface:

I'm stating right now that I have no problem with Vegans or Vegetarians. It's a lifestyle someone chose for personal or health reasons and I have nothing against that.

However, I treat it like religion. Don't force it on me because I'm not going to force what I believe on you.

I have several Vegetarians in my life and they make due with whats out there in restaurants. They don't have a problem eating at our BBQs and they usually bring their own stuff and don't have a problem with their food being near our food on the grill, etc. We don't have a problem accommodating them either, we make sure that we have stuff for them.

However, the couple Vegan people we know have fits over where their food is cooked, make ordering food at restaurants a nightmare and and push Veganism on you.

Not too long ago, I had eaten dinner at my inlaws and my SIL (who is vegan) was helping me clean up and I asked her to grab a stack of dirty plates and she said no because meat had been on them.

I also have to hear all the time about the wrongs of slaughtering animals and using animal by-products etc.

I'm really tired of it. It just makes for an unpleasant eating time and you can't invite them to anything that involves food it seems like. You can't ever talk about food either (we do all the time because we have friends that are foodies).

Alright I'm done ranting.

Confront then avoid them. Ground rules help also. If they don't want to follow them, THEY can leave.

You're looking at it backwards. It's not that vegans are a pain in the ass, it's that loud, sanctimonious people who think their E36 M3 doesn't stink are a pain in the ass. Whether they be vegans, Mac fans, WoW vs. SWTOR nerds, hemp advocates, whatever.

You probably have plenty of vegan friends who don't annoy you because they aren't constantly berating your cheeseburger.

jg

^This.

When you find a big pot of crazy, it's easier not to stir it.

Yeah, I have had friends that are vegetarian and even vegan that have not given me E36 M3 for eating meat. But, there are plenty of them out there that do give people E36 M3. Its like a morality complex for some. Religion has people that are the same way, some will give you E36 M3 for not following and some will not bother you. Its the general mindset of the person, not necessarily what they are pushing.

These people are not respecting you. They expect you to cater to them. You have every right to rant.

I'm a vegetarian by choice, but I'm not going to force it on anyone else. Besides if everyone became vegetarian, I could no longer afford to eat a salad due to supply and demand.

Then tell these people to keep their spinach away from your burger so you won't get salmonella.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: Not too long ago, I had eaten dinner at my inlaws and my SIL (who is vegan) was helping me clean up and I asked her to grab a stack of dirty plates and she said no because meat had been on them.

Look at it a little differently: would this infuriate you if the person was Jewish and they refused to touch the plates because they had pork on them?

I don't see why this is an issue, honestly. She wouldn't touch the plates with meat on them - that's her having boundaries and stating them clearly. That's not her forcing anything on you whatsoever.

Like most things like this it comes down to fear of the other, she's different from you and any time she expresses that difference it frightens you. Your reaction turns to annoyance.

I like to go to a nice steakhouse and throw pureed wheatgrass on diners and scream "Meat is Dead!"

j/k

trucke wrote: tell these people to keep their spinach away from your burger so you won't get salmonella.

Seriously...this^^

I usually just troll the E36 M3 out of people like that until they leave me alone.

Vegan, make sure your house smells like bacon, all the time. Point out that veganism isn't anything more than a lifestyle choice, like driving a prius and being a douche are.

I got an ex to stop pestering me about my need for Jesus by showing up to her church in a Death shirt. Turns out a metal band with an inverted cross in the name is a conversation starter. Who knew?

dculberson wrote: I don't see why this is an issue, honestly. She wouldn't touch the plates with meat on them - that's her having boundaries and stating them clearly. That's not her forcing anything on you whatsoever. Like most things like this it comes down to fear of the other, she's different from you and any time she expresses that difference it frightens you. Your reaction turns to annoyance.

So, you dont want to help clean up after dinner, even though you accepted my invitation to have dinner at my house, knowing I eat a certain food?!?! guess what @sshole, youre not getting invited to dinner at my house ever again. Its not because I hate vegans, its because I hate shiny happy holes....

what if I refuse to use the local roads because Audis drive on them, and I am a strict nonaudian. I demand my own roads be paved.

...or maybe - I dont want to drink water from the fountain that was used previously by someone of another race - please make special fountains for me and for them, and then label them as such...

4cylndrfury wrote: So, you dont want to help clean up after dinner, even though you accepted my invitation to have dinner at my house, knowing I eat a certain food?!?! guess what @sshole, youre not getting invited to dinner at my house ever again. Its not because I hate vegans, its because I hate shiny happy holes.... what if I refuse to use the local roads because Audis drive on them, and I am a strict nonaudian. I demand my own roads be paved. ...or maybe - I dont want to drink water from the fountain that was used previously by someone of another race - please make special fountains for me and for them, and then label them as such...

You sound angry.

"Not too long ago, I had eaten dinner at my inlaws"

It was not at his house.

But in your hypothetical, if you invite someone over with certain beliefs and refuse to accommodate their beliefs then you are the shiny happy person.

The other two comments are so ridiculous that I don't think they're worth addressing. But I'll give it a shot: The audi one just shows how belittling you are being towards other people's beliefs. You've basically made a joke out of something that they consider serious. Congratulations, you're the shiny happy person again. The race one, well, that's just plain dumb.

4cylndrfury wrote:

dculberson wrote: I don't see why this is an issue, honestly. She wouldn't touch the plates with meat on them - that's her having boundaries and stating them clearly. That's not her forcing anything on you whatsoever. Like most things like this it comes down to fear of the other, she's different from you and any time she expresses that difference it frightens you. Your reaction turns to annoyance.

So, you dont want to help clean up after dinner, even though you accepted my invitation to have dinner at my house, knowing I eat a certain food?!?! guess what @sshole, youre not getting invited to dinner at my house ever again. Its not because I hate vegans, its because I hate shiny happy holes.... what if I refuse to use the local roads because Audis drive on them, and I am a strict nonaudian. I demand my own roads be paved. ...or maybe - I dont want to drink water from the fountain that was used previously by someone of another race - please make special fountains for me and for them, and then label them as such...

Werd...

JG Pasterjak wrote: You're looking at it backwards. It's not that vegans are a pain in the ass, it's that loud, sanctimonious people who think their E36 M3 doesn't stink are a pain in the ass.

Well said.

dculberson wrote: ...I don't see why this is an issue, honestly. She wouldn't touch the plates with meat on them - that's her having boundaries and stating them clearly...

I think that is where it become weird. It really is an irrational demand.. crossing the boarder into some sort of weird religious thing.

It would be like someone who chooses not to drink alcohol (not an alcoholic, that's a bit different) refusing to touch any alcohol bottles or anything that alcohol touched. It doesn't make any sense. They choose not to EAT these things, it not like they are poison to them or something.

You might say that there are a lot of really strange religious behaviors (such as that weird thing that some Jews do where they are not allowed to use any technology on certain days), but that of course is a religion. I am not sure how you can reasonably associate a diet choice with a religion.

As noted though, some people are capable of doing some pretty stupid things, and unfortunate to others who have similar behaviors / beliefs, they tend to attract a lot more attention (bad press). Ask a Muslim about that...

dculberson wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: So, you dont want to help clean up after dinner, even though you accepted my invitation to have dinner at my house, knowing I eat a certain food?!?! guess what @sshole, youre not getting invited to dinner at my house ever again. Its not because I hate vegans, its because I hate shiny happy holes.... what if I refuse to use the local roads because Audis drive on them, and I am a strict nonaudian. I demand my own roads be paved. ...or maybe - I dont want to drink water from the fountain that was used previously by someone of another race - please make special fountains for me and for them, and then label them as such...

You sound angry. "Not too long ago, I had eaten dinner at my inlaws" It was not at his house. But in your hypothetical, if you invite someone over with certain beliefs and refuse to accommodate their beliefs then you are the shiny happy person. The other two comments are so ridiculous that I don't think they're worth addressing. But I'll give it a shot: The audi one just shows how belittling you are being towards other people's beliefs. You've basically made a joke out of something that they consider serious. Congratulations, you're the shiny happy person again. The race one, well, that's just plain dumb.

ok, so lets simplify it a little bit:

Conventional societal norms show that people behave a certain way, and that we all have to play in the sandbox together. For the most part, if I disagree with the way someone behaves, I can either choose to accept it - ignore it where possible, and adapt, or I can choose to avoid it.

If I go somewhere, intentionally, where I know there will be elements that I may not agree with, then, what grounds do I have when I try to force someone to accomodate my difference?

Thats the question I pose to you.

Real world example - In Cincinnati, its been a tradition for decades, that when a Cincinnati Red hits a homerun, or they win a game, fireworks are set off. A year or 2 ago, some apartments were built a block from the park. People chose to move into a brand new building, right next to the park where the Reds have been playing and lighting off fireworks since before the tenants were born.

Now, a group of those tenants want to approve a new zoning ordinance making it a violation to set off fireworks in the area because they fireworks upset their dogs, or make it hard to sleep. So, a decades long tradition, observed and approved of by a very large group, could be ended to appease the relatively unreasonable beliefs of a very few, who intentionally put themselves in the situation they are so opposed to.

who's wrong here - the park, for doing what theyve always done, or the douchebags who put themselves into a loud place, knowing they hate loud things.

I bet the douchbags would say the park is at fault...

And, the "dumb" race one? Im not sure if you ever heard of jim crow laws...but thats essentially what we get when we let this kind of oddball "you gotta appease me" mentatlity, reign, rather than a "suck it up, put on your grown up pants, and get over yourself" attitude that most of us have.

Like I said, I dont hate anyone because of their views, I hate the way their views turn them into dickheads.

4cylndrfury wrote: Like I said, I dont hate anyone because of their views, I hate the way their views turn them into dickheads.

And there we go.

I have another take on this.

Some Tamil people really do have a very strong taboo against touching dead animal or human flesh. I woman I used to work with tried to follow that belief strictly and used a spoon to feed her neighbor's fish their fish food while she was caring for them while her neighbor was on vacation because the fish food had fish meal in it.

Janists won't even eat roots because it kills the plants. That's a pretty extreme viewpoint, I think you have to respect anybody who can have that level of discipline in their life.

Brett_Murphy wrote: I think you have to respect anybody who can have that level of discipline in their life.

I do - I think its wonderful that they believe in something so strongly that it directs their choices. I wish more people lived that way...we would have a lot less problems.

...but I think its crap if they tell me they wont use a shovel that once dug up a root, so now I have to do all the digging in general, roots or not...thats just nuts

Okay, first of all, veganism isn't just a diet choice, it's an entire life style built around reduction of cruelty to animals. I'm not a vegan but I respect their choices. Comparing it to a "weird religious thing" is exactly right - it's far beyond just food. Ask a Jewish person if they would handle pork, they would say hell no. Just because the label applied to their beliefs is less familiar to you doesn't make their beliefs less valid.

Would a Muslim person handle a bottle of alcohol? I'm willing to bet that many devout people wouldn't. I can't speak for them but one example is I knew someone that made barbeque sauce, "Three Little Piggies" brand with a cute drawing of pigs on the bottle, no pig ingredients in it though. He asked a Muslim friend if he would be willing to buy and use that sauce and the friend said no, even with the knowledge that there was no pork in it. So that's even beyond "meat is on the dish" and into "there's a picture of the thing on it."

Oh, side note, that was really good barbeque sauce. Wish I could still find it.

@4cyl, I am quite familiar with Jim Crow laws, my problem is that your comparison of respecting someone's beliefs with supporting racism is berkeleying stupid. You do not advocate racism when you honor a person's wishes to not handle meat. Conflating the two is really, really dumb, I'm sorry.

"If I go somewhere, intentionally, where I know there will be elements that I may not agree with, then, what grounds do I have when I try to force someone to accomodate my difference?"

That's not the actual, real life situation we were dealing with here. We can't cover all hypothetical situations ever, and actually they're a really poor way of trying to have a discussion.

I attempt to eat vegans to prove my dominance.

For some people who are not religious, Vegetarianism and Environmentalism take that place in their lives that a religious fundamentalism would have otherwise.

And then other people, not given to fundamentalism of any sort, can be religious, or vegetarian, or an environmentalist (even all 3!) and not pester the living Jehovah's Witness out of everyone they come into contact with.

I prefer dealing only with the latter type, if I can help it.

4cylndrfury wrote: ...but I think its crap if they tell me they wont use a shovel that once dug up a root, so now I have to do all the digging in general, roots or not...thats just nuts

Ah, I think I might have spotted one thing causing our disagreement then: The dishes almost certainly still had meat on them, otherwise they would not need washed, right? So she was refusing to handle meat, which to me is a reasonable thing for someone that is vegan to do.

It's tough to go anywhere with strict Vegetarians or Vegans. And they aren't all alike. Each one has their own foibles. Some will eat fish or shellfish, others won't. Some won't eat certain veggies or if they are prepared a certain way.

It makes it so that you simply can't eat at most restaurants. And heaven forbid you have more than one in the group because you can't satisfy all of them. This means you have to plan your get togethers around no meal times or snacks of any kind. That's tough to do.

I play with being an almost Vegetarian but as in all things I practice moderation.

It sounds to me like your SIL just didn't want to help with the dishes.

dculberson wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: ...but I think its crap if they tell me they wont use a shovel that once dug up a root, so now I have to do all the digging in general, roots or not...thats just nuts

Ah, I think I might have spotted one thing causing our disagreement then: The dishes almost certainly still had meat on them, otherwise they would not need washed, right? So she was refusing to handle meat, which to me is a reasonable thing for someone that is vegan to do.

The plate she used probably once had meat on it.