Vettel Nay-sayers?

It just occurred to me there hasn't been much noise from the "Vettel doesn't deserve the championship" crowd lately....

And just about every week I'm more impressed with Jensen Button. He seems confident, fast, and either he or his engineer almost always make the right strategy choice. I'm glad he finally is having some of the success that was expected of him when he moved to F1.

Still don't like him, never will.

As we've seen with Schumi, the guy with the fastest car wins and Vettle has had that in spades. Put any of the other drivers in his car and they'd be in the lead as well.

I wouldn't tear down Vettel at all. But there is certainly something to the car. It is a shame that F1 can never level the playing field no matter how hard they try.

The more Schumi finishes mid-pack since his "retirement" the more his prior victories look like car dominance, not driver dominance.

I'm a big Hamilton fan. Almost winning the championship in his rookie year! He kept coming back at Singapore despite a penalty and a broken wing. The penalty was obviously for prior incidents. He has had some bad luck and made some poor decisions, but if he calms down a bit I think he is possibly the best driver out there.

you could put anyone on the grid in that car, and they would win races.

I am not really a Vettel fan but there really is more to him than just a good car. He has the car to beat for sure - and that makes it possible to win races but 11 poles is because he can execute without making mistakes at the limit that car will give him. He does not make mistakes when he is alone and turning fast laps. If the competition had cars that were a little closer - I think we would see him make a few when his mirrors were full but I guess we will have to wait until next year to find out. Or until Adrian Newey retires. Or Ferrari makes him an offer he cannot refuse.

What's a Vettel?

1988RedT2 wrote: What's a Vettel?

A german cartoon character with huge chicklet-like teeth that spits when he talks and is typically so over-the-top upbeat that you can't wait for the episode when the Webber character snaps and beats him within an inch of his life.

Vettel scored points (driving a mid-field car) in his first F1 start; the youngest ever to do so. He won his first race (from pole and in the rain) when driving a mid-field car. He is good enough that someone had the foresight to put him in an even better car. Not much of a gamble but it sure has been paying off big time.

F1 is booooring.

bravenrace wrote: F1 is not as booooring as it used to be, particularly if you watch the action in the middle of the pack.

FTFY, though it does help to have a DVR.

bravenrace wrote: F1 is booooring.

That's just proof you haven't watched it in years.

I love Vettel! Anyone see him on "Top Gear"? He's hilarious, and seemingly without a huge obnoxious ego.

I've never liked Button since he made that "time of the month" comment about Danica Patrick.

Believe what you want. He may not have proven himself to be the best driver ever, but he's also not doing anything to prove he isn't.

The guy is so incredibly consistent that it looks like the car is simply walking away from everyone, but c'mon. Just how hard a driver crushes his teammates is an indicator of their relative skill. When that teammate frequently sets the fastest laps in races, they probably aren't driving a vastly inferior car.

What is the saying ? A good driver can make a poor car go fast. A poor driver can't make a good car go fast. Something like that.

No matter how good a car , the driver is the one that keeps it out of the weeds. Of course, the better the car, the easier it is.

It takes two to tango.

Crushing his teammate isn't an indication of skill when you hear over and over how Vettle has the good stuff and Mark doesn't. They are in the same team, but not in the same car.

carguy123 wrote: Crushing his teammate isn't an indication of skill when you hear over and over how Vettle has the good stuff and Mark doesn't. They are in the same team, but not in the same car.

Yeah, why is that? Is it a question of money? Engineering time? What?

Given the budgets these teams have, it doesn't make sense to me that the incremental cost of preparing both cars to the same standards would be that costly.

Perhaps it has to do with gasp team orders? Not to the drivers, but the support staff-- "we've decided Vettel will be the front-runner, so dial Button back a notch?" If you are going after a manufacturer's championship, that doesn't make sense, either. Unless, perhaps, your contract with one of the drivers says he will be the front-runner and the other is, well, an also-ran, if you will forgive the phrase. In that case, you purposely handicap the second driver to keep the first happy, and/or so #1's points don't get diluted....

carguy123 wrote:

bravenrace wrote: F1 is booooring.

That's just proof you haven't watched it in years.

Agreed.

I watched when I was younger, then stopped in college, picked it back up in 2007. Every season since has been more exciting than the last.

F1 is full of Varsity and JV teams under the same banner. McLaren is the only front-running team that doesn't.

Sorry, meant Weber, obviously, not Button.

Basil Exposition wrote: Sorry, meant Weber, obviously, not Button.

Vettel and RBR are locks for the the WDC and WCC this year. The kid has been consistently faster and has raced smarter/better than Webber all year. Those are obvious reasons why "team orders" are not in place this year.

Now, if the RBR drivers were taking each other out allowing other drivers to accumulate wins and points, I think the team would make a decision and force it on the drivers. You know, like what happened a few times last year.

carguy123 wrote:

bravenrace wrote: F1 is booooring.

That's just proof you haven't watched it in years.

How so?

racerfink wrote: F1 is full of Varsity and JV teams under the same banner. McLaren is the only front-running team that doesn't.

Then what is Force India?

bravenrace wrote:

carguy123 wrote:

bravenrace wrote: F1 is booooring.

That's just proof you haven't watched it in years.

How so?

Because, since Fernando Alonso started challenging the Schumacher establishment in 2004, the racing has gotten increasingly more exciting every year. 2007, 2008, and 2010 came down to the very last race to decide the champion! (2008 was the final corner).

can't understand how anyone can say he isn't a phenomenal driver..
I prefer Alonso, Button, or Hamilton by far, though, maybe just because Vettel never makes mistakes. RoboVettel!

seems like everyone is forgetting last ... made enough mistakes that the commentators were wondering about his future / ability to make decisions under pressure ... this yr... looks like he's come to grips with what's expected

and as to his getting better equipment ? how come RB qualifies 1/2 so often ? Webber's inability to start puts him so far back he really doesn't have much of a chance

Basil Exposition wrote: I wouldn't tear down Vettel at all. But there is certainly something to the car. It is a shame that F1 can never level the playing field no matter how hard they try. The more Schumi finishes mid-pack since his "retirement" the more his prior victories look like car dominance, not driver dominance. I'm a big Hamilton fan. Almost winning the championship in his rookie year! He kept coming back at Singapore despite a penalty and a broken wing. The penalty was obviously for prior incidents. He has had some bad luck and made some poor decisions, but if he calms down a bit I think he is possibly the best driver out there.

is it possible that the fact that he's in his 40s is a contributing factor in his mid-pack finishes and his mistakes that he didn't used to make ( his team mate isn't finishing all that much higher... some but not much)

really not convinced his penalty was for past acts.. as much that he took out a "contending" car.... Massa wouldn't have won ( by any stretch of the imagination ) but he would have scored more championship pts if no flat tire