Osterkraut wrote: and as mentioned earlier a lot of these people don't want the stigma attached to the Volt.
which is crazy to me, the implied political stigma. Volt was in development to be in production far before Obama or even a bailout was mentioned.
Chris_V wrote:aussiesmg wrote:Your elantra cost more than a $500 Geo Metro, and even with repairs, the Geo woudl be a better choice economically. Your Elantra cost more than my Mustang, and is less fun, especially since you can't put the top down. Therefor, your Elantra sucks as a car choice for anyone. Why spend more money to get less, right? Same kind of logic. No, you bought a new Elantra because you wanted a new Elantra. Not because it's THE most financially wise/fun/whatever choice. We can go round on it all you want, but the fact is, we don't expect any other kind of car to be 100% perfect for 100% of possible buyers, yet you expect that from a car like the Volt. Ludicrous and hypocritical.Chris_V wrote: You don't buy a new car to save money, you buy a new car becaeu you want a new car. If youre going to buy a new car anyhow, then you prioritize teh things that you need, and if better fuel costs after teh purchase are a big deal, then a car like teh Volt is a perfect alternative to a slightly cheaper gas car that will use more fuel for your day to day use.100% wrong in my case, by buying my Elantra it saved me $350 more than the repayment on fuel alone at $4.00 per gallon, which was the price at the time of purchase, however even at $2.50 a gallon I was still ahead financially. I very carefully worked out that my new car would cost me less.
I just bought a $400 Geo Metro. Not to save money, but because I really wanted one. Is that strange?
Snowdoggie wrote: I just bought a $400 Geo Metro. Not to save money, but because I really wanted one. Is that strange?
Not for around here.
if they really want it to take off, they're gonna need to probably take a loss or just break even on the car in order to get the people that will buy it for the mileage to actually buy it.
I'd love to have one, but there's no way in hell I'll pay 40k for a car that isn't a sports car, and its a slim chance I'd do that.
Doesn't nissan take a loss on every gt-r sold because of how expensive it is to produce? THAT is what you need to do to make waves with a car for a unique demo, make it cost LESS than it should.
People in big cities pay large amounts of money to buy Range Rovers that they never even take off road, just because other people think they are cool. If Volts were fashionable people just wouldn't care about price, performance or anything else. They would just buy them because other people thought they were cool.
Maybe you could get fashionable left coast liberals to buy them just because they piss Rush Limbaugh off.
Hey, wait a minute...
Otto Maddox wrote: I can't believe I am saying this, but you people have me thinking I need to lease a Volt. In like 12 minutes, I'll be back to thinking I need a 240Z or a Boxster S, but still...
I have never, and likely will never, consider leasing any car. But then, I have never, and likely will never, had a car loan either.
I'm interested in hearing more of this twisted "it's the republicans' fault for not buying volts because they hate Obama" logic. Brilliant. Is there a chance that people just don't want to pay 45,000 berkeleying dollars for a spontananeously combustible GM hunk of E36 M3? I mean, they build such high quality, reliable, 4-cylinder economy gasoline cars, which is reflected in their stellar resale value, surely they've got all this new technology down to a science, right?
Honda Fit EV will be available in TEST markets (amazing how car companies that have an incentive to turn a profit make wise business decisions like that) next summer, for ~$36k. Expect better results than the Volt, with $0 forced 'investment.' - or not. Maybe it'll tank. Either way, I doubt Honda will have to shut down production and layoff employees, and even if they do, you and I won't have to pay for it.
Big pimpy features like spontaneously turning into a ball of fire may cost extra.
The buy-in is high. The cost of getting out of one is probably much higher.
Since almost everyone can agree that the price tag on this car should be lower, I think it is safe to assume (although too early to confirm) that the resale price on the used car market is gonna be pitifully low.
If you are calculating the price of owning one based on the fuel consumption, better include the depreciated resale value. You're gonna put much more into this car than you can sell it for.
It's too small a niche market. Not enough buyers to keep the price up.
The consensus on this board was a big thumbs down a year and a half ago:
We were in agreement that it was overpriced, and the number we were then discussing was $32K. 
Did we have access to information that GM's marketing department did not?
Looks like the real cost (including the cost to taxpayers) is significantly more:
Every Volt includes incentive cost of $250K PER CAR
Well, $250K loss per car isn't too bad, compared to the $1 million per car lost on the EV1. GM is improving, and this time they were smart enough to get someone else to pay for it (you and me)!
GM might need to work a little harder at their advance market analysis.
How'd that whole lease thing work out last time with the EV1 by the way? Did you have the option to buy at the end of the term, Ed Begley Jr.? Nah, your E36 M3 got squished into the Xbox I'm about to go play Forza on. I WISH there was a Cavalier! Damn. I should write a letter.
I wonder how many GRMers are hyperventilating right now?
Joey
poopshovel wrote: How'd that whole lease thing work out last time with the EV1 by the way? Did you have the option to buy at the end of the term, Ed Begley Jr.? Nah, your E36 M3 got squished into the Xbox I'm about to go play Forza on. I WISH there was a Cavalier! Damn. I should write a letter.
These are regular for-sale cars: you CAN buy them. The EV1 was lease only and the whole idea was to give them back, they said so UP FRONT. The Volt lease is an entirely different animal. It's simply the more cost efficient way to drive one.
The problem with the volt was the make: Many of the people who balk at the idea of paying $40K for a basic utilitarian chevy would think differently if it was sold as a cadillac. Add some leather seats and a decent sound system, then you can justify the cost just because it is a caddy.
JoeyM wrote: The problem with the volt was the make: Many of the people who balk at the idea of paying $40K for a basic utilitarian chevy would think differently if it was sold as a cadillac. Add some leather seats and a decent sound system, then you can justify the cost just because it is a caddy.
This. They should have thrown Caddy badges on it and it would have sold better at that price.
93EXCivic wrote:JoeyM wrote: The problem with the volt was the make: Many of the people who balk at the idea of paying $40K for a basic utilitarian chevy would think differently if it was sold as a cadillac. Add some leather seats and a decent sound system, then you can justify the cost just because it is a caddy.This. They should have thrown Caddy badges on it and it would have sold better at that price.
Then we could have had a Volt V, or maybe not.
not a bad idea... or a buick
I don't get the leasing hate. I think it is some sort of Dave Ramsey effect. I pay cash for my cars in general. But if I can have a lower cost of ownership by leasing, I lease.
...and in the case of the Volt, it sounds like leasing is the way to go. If my cost of ownership for the next three years or leasing a Volt would be lower or similar than leasing/buying a similarly equipped Prius, I'd probably go with the Volt.
Bailouts, Bush/Obama hate, etc. have zero influence on my buying decision. People just look for E36 M3 to be angry about...
Interesting on the right-wing radio show yesterday - lots of Volt hate. Those guys don't get it. The Volt was in concept before Obama was IN OFFICE, yes they attribute it solely to him.
They use that idiots $1.16/kwh as fact, without even bothering to check their own utility bills.
They use the fire at the NHTSA (which GM could have easily prevented by providing a power off emergency procedure in the manual, their fault, really) as proof that it's unsafe.
It's all very silly. Why not just stick to facts? Batteries are not 'green' to make. The buy-in is awfully high to expect any kind of payback.
Opinions like: The federal government shouldn't have bailed out GM or should not be subsidizing EVs are fine to discuss, but should go hand in hand with removing the same subsidies for oil companies.
Glad to see we're smarter than those guys here.
I suppose the only way it would make sense is if the lease costs were less than the operating cost difference between the volt and your current ride - resale/months of ownership. Other than that, I'm looking at a Cruz or Elantra for a fuel efficient ride (if I was in the market)
Otto Maddox wrote: I don't get the leasing hate. I think it is some sort of Dave Ramsey effect. I pay cash for my cars in general. But if I can have a lower cost of ownership by leasing, I lease.
These days, with most leases you are just paying depreciation anyways.
Otto Maddox wrote: I don't get the leasing hate. I think it is some sort of Dave Ramsey effect. I pay cash for my cars in general. But if I can have a lower cost of ownership by leasing, I lease.
I agree. I mean, I agree in theory, but I have never leased a car for the cost of ownership reason. I drive so little that at my last check (around new years) I had driven my van and my car total less than 3000 miles since june. I may get 10-15 mpg on premium, but it would take a crazy long time for another car with high mileage to pay itself off. That's where I see the problem. Fuel savings per miles are big, but the people who drive short enough distances every day (and therefor wouldn't need to worry about the range problem with the battery) would need a much longer period of time before the budget would balance out. The battery might even "age out" and need replacing, adding to budget woes. '
Assuming I do all of my driving in my van at 10mpg (it's usually a little higher, but i'll use 10 because I suck at math) and drive 6000 miles a year (again, I do less than that but just for simplicity) I would need 600 gallons of gas. At $4.50 a gallon ( i'm guessing it's not long now...) that would be $2,700 a year for fuel. Assuming I got a Volt for 30K it would take over 10 years to even out if the volt took $0 per week to run.
Of course there are added costs to my old van. It takes an average of $200 a year in non-general maintainance (ie. stuff that wears out because its so old/gets ripped off by "wildlife encounters" at 70mph) and truck registration is a bit more than car registration, but really that doesn't bode well for an electric car in my future. I mean, beyond the fact that I don't have $30K to blow on another car...
I think a lot of the Volts and others problem is that the general public is resistant to new technology. Just like the long mileage oil change. Many still change at 3k miles. People reisted tubless tires and the radial tires. Etc.
In reply to iceracer:
A friend of mine was furious that his company was switching over to Ford Fusion hybrids as company cars. His reasoning - his company pays for his gas, now he was going to have pay for the electricity to charge his car.
Example 2 - another friend got a Lexus hybrid as a service loaner. When I was in it, he pointed to a sunglass compartment or something and said "I think that is where you plug it in."
Both of these people are well educated professionals. The average person knows jackE36 M3 about cars.
it's a low mileage lease with a $2,500 down payment. No thanks.
And that $7,500 tax credit doesn't apply to everybody, you have to make enough money to get the full credit. Lower income, lower credit.
Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to iceracer: A friend of mine was furious that his company was switching over to Ford Fusion hybrids as company cars. His reasoning - his company pays for his gas, now he was going to have pay for the electricity to charge his car. Example 2 - another friend got a Lexus hybrid as a service loaner. When I was in it, he pointed to a sunglass compartment or something and said "I think that is where you plug it in." Both of these people are well educated professionals. The average person knows jackE36 M3 about cars.
Nice...
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