VW's magic particle-reducing software

I'm both impressed and upset that VW would employ a piece of software that causes its diesel engines to know when they're being emission tested, and reduce emissions in those situations to pass.

Apparently the recent diesels are actually producing 40x the EPA limits. Not sure what the ramifications are going to be for diesel owners, but it could be costly for VW.

You wonder if this is why other manufacturers (Mazda, etc) couldn't make a go of it with diesels in the US. Also makes me wonder what else manufacturers are cheating on.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/vw-may-not-be-exxon-but/105878/page1/

Interesting story for sure.

Sorry. Looked for a previous post! Can I mention I'd love it if people made more descriptive thread titles?

Yeah this is pretty egregious.

As a '11 TDI owner, my car falls in this debate.

I'm assuming it was done to benefit mpg's and prolong emissions control devices like the costly DPF, which already often fails between 100-150K miles.

So going out on a limb... but I'm guessing if I get the reflash, less mpg's and quicker failure of components? ugh.

History repeats itself. The big rig boys faked emissions testing and lost big more than a decade ago: http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/b1ab9f485b098972852562e7004dc686/93e9e651adeed6b7852566a60069ad2e

"DOJ, EPA ANNOUNCE ONE BILLION DOLLAR SETTLEMENT WITH DIESEL ENGINE INDUSTRY FOR CLEAN AIR VIOLATIONS ... The complaint alleges that the companies violated the Clean Air Act by selling heavy duty diesel engines equipped with “defeat devices” -- software that alters an engine’s pollution control equipment under highway driving conditions. The defeat devices allow engines to meet EPA emission standards during testing but disable the emission control system during normal highway driving."

Kinda makes me glad that my mother made the mistake of owning an 01 passat once so VW was already on our list of "never buy" manufacturers

Original link isn't working.

I wonder if this is an industry-wide practice that VW was the first to be caught in, or if it was just VW? I remember a few years ago the VW Touareg was up there with the Veyron as the most-polluting new production car, I thought that was unusual.

Yeepers VW is going to be in a world of hurt. You can get people killed with defective air bags and ignishen switches that turn off but mess with the EPA and look out. I really mean this the issues noted above have killed say 200 people? And ingered another 1000? (I am compleetly guessing at these numbers) The EPA is going to look at this as if VW is intentionally hurting 100's of thousands of people. Even millions by polluting.

I am a lienced inspector in the state of MA and I have to take a refresher course every year and they HAMMER home the importance of the testing and the compliance. Fines (big ones) and Jail time for an inspector that lets one car get through a MA emissions test intentionally are the norm. This could result in a HUGE pay out or a by back of VW's that are non complaint. If the emissions related equipment on the car can not meet the requirements of the Feds in terms of longevity if they re program the cars the cars can not be re programmed as that is just taking a car that violates one law and making it violate another to get around the first one.

I really can not wait to see how this one plays out.

Story I found on this.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2015/09/18/epa-volkswagen-used-software-skirt-emissions-rules/72399372/

Wait.....when did Bill Belichick become CEO of Volkswagen?

Using software to cheat performance testing is old stuff in computing. I remember about a decade ago Nvidia made a card with drivers that would run differently if you were running the ultra-popular 3Dmark video benchmark software. And a few years ago, Samsung and some other manufacturers were caught using special profiles to make their phones run differently when running benchmarking programs. Guess it was only a matter of time until it made it to cars.

How long until a sports car uses its backup/lane hold cameras to recognize what the inside of a dyno shop looks like I wonder...

I have also heard of ISP's de-throttling the IP addresses of known speed test sites.

I wonder if this will be another case where not one person will go to jail, and the $18 billion dollars will just vaporize, with no tangible benefit going to owners or the environment?

Didn't Cadillac get caught doing this exact same thing about 10 years ago?

the death of the brown manual diesel wagon happens yet a again. I guess I should've bitten the bullet on the cayenne diesel that I had been debating in the spring.

I own a '12 Jetta TDI 6sp and did receive a letter from VW that told me that they wanted to reflash my ECM the next time I brought it in for service. When I called to schedule this they told be it was an all day thing when the letter said a couple of hours. I passed on that and am still waiting to take it in for an oil change and other scheduled service at the 24K/2yrs mark.

I don't plan on having this done if I can avoid it since I would guess that what ever they do will reduce MPG's and that's why I bought this car. 40+ MPG's on every tank but 2 since I bought it.

GameboyRMH wrote: How long until a sports car uses its backup/lane hold cameras to recognize what the inside of a dyno shop looks like I wonder...

Nissan already did it. The R34 or R35 would know by GPS when it was at one of a few selected tracks in Japan and would alter itself accordingly.

Reuters Article...$18 Billion!!!!!!!!

bastomatic wrote: Sorry. Looked for a previous post! Can I mention I'd love it if people made more descriptive thread titles?

Ditto, I almost posted again till I saw this....

I wonder, if the reflash lowers mpg's is VW going to reimburse owners the difference like Hyundai does on my Elantra?

Knurled wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: How long until a sports car uses its backup/lane hold cameras to recognize what the inside of a dyno shop looks like I wonder...

Nissan already did it. The R34 or R35 would know by GPS when it was at one of a few selected tracks in Japan and would alter itself accordingly.

Not the same thing...it alters itself by unlocking the 180kph top speed limiter and allowing some other electro-nanny changes. I don't like it, but it's no form of cheating.

It could do a lot of harm to VW if it turns out the TDI doesn't get near the MPG it did pre-flash. There are lots of TDI owners who love the fact that they get Prius efficiency while being "clean" diesels.

Now, I wonder if any other manufacturer is doing this? Chevy? Dodge?

In reply to GameboyRMH:

Cheating emissions testing this way is nothing new.

Pontiac got busted for it in the 1970's with the Ram Air V engine.

The emissions system worked long enough to get through the emissions test (15 minutes or so) and then shut down.

Datsun1500 wrote:

jimbbski wrote: I own a '12 Jetta TDI 6sp and did receive a letter from VW that told me that they wanted to reflash my ECM the next time I brought it in for service. When I called to schedule this they told be it was an all day thing when the letter said a couple of hours. I passed on that and am still waiting to take it in for an oil change and other scheduled service at the 24K/2yrs mark. I don't plan on having this done if I can avoid it since I would guess that what ever they do will reduce MPG's and that's why I bought this car. 40+ MPG's on every tank but 2 since I bought it.

I love all of the owners saying they will not get the re-flash because it will hurt performance and mileage. Most bought these because they were "eco friendly". I guess that goes out the window if the cost of actually being "eco-friendly" hurts your wallet. Hmmmm

i've always thought that the claim of those things being "clean diesels" was kind of suspicious... every time i've been behind one, i can always smell the diesel and even newer ones puff black smoke when they accelerate hard. i just wish i knew someone that owned one so i could mock them..

PHeller wrote: Now, I wonder if any other manufacturer is doing this? Chevy? Dodge?

I know for a fact that some manufactures will go out of there way and spend good money to test other manufactures emissions when there mileage/performance claims are just "a little to good to be true", I have personally seen it happen. but a diesel car that gets 40+ mpg isnt anything out of the ordinary for other car manufactures to second guess.

All this drama over piddling little bits of particulate. I'd be willing to bet that that if you added up the total added pollution of all 485,000 VWs is still less than what a brodozer in full coal rolling mode puts out.