GameboyRMH said:In reply to Steve_Jones :
And like any of those threads, you attempt to ascribe systemic issues being discussed to some vague personal failings of mine.
You find a different "systemic issue" every other week while the rest of us just figure it out. You can't say "That's like saying that Godzilla is a movie about Tokyo having a lizard problem" then claim it's not about you.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
I dunno... Something is different nowadays. My experience:
Something is different this time around. Part of it is that I have been looking for more senior positions, which take longer to fill - harder for both parties to find the right fit... but these are not any more Senior than my last 2 positions.
I don't know what you're qualified for, or what your field is.
I've always been self-employed or worked for a small business.
Can you not double-down on the side-hustle you've already got or just hang your shingle out and get work?
Don't let someone else decide if you can go to work or not.
All I've ever done when I'm between for-real jobs is open the shop door and get my ass to work.
In reply to ShawnG :
I didn't go into a ton of detail, but I am pushing my side gig as hard as I can, selling/flipping E36 M3, setting up a business for my wife, and for 75% of it my wife has been working 2 jobs. I have had a job since 13, and 2 jobs since 18.
Not to toot my own horn, but I am competent, hard working, and eminently employable. I'm comfortable in saying that something is different now with the environment or system or market, whatever you want to characterize it as. It is worth talking about to figure out how to navigate it.
Want a job? Move to Grand Junction and walk into any construction company, then show up on the first day. They haven't been able to find enough workers for the past three years. We have trouble when trying to hire people to work in our warehouse as well.
Personally, I've never actually been qualified on paper for any real job I've held. It's always been due to experience or inadvertent networking. While I've been with the same company now for 23 years (!), I went through three in 18 months before that.
In reply to mtn :
I agree that it's different now. Very different. All through 2023 I tried to find a new job. I get messages from recruiters every day since my specialty field of civil engineering is in high demand. Still, the hiring process was a disaster. I had about 20 zoom calls, a few in person interviews. It was all spread out over months. Two-three weeks of hearing nothing then ghosting. Just horrible.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
True about construction companies. In most growth parts of the country.
I'm glad I'm not job hunting.
mtn said:In reply to Steve_Jones :
I dunno... Something is different nowadays. My experience:
- 2012 - graduated college and immediately started a job. A little different as I had 2 college jobs and was looking for a year, but couldn't start until I graduated. Got the job in April.
- 2014/2015. Looking for more money, moved to get a new job. Search took 3 weeks to the offer.
- 2017 - wasn't really looking but applied to some. 4 weeks between start of applications and a new offer.
- 2018 - laid off, first offer in 3 weeks, 2nd and 3rd offer in 5 weeks.
- 2021, looking for more money, offer in 4 weeks - I didn't take it, benefits sucked and netted me less money overall despite paying 15% more.
- 2023, laid off. 4 offers within 6 weeks
- 2024, I had to resign for personal reasons. I've now been job hunting in earnest for 12 weeks with nothing to show for it, not even an interview.
Something is different this time around. Part of it is that I have been looking for more senior positions, which take longer to fill - harder for both parties to find the right fit... but these are not any more Senior than my last 2 positions.
Is that 6 jobs in 12 years? Not to say I would round file your resume, but it would at least send up a flag that this person is one of a few options:
Peabody said:In reply to 93gsxturbo :
To his credit, things are really not good here. My company is painfully slow and currently has a hiring freeze, the main reason I'm going back temporarily. It's not the only one I know of, either, and people I work with have relatives new to the country that can't even find jobs in fast food. It's tough here right now
I have heard Canuckistan has a lot of problems with jobs, something to do with allowing students to overstay their visas. Are you guys eligible to work in the USA? If no, how hard would it be to become eligible to work in the USA? We are litterally posting signs on the streetcorners looking for employees, and not burger flipper wages either.
I would stay away from large corporations. I got laid off from one of the biggest ones because they decided to shut down our entire department and outsource to an outside company. It was nothing personal. It had nothing to do with job performance. To the C level executives I was just another name on a roster. I would look at smaller organizations. Extra points if they don't have to clear every employee through an HR Department.
I would also get out of computers or engineering if I could. High Tech Firms in general treat their employees like crap. If their stock is down and they can't figure out why, it's layoff time again. You might make less money in other fields, but there would be more job stability. The unemployment rate is low and the only people I know who are unemployed are in the computer field. Why is that? Is everybody going to coding boot camp now. Are there too many H1Bs getting into the Country? Everyplace I know is begging for workers, except for computer companies.
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
Toss it if you want, but this is the norm these days. Employees can't afford not to jump, it's the only way we can keep our salaries up.
And before I had to resign from my last role for personal reasons - I'd have been covered under the FMLA had I been there longer than 3 months - I'd been with the prior company for 5 years through 3 promotions before getting caught up in a layoff with 5,000 others after a horrific merger/lose $20B/spinoff. I didn't really see myself leaving that company and actually hope to be back there. I actually turned down a job offer from them before my severance ran out, in hindsight I wish I took it because I would have had FMLA, but at the time the job I took was the one that made the most sense.
93gsxturbo said:Peabody said:In reply to 93gsxturbo :
To his credit, things are really not good here. My company is painfully slow and currently has a hiring freeze, the main reason I'm going back temporarily. It's not the only one I know of, either, and people I work with have relatives new to the country that can't even find jobs in fast food. It's tough here right now
I have heard Canuckistan has a lot of problems with jobs, something to do with allowing students to overstay their visas. Are you guys eligible to work in the USA? If no, how hard would it be to become eligible to work in the USA? We are litterally posting signs on the streetcorners looking for employees, and not burger flipper wages either.
It looks like the Canadian government has thrown the door wide open for immigrants from India and they are getting a lot of help from shady "immigration consultants" who take your money and promise work permits and citizenship, in some cases illegally, and at the same time that the United States is tightening up on immigration. They are also making lots of money from foreign students who graduate and then want to stay in Canada.
ShawnG said:I don't know what you're qualified for, or what your field is.
I've always been self-employed or worked for a small business.
Can you not double-down on the side-hustle you've already got or just hang your shingle out and get work?
Don't let someone else decide if you can go to work or not.
All I've ever done when I'm between for-real jobs is open the shop door and get my ass to work.
My field is IT, I've done full-stack LAMP web dev, Linux admin, DB admin, VoIP admin, network setup, graphics/video/audio editing, some non-web programming, and hardware work on everything from rackmount servers to phones.
I don't have much of a side-hustle, I've done some freelance IT support but the work comes along in irregular spurts and could easily turn into the seventh circle of on-call hell if I tried to make a full-time job of it, so I've been saving the option of expanding that as a last resort.
Every human being who can't afford to start their own business has no choice but to let someone else decide if they can go to work or not. A new business, on average, costs about as much as a new 4-door sedan. For example if you have a shop to open the doors of, I'm sure it has a good few grand of tools & equipment in it before even getting into the real estate costs.
However I did have enough money to start my own business fairly recently. I thought I had a brilliant and innovative idea for a business that only had new motor-scooter startup costs and started it earlier this year, but due to shockingly low demand it turned out to be unprofitable. I have one more job lined up for it which I'll likely struggle to break even on and will probably be the last. I've been thinking that I should try pawning that whole business off to someone else for a bit more than what I've put into it.
93gsxturbo said:Is that 6 jobs in 12 years? Not to say I would round file your resume, but it would at least send up a flag that this person is one of a few options:
- Someone who isn't invested in continuous growth within the company, just looking for the pay and title bump
- Someone who oversells their abilities significantly
- Someone who is really tough to work with
- Someone who has other underlying issues that make them a prime candidate for first on the chopping block
My wife's resume was not unlike that years ago. Three different companies cratered. A consulting company whose 'solution' to a client's sexual harassment was to move her to an internal position nearly 2hrs from home rather than reassign her, bashing her for making an issue out of it. Another had a massively toxic work environment.
Then she worked somewhere for 10 years before her current position, where she's coming up on 10 years.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Don't let the internet statistical averages stop you. I've started businesses 4 separate times with $0.
It can be done.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
The business you started...
Im pretty sure it's more technically advanced than I am, so I won't even try to offer advice on that. But I'm also pretty sure that your business model may have been similar to something I have experienced...
A great idea or invention is NOT a business. A good business is offering customers something they want to spend money on, even if you think it's stupid.
I did ok with my construction career. But my great Achilles heel was that I truly believed if I offered a great product, people would buy. THIS IS NOT TRUE. I would have been able to retire 20 years ago a very wealthy man if I had put my pride aside and STOPPED building what I knew was a great idea and a really good product, and started giving people what they wanted to buy (which I thought was crap). There are thousands of builders who have done this and made fortunes with significantly less talent than I have.
Your skills are solid. If you want to try to have a business, offer something people WANT (even if it's basically a stupid idea).
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
That's a part of it, but there are other problems. A year ago a lot of companies were still hiring like gangbusters. I posted a thread about 7 months ago when it became obvious things were slowing down. It has since slowed down even more. I think this time we beat you into recession for a change.
mtn said:In reply to 93gsxturbo :
Toss it if you want, but this is the norm these days. Employees can't afford not to jump, it's the only way we can keep our salaries up.
With every reward there is a risk. Sounds like the risk is you can be seen as a job hopper and passed on for the next guy. Was the reward worth it?
Peabody said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
That's a part of it, but there are other problems. A year ago a lot of companies were still hiring like gangbusters. I posted a thread when it became obvious things were slowing down about 7 months ago. It has since slowed down even more. I think this time we beat you into recession for a change.
I still don't see that we are in a recession in Texas. Things are still booming here except in Austin where the Silicon Valley Bros are actually pulling out. I think we are in some kind of tech recession. I hear a lot about tech companies laying off because they want to get more into AI, whatever that means. I also hear lots of ads for boot camp computer schools where you could go for six months and get a high paying secure career. I see a lot of guys taking a few computer classes and then getting a job without worrying about getting a degree. Are these the new unemployables? I see salaries in the computer industry coming back down to earth. Maybe the tech boom is just over.
Steve_Jones said:mtn said:In reply to 93gsxturbo :
Toss it if you want, but this is the norm these days. Employees can't afford not to jump, it's the only way we can keep our salaries up.
With every reward there is a risk. Sounds like the risk is you can be seen as a job hopper and passed on for the next guy. Was the reward worth it?
Steve, I don't know if you're trying to come off as a condescending dick, but you are accomplishing it.
I am not complaining about the situation. I'm stating that the environment today is more challenging than it has been in the past 12 years.
Was the risk worth it? Yes, undoubtedly. First jump was to move to an area with much more opportunity, as well as family. It was a geographic decision and I couldn't keep my job. It was a good decision on every level.
The 2nd jump was for more money. It was a bad position at a bad company, it was not at all what was advertised. Rather than sit and rot, I jumped again. I was there for 5 years. It was a good position with a good company, and though there were big issues I had, I'd do it again every single time. I'd never have been able to afford the 2020s if I hadn't made that jump when I did.
Then I got laid off. I found a new job for a few months then had to resign to take care of myself and my family. There were things 100% outside of my control that contributed to everything that happened. It is not complaining to state that.
Now if you have anything constructive to add, let's hear it... Got an idea for a business? Got seed money for one? Got a way to get your resume looked at that can AI proof it? Got a good area to jump to for a finance guy? Tech guy? Marketing guy? Know somebody who is looking for work that accepts resumes the old fashioned way?
It's a public forum. There is ALWAYS good feedback and bad.
mtn said:In reply to 93gsxturbo :
Toss it if you want, but this is the norm these days. Employees can't afford not to jump, it's the only way we can keep our salaries up.
That's not necessarily true, but if your belief is that job-jumping is the key to financial and professional success, then I really hope you are successful.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median length of employment is 4.1 years.
But that varies significantly by age group:
- Millennials: 2 years and 9 months,
- Gen-Xers: 5 years and 2 months
- Baby boomers: 8 years and 3 months
- Gen-Z: 2 years and 3 months.
Averaging 2 years at each job for 12 years is pretty short.
The perception may be that it's the only way to keep salary up, but that may not be accurate long term. Especially when you include the lost salary between jobs.
In reply to SV reX :
I am above the millennial average if you include my side gig(s), and damn near it if you don't. Andthis is the first time I've had any downtime without severance.
I don't really get this. You all say it is in our control to get more money, so we do. Then you say we are doing it wrong for getting the money we know we're worth? Bearing in mind that I'd just been in a job for 5 years?
Eh, this thread has devolved into predictable patterns. I'm going back to my job search. Good luck everyone.
In reply to mtn :
I didn't say those things, and I wasn't talking to you. I said I'm glad I'm not job hunting (which is agreeing with you)
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