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foxtrapper
foxtrapper SuperDork
11/10/10 6:11 a.m.

While searching around for some sticking trumpet valve solutions I stumbled across an interesting camera shutter repair post.

"Follow-up on WD-40 as a lubricant-

My school was kind enough to let me use their NMR, IR, and GC-Mass Spec for analysis. Proton NMR indicated that there were nothing but single bonds present, meaning, essentially, that the oil in WD-40 contains only alkanes. IR confirmed this.

GC-Mass Spec showed no less than 100 different isomers, however roughly 95% were in the C9-C14 range.

There seemed to be no other impurities that could potentially cause problems. It seems to just be a very high grade lubricating oil. In fact, the IR spectrum was about an 80% match for Sigma-Aldrich brand high-grade vacuum pump oil.

I thought you all might find it interesting to know just what's exactly in the oil you're using."

The thread that comes from is here: http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/forum/messages/13061/9684.html?1184334788

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 HalfDork
11/10/10 6:25 a.m.

I prefer to think of it as a magical mystery in a can. There are some things that we simply are not meant to know.

bravenrace
bravenrace Dork
11/10/10 6:55 a.m.

Al Cass's "Fast" lubricant is what you want for trumpet valves. If a good cleaning and this lube doesn't do it, then you have a bigger problem. I know that's not what this post is about, but still....

jrw1621
jrw1621 SuperDork
11/10/10 7:07 a.m.

I don't know anything about trumpet playing but I think this clip has some good trumpet playing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynxNBN2KcJc

carguy123
carguy123 SuperDork
11/10/10 8:10 a.m.

I've always heard WD40 was mostly kerosene and scent and wasn't good for lubrication. Now you're telling me there are oils and other good stuffs in it?

foxtrapper
foxtrapper SuperDork
11/10/10 8:21 a.m.
carguy123 wrote: I've always heard WD40 was mostly kerosene and scent and wasn't good for lubrication. Now you're telling me there are oils and other good stuffs in it?

I'm as surprised as you. Though I'd always thought/heard it was fish-oil of some type, not kerosene.

Trumpet valve problems are old, loose, and side thrusting. Was trying the Yamaha Vintage oil, with mediocre results. Took them out and rubbed them down with some white lithium grease, that helped a fair bit (gleened from one of the trumpet forums). Thinking of trying some silly things, like break-free and triflow.

Horn was disassembled and cleaned, but when my ultrasonic cleaner unit shows up, I'll probably do it again.

Enggboy
Enggboy New Reader
11/10/10 9:25 a.m.

In high school I played both the slide and valve trombone. I found the slide 'bone MUCH more difficult to keep properly and consistantly oiled. While I never used WD-40, a few of the old-timers I knew used regular Pledge for their slides. Give a quick spray on both sides, play, then when you were putting away the instrument, wipe the slide clean with a cotton cloth.

They swore by it, but I never tried.

donalson
donalson SuperDork
11/10/10 2:16 p.m.

pledge + slide trombone = good... known many people including pros to do it...

al cass fast is what is in my trumpet case... it's not bad for how rarely I play... pull out the horn and lube up the valves and i'm ready to play... but when I played regularly i hated how frequently I had to lube with al cass... went to zaha blue i think it was... would last for weeks before I had to relube... by the time it needed a relube it would get a good valve cleaning with whatever valve cleaner i'd found... don't recall what it was but it worked for me on all my horns... student or pro horn a like.

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/10/10 2:22 p.m.

Here's an old news story and they no longer use propane but it's still interesting. Especially this part:

its product, which is in 80 percent of U.S. homes

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1996-10-14/business/1996288113_1_wd-40-touched-live-wire

Propane in WD-40 gives rise to lawsuits Lubricant's maker faulted in explosions Legal affairs October 14, 1996|By BLOOMBERG BUSINESS NEWS

SAN DIEGO -- Leon Fields was squirting WD-40 under his Winnebago camper to stop corrosion, one of the advertised "1,000 uses" for the spray lubricant, when the can touched a live wire and another piece of metal and burst into a fiery ball of oil and propane.

"It just spread like napalm," said Fields, a 58-year-old mathematics teacher who was burned over 24 percent of his body in the accident in 1994.

Fields sued WD-40 Co., the lubricant's maker, and in December he walked away with a $5 million settlement.

Incidents like that are common for the company. Since the late 1970s, there have been dozens of claims and lawsuits. Many, like Fields', are by customers injured by exploding WD-40 cans that use propane as a propellant.

The San Diego-based company's strategy is to settle out of court -- as quietly as possible. In fact, WD-40 still hasn't mentioned the rash of injuries and suits in any securities filings. The most recent quarterly report says only: "The company is party to various claims, legal actions and complaints arising in the ordinary course of business."

Consumers haven't fared any better. The company didn't change the label on its flagship product to warn that its cans could blow up if they touched live wires or battery terminals until earlier this year.

It still doesn't test the safety of its products. And it made its product, which is in 80 percent of U.S. homes, safer only after a California environmental law forced the company to do so.

WD-40 says that it doesn't feel obligated to tell investors and consumers about the product's problems. "It's not known what the risk is," Chief Executive Gerald Schleif said.

Even if the company thinks it can prevail in court, some authorities say, the best policy is to be open with customers about the risks.

"You have to avoid being convinced by your own rhetoric," said Harvey Pitt, a former Securities and Exchange Commission general counsel. "You have to say, 'What if this were true, is there something more we should be doing?' "

Being taciturn hasn't hurt WD-40 yet. Net income reached a record $20.5 million in 1995, up from $15.3 million in 1991, and the stock has been trading at 47, not far off its all-time high of 50.

So far, insurance has covered almost all of the legal settlements. But if plaintiffs' lawyers succeed in winning punitive damages, California and some other states require the company to pay.

The most serious cases against WD-40 involved cans that exploded after touching electrical parts or wires, according to documents obtained by Bloomberg Business News through a Freedom of Information Act request.

These include:

In November 1988, Dan Horton of Ocean Springs, Miss., was lubricating a wall fan with WD-40 when the can touched a live wire. The container burst into flames, burning Horton's 18-month-old daughter, Lauren.

Three days later, in Jackson, Miss., William Sharp was spraying a speedometer cable in his truck when the can touched an amp meter. The can exploded, trapping his wife, Susie -- who survived -- in the flaming cab.

In April 1994, Toni McLane of Yreka, Calif., was using WD-40 to quiet a squeak in a dryer when the can touched a live switch. It blew up, burning her face and arms.

WD-40's problems with exploding cans began when the company switched in the late 1970s to propane as a propellant after federal environmental laws restricted use of Freon, according to testimony by WD-40 technical director Ray Miles in one lawsuit. While Freon doesn't burn, it damages the Earth's atmosphere.

Two months ago, WD-40 changed its propellant again -- this time to far safer carbon dioxide -- after California placed new restrictions on releasing volatile compounds into the atmosphere.

In August 1995 -- before the new state regulations took effect -- Miles said in a deposition that the company wasn't considering using other propellants because they wouldn't work. In a deposition in November, when the switch to carbon dioxide was almost completed, Miles shifted position and said WD-40 could have made the change years before.

The company also never researched coating its cans so that they wouldn't conduct electricity, executives said.

CEO Schleif defends the company's decision not to move faster in replacing propane by saying that the company depends on its suppliers and contractors for improving its technology.

"Research and development wouldn't have helped," he said. In fact, the company has no research and development budget.

WD-40 has just 145 employees, 30 of whom work in its one-story headquarters. They take 300 orders daily, buy advertising space and use a 12-foot metal vat to mix the concentrated "secret sauce" that fills a million cans weekly.

WD-40 keeps costs down by sending the concentrate to independently owned packagers, who dilute the concentrate with mineral spirits, put it in cans and add propellant.

This bare-bones approach resulted in profit margins last year of almost 30 percent of sales.

Unfortunately for WD-40's shareholders and consumers, there are millions of older cans filled with propane in circulation. It could be another two years before they're used up, CEO Schleif said.

That's why the company is seeing an "escalation in the number of lawsuits," Schleif said, which he expects "will probably continue for a year or two."

Pub Date: 10/14/96

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/10/10 3:00 p.m.

I feel like any kind of pressurized flammable product in a can will explode if you run enough electricity through it, not just WD-40.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/10/10 3:05 p.m.

I pay a little extra for the WD-41.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
11/10/10 3:58 p.m.
pinchvalve wrote: I pay a little extra for the WD-41.

WD-40, WD41...whatever it takes...

I was always amazed at how much WD-40 helped when grinding aluminum with a carbide burr.

It made it almost pleasant (as pleasant as launching razor-sharp slivers of aluminum all over you and everything you're working on can be).

Clem

novaderrik
novaderrik HalfDork
11/10/10 4:13 p.m.

if you really want to know what's in WD40, just look at an MSDS sheet for it. all the ingredients are spelled out..

http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd494716385.pdf

just yesterday i learned that WD40 is something that you don't want to have anywhere near any sort of precision measuring equipment like micrometers and what not. over time, it gets displaced by water and the tools rust up.

aircooled
aircooled SuperDork
11/10/10 4:19 p.m.
novaderrik wrote: ...over time, it gets displaced by water and the tools rust up.

Which is interesting, considering WD stands for "Water Displacer".

CarKid1989
CarKid1989 Dork
11/10/10 4:32 p.m.
Enggboy wrote: In high school I played both the slide and valve trombone. I found the slide 'bone MUCH more difficult to keep properly and consistantly oiled. While I never used WD-40, a few of the old-timers I knew used regular Pledge for their slides. Give a quick spray on both sides, play, then when you were putting away the instrument, wipe the slide clean with a cotton cloth. They swore by it, but I never tried.

wish i woulda known this back in the day. i used to play the slide trombone as well. school band, and some competition.

sweet instrument but i wish i woulda learned guitar too

aircooled
aircooled SuperDork
11/10/10 4:39 p.m.

Otto_Maddox
Otto_Maddox Reader
11/10/10 4:41 p.m.

As a younger man, one of my favorite uses for WD-40 was as a flame thrower. How can you not know it is flammable?

Derick Freese
Derick Freese HalfDork
11/10/10 6:19 p.m.

When I played the slide trombone, I used Al Cass exclusively. I only played middle school and a bit here and there, but back in middle school, I was only lubricating about twice a week, even during concert season. I wasn't playing a quality instrument, either.

TJ
TJ SuperDork
11/10/10 6:23 p.m.

I think I'd be willing to suffer a little burn by using a pressurized flamable liquid and flamable propellant on some electrical arcs for a cool $5 million. I guess it does really pay to be stupid.

novaderrik
novaderrik HalfDork
11/11/10 5:15 a.m.
aircooled wrote:
novaderrik wrote: ...over time, it gets displaced by water and the tools rust up.
Which is interesting, considering WD stands for "Water Displacer".

yes, that's what it does- it displaces water. but over time, it kind of displaces itself and allows water back in.

i'm not a fan of WD40 for most things- it's good for getting rid of surface rust and stuff like that, but as a lubricant or penetrating oil it is junk in most applications.

bravenrace
bravenrace Dork
11/11/10 7:15 a.m.
Trumpet valve problems are old, loose, and side thrusting. Was trying the Yamaha Vintage oil, with mediocre results. Took them out and rubbed them down with some white lithium grease, that helped a fair bit (gleened from one of the trumpet forums). Thinking of trying some silly things, like break-free and triflow. Horn was disassembled and cleaned, but when my ultrasonic cleaner unit shows up, I'll probably do it again.

Well you have bigger problems than valve oil then! Aren't you getting air bypassing the tubes? What kind of trumpet is it? You either need it rebuilt, new valves, or both. But unless it's a valuable trumpet it would make more sense to just buy a new one. I'm sure you know all this, so why am I telling you? Anyways, I'd be interested in what horn you are talking about.

bravenrace
bravenrace Dork
11/11/10 7:15 a.m.

In reply to novaderrik:

Its also pretty good at removing adhesive without damaging sensitive surfaces.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
11/11/10 7:30 a.m.

and it smells delicious

bludroptop
bludroptop SuperDork
11/11/10 7:37 a.m.

I have heard that WD-40 is an excellent fish attractant - spray it on your lure.

Actually, I think that they used to advertise this.

bravenrace
bravenrace Dork
11/11/10 8:03 a.m.

And if you put it in a pressurized sprayer, it make a really good flame thrower fuel.

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