Weird situation at work

DISCLAIMER: Do not take me as a whiny, ungrateful employee, please. I'm very grateful to have a job, and i do not wish to rub in the faces of others that may not be so fortunate.

So, a couple weeks ago i was informed that i was up for promotion.

They've offered me 12% increase (standard step promotion is 10-15% increase). The money is not the issue.

There are three job functions in my unit. Customer service, Claims, and Multi-Functional. I am a "Multi." This means that i've been trained in both categories, and that i do work pertaining to both. Multis make more than either customer service or claims, and claims makes the least.

I am currently a "Multi II."

Now. They are doing away with the "Multi" designation because it was found that MOST people with that title were really doing one or the other, not both, due to business needs. I don't fall in this category, because what i do isn't really in ANY of these job descriptions in the first place. Without getting too in to the details, i do systems testing, write process workflows, work directly with sales, business and systems analyst teams, and our client themselves along with customer service and claims to make sure that this new process for "co-mingling" RX and medical is working smoothly. (It's not. That's why i'm working 60 hour weeks, and why i'm fixing the process, which is really the analysts' job.)

Raises are good. Since they're doing away with "Multi", they've offered me "Claims III."

BUT, what they've offered me is LESS than every Customer Service III employee makes in this same unit, and i am more senior than any of them, and not to toot my own horn, i am WAY more valuable to the company than any of them. Terrible thing to say, but it's true. I started with this company as Customer Service, and volunteered to do what i do to help out the unit and ensure that we keep this client that we're having problems with.

With this raise, it's become apparent to me that i would be making MORE money now if i had just stayed with Customer Service, done half the work at best, and not volunteered to learn all these other systems/processes and to fix all these problems.

I'm almost inclined to turn down this raise. Not from a money standpoint, because more money is always good, but for the principle of things. I've already fought this out with my manager, and they aren't coming back with any change in the offer. I'm not looking for MORE money than the customer service area, i'm very used to acheiving more production than anyone else in the unit for the same or less pay, but i'd like to at least be paid the same as these people.

Basically, i feel shafted more in that this shows me that my manager considers me LESS valuable than these other employees, while i bust my ass for 60 hours a week for months on end, regularly hit 200% or higher of production standards, and continually help those same people that make more than me when they're stuck on customer service issues, because i know the answers, i know how to fix them. I've got more experience, and way more working knowledge.

The catch: I'm NOT supposed to know how much these people make, so i can't use that as leverage.

Here's my choices:

1) Take the raise, suck it up. This locks me into that position for another year "under contract." There are loopholes to get around that, mainly "business needs," but most hiring managers in other departments will try to avoid that situation.

2) Turn down the raise, wait for something in a high level unit to come up. (Client Migration, Business Analyst, Auditor, etc etc etc.) No guarantee that anything will open up, or that i'd even be the top candidate for that anytime in the very near future.

3) Somehow fight the issue further with HR. No idea how i would do this, considering that i'm not supposed to know what anyone else makes. I can use Market Reference Point salary figures to my advantage, but this location typically pays below that anyways, because of the low cost of living in this area.

Has anyone else here ever encountered anything like this? I fear this will be a losing battle, being that this is a HUGE Corporate company and in the end, i know i'm not REALLY that important to the company as a whole. But on the flip side, if this unit loses me, i can guarantee with 99% certainty that they WILL lose this client. It would take easily 6 months to prepare another candidate to get a handle on what i do daily, and at least that long again to bring them up to speed, since i'm the only employee in National Operations that has been working on these new systems since the beginning of 2009. They haven't brought anyone else onto it yet, because the kinks aren't ironed out, so therefor, no training yet.

I'm afraid this post may come across as being in poor taste. I assure you, it's not meant that way. I am grateful to have a job.

Thanks in advance for any input.

I don't consider this poor taste. I know that the "be grateful for having a job" people are out there but on the other hand, you'd expect that if you're that valuable to your company they'd show a little more gratitude than what seems to be a middle of the road increase. Not to mention that there seems to be a seniority issue here, too.

First question though - have you made your manager(s) aware of the additional work you are doing and the fact that you help out customer services with their job at the same time? Do they really know that? Or do they see someone who takes 60 hours/week to do a job they think can be done in 40-50 because they don't see the extra work?

Does your option (1) lock you in in the "can't walk" sense?

Option (2) would have the issue that I'd expect - like in any large corporation - your manager would have to consent to you moving on internally. If you're that valuable to him, well, guess the most likely outcome.

Option (3) - can you use something like salary.com to show if you are underpaid at a local level? Unfortunately they seem to use job titles so that might not work in your favour but it might be worth a look.

My advice? If this does make you long-term unhappy, I'd consider option (1) unless it removes your ability to walk (which might or might not be legal) and if you're still annoyed in a month, go polish your resume and go look for a job. If you've got a proven track record and you're good at doing what you do, I'd think you might be able to find something else if you're willing/happy to move. And if not you can use another offer as a negotiation point with your boss.

I pick door number 1.

Ask if you can take a few days off to think about it, if you have vacation time to cover. Some places will be more aware after your absence. On the other hand - it will be harder to go back to work when the work starts again.

Just an idea.

I know at my work we are union based and so the ones who work the hardest are the new guys making less than half of what the old timers are making. It came back to bite them a little when they had lay offs and some of the regulars didn't know how to do their jobs. The new guys had been doing them to the new specifications and the old timers had been screwing around.

Has anyone else here ever encountered anything like this? I fear this will be a losing battle, being that this is a HUGE Corporate company and in the end, i know i'm not REALLY that important to the company as a whole. But on the flip side, if this unit loses me, i can guarantee with 99% certainty that they WILL lose this client. It would take easily 6 months to prepare another candidate to get a handle on what i do daily, and at least that long again to bring them up to speed, since i'm the only employee in National Operations that has been working on these new systems since the beginning of 2009. They haven't brought anyone else onto it yet, because the kinks aren't ironed out, so therefor, no training yet.

sounds like this is your argument. either they don't value you enough, they don't realize this, or they don't think you have the stones to turn it down.

question though, is the "claims III" title merely in name only and you'll just be doing the same thing you are now, but getting paid more to do it? or will your job actually be changing and you'll be getting paid less to do the same work as the other claims III folks? sounds like it might be the former and the title change is just a way for them to be able to give you more money

Take the money and suck it up. You can't buy groceries with principle.

Working more hours for less money is your fault. Stop doing it.

If it were me, I'd be pretty happy with a 12% increase unless I knew that it was leading to a complete career dead end. You know, like once you are labled X, you can only ever be X at this compnay. However, I also think it sounds like you have been incorrectly labeled. If you aren't doing the work of label X, why should you be constrained to that label and pay grade if you are actually doing Y. I'd push for a new label.

Take my advice with a grain of salt, since I have never really been in the same boat. I've pretty much always made up my own job title.

Yeah, door number 1. Look for a better job with another company if you feel shafted but don't quit what you have and if they want to give you more money, take it. However, you can push a bit of "Hey, I'm worth more than that. I know 10-15 points is the normal bump here, but how's about 18 points for me 'cause I'm so good?" But take the 12 if that's all you can get. Then start looking around. And start working 40 hour weeks instead of 60. 60 hour weeks for 40 hour pay is "SUCKER." BTDT. Every time I get a new boss, I have to tell them "Ass, gas or grass, nobody rides for free. That means I sell you 40 hours a week and if you want more than 40, we need to renegotiate. Oh, and sorry you got the burned out Hess instead of the naive Hess."

As one of those (seemingly) terminally unemployed (19 months and counting) I don't think there is anything at all wrong with this post. I think if someone took it as offensive or ungrateful, they got issues. I'd reject the raise (if they do KNOW what you do for them) and look elsewhere. And starting tomorrow, I'd be doing my job to the letter, nothing more, nothing less.
Too many times did I decide to pick up more of the load of S%T and get nothing more from the higher-ups than the expectation that I'd continue to pick up more S!T. But remember, in this job market they have all the power. They know you'll have a bear of a time getting another job (not that you'd tell them this) and there will be 50 qualified folks looking to fill your shoes.

BoxheadTim: If i choose option 1, the manager would have to consent to me leaving for another position for a year. Option 2, i DO NOT need manager consent to move. Only HR and the hiring manager. They ARE aware of what i do, and that i'm doing it faster than anyone else is able to. For a new unit that formed jan 1 2010, they hired THREE people to do the work that i do. I regularly hit 200% of production monthly, they know that i'm not working 60 hours a week simply because i'm slow.

Strizzo: I'd be doing the same thing i am now, still labeled incorrectly, because there truly isn't a title for what i do. Just with more pay. I'm doing more than other "Claims III" people, at the same pay. More than "Customer Service III" people, at less pay.

WilD: It won't constrain me. I could move up and into another field within the company NOW, if there were openings. It would just constrain me for one year. This definitely is a case of job title X, but doing Y work, and i've been caught in this since i moved out of my hired in position about a year and a half ago. I've already been E36 M3 on for a year and a half, i'm just a little (justifiably, i hope) miffed at getting E36 M3 on again, with the expectation that i'd take it and accept being E36 M3 on for another year.

Hess: The company itself isn't REALLY the problem here. It's a great company to work for. Manager seems fruity, though.

Boost: I won't leave the company. The structure of this company is a little hard to get a handle on, i think. Over 4000 people work in this building alone. There are at least 30 self-sufficient units of ~30 people, all reporting to higher units, and bunch of other support units. The issue isn't with the company, it's with the manager who decided that i get the 12%. If i reject the raise, i'll be looking for another job function within the company at a higher pay. Going to another company probably wont garner me equivalent pay and benefits, assuming that i end up in the same job function i'm in now.

Couple points that i should have made:

1) I work hourly. Yeah, i work 60 hour weeks, but i get paid for every one of those hours.

2) No title really exists for what i do. I'm given my current title simply because i'm in "Operations," and staying out of management, there's really only 4 titles. Claims, Customer Service, Multi (going away), and Hotline Rep. I'm really none of those things. I DO process claims. I DO work customer service issues. I DO sit in on calls to the clients directly and handle escalated issues like a Hotline Rep. In addition, i troubleshoot new processes/flows/systems. I improve them. I write new workflows. I train. Etc etc etc. All these things that i do, though, have made great connections higher in the company, and have prepped me very well for an Analyst job in the future. So no, i wouldn't have done anything different if i had to go back and do it again, and i'm not trapped.

I'm glad that nobody has taken offense as of yet. It's quite another story on the forum that i copy/pasted this post from.

Take the money. See what happens in your "new" position. It takes 6 months to settle in at a new gig, once you've done that you only have to stick for 6 more under contract, and then, if it sucks, you can bid for something else, with a 12% higher "I can't take less than I make now" number. If you're not having to learn a new gig, you should be ecstatic your company is offering you a 12% raise at all and not saying "the economy stinks, everybody's looking for work, let's see how much work we can pile on these three people that used to be a department of eight- if anybody cracks, we'll just hire 2 recent grads to do the work of one of these senior guys and pay them each 25k a year."

1) Knowing what other people make at your job is one real good way to get unhappy. This is a situation to be avoided. so:

2) Take the money.

3) Brush off the resume and dust off the interview skills.

4) In 12 months, present management with the job offer you landed, get them to counteroffer (hopefully for another 15-20%) and promote you. If you're that good, they will. If not, bail and try out a new employer.

There's your 1-year plan. Congratulations, where can I send my consulting invoice? (I'm hoping that a year from now the economy will be picking up some more, so this isn't just a pipe dream- we'll see....)

I'd say your situation is pretty much awesome, when viewed in that light.

in that case, maybe tell them you wish to be "customer service III", with the associated salary that goes with. otherwise take the offer, and after a year and with all of the connections you've made, start shopping yourself around within the company.

Strizzo wrote: in that case, maybe tell them you wish to be "customer service III", with the associated salary that goes with.

I definitely considered this. I'm not sure how well that would go over, though.

Pros: Less work. Less challenge. Less hours. The same or more hourly wages.

Cons: Less Challenge. Less hours. Less "hey look what i did for you" aspect. And i do enjoy being the "go to guy" (or the National Division Garbage Disposal, whichever way you look at it.)

I was original in Customer Service, but i got bored. It was too easy.

Like i said, my beef isn't really the money aspect. I make sufficient money now without the raise. More is always better, but my main beef is that for whatever reason i got 12%, and even when i asked, i haven't been given an explanation, or what to improve to get the 15%.

According to salary.com, using Customer Service III as a title, i am on the border of bottom quartile and mid-market range.

That's the figure i got based on the promotion.

well, if you would be a "claims III" in title only, and they want to give you a raise, while letting you do the same job, it seems like they're recognizing your exceptional work and trying to reward it.

and of course it is about the money, otherwise you wouldn't have made this thread. that's ok, its good to be driven by profit. if theres no motivation to do better, then whats the point of even showing up?

Strizzo wrote: well, if you would be a "claims III" in title only, and they want to give you a raise, while letting you do the same job, it seems like they're recognizing your exceptional work and trying to reward it. and of course it is about the money, otherwise you wouldn't have made this thread. that's ok, its good to be driven by profit. if theres no motivation to do better, then whats the point of even showing up?

Hrmmm... i'm not sure that we're on the same page.

I would be "Claims III" in title only, doing the same job that i was doing before as "Multi II." I would normally go to a "Multi III" but they're doing away with the "Multi" title across the entire company.

They are recognizing that i'm due for a step up. My beef is that for easily twice the work of what has been shown is necessary for the 15% raise by the last three people promoted to "Customer Service III", i am granted 12%, and even after prompting, can't be explained to why i don't deserve the 15%, or what i can improve on in the future to try to get 15% next time. (Which won't happen anyways, because III is the last of the step promotions)

You're right, money IS a small part of it, but the actual financial impact of the remaining 3% will "only" be somewhere around $2000 taking into consideration the overtime i work. That doesn't tick me off as badly as getting the middle of the road raise for way above exception performance, when it's obvious the same standards aren't being applied elsewhere.

This all said, i'm going to sleep on it tonite, and probably accept the promotion tomorrow, and then dust off the resume this weekend and see what's out there mainly for research purposes. I don't really want to leave the company. I don't think it's a company issue, just a combination of some slightly fruity managing and probably some of it my fault with my willingness to take on anything and everything in the first place, putting me in a position that nobody has really seen before. There's no existing standard that really describes my job, and therefor no existing standard by which i should be paid.

+1 for sleeping on it. Probably even sit on it for a couple of days until you're reasonably sure you're taking the right course of action.

I would be ecstatic to be offered a 12% raise for doing the same job I do now. They could call me E36 M3head IV for all I care. I took on the work of two people who got cut last summer as well as my own and got a 3.5% raise. At this point I am just glad to have a job. That doesn't mean that I've stopped looking for a new one however. Just was fortunate to be able to turn down an offer this week for a job with much more job security, but a rather large drop in pay.

I think sleeping on it is a good idea. I would say that a 12% raise is a very good raise in this day and age, especially for doing the same job that you are already doing. Look at it as recognition of a job well done. Do what you can to make sure your management understands your contribution to the company without becoming a blowhard or a whiner (not saying you are either, just saying don't become one, but still toot your own horn a bit.) and see where things go from there. If you truly feel underpaid/overworked either find a new job or stop over achieving. The most common reward for good work is more work- that sucks, but that's how it is.

In reply to TJ:

I gotta agree with TJ, same job lower expectations, 12% more pay and a new job title.

However you might want to counter offer. I would find out the old pay range for Multi III, and ask for a salary in the middle of that range or higher. It is a pretty reasonable argument to make, I would be a Multi III making X, but now you want me to be a Customer III making Y; I wanna make X.

Negotiating with HR is ALL about pay ranges, and then asking to be in the right spot for your range. Everybody likes to quote the % pay increase limit for raises; but what that really means is that above the "limit" some Big Wig in HR has to approve it. My 45% raise was approved by a VP of HR; the hiring manager literally couldn't believe it. But then I used to work for the VP of HR :)

93celicaGT2 wrote: According to salary.com, using Customer Service III as a title, i am on the border of bottom quartile and mid-market range. That's the figure i got based on the promotion.

Two tips for using Salary.com.

1) Make sure that you data search by zip code so that you are looking at the correct region.

2) Make sure to read the Salary.com job description so that you you have the right job content and right job level. Internal company job titles and those used salary data sources can be very different. This may seem pretty obvious. However, I do compensation consulting for a living and have had to sort out more than one problem that came from job title confusion.

With regards to your original question, I suggest option number 1. Though it goes against my principles to see people misclassified, if your manager is firm about the terms of the offer he made, taking the arguement to HR is a risk. Basically the outcome will be most dependent on the skill of the HR people handling it. As someone who works in HR deperments for a living, I have seen far too many clueless idiots muck this kind of thing up for me to suggest it without knowing a lot more of the specifics.

Timeormoney wrote: In reply to TJ: I gotta agree with TJ, same job lower expectations, 12% more pay and a new job title. However you might want to counter offer. I would find out the old pay range for Multi III, and ask for a salary in the middle of that range or higher. It is a pretty reasonable argument to make, I would be a Multi III making X, but now you want me to be a Customer III making Y; I wanna make X. Negotiating with HR is ALL about pay ranges, and then asking to be in the right spot for your range. Everybody likes to quote the % pay increase limit for raises; but what that really means is that above the "limit" some Big Wig in HR has to approve it. My 45% raise was approved by a VP of HR; the hiring manager literally couldn't believe it. But then I used to work for the VP of HR :)

That kindof opens the E36 M3storm of how they probably boned me when i first went to the "Multi" designation.

Put it this way... what they just offered me with my "Claims III" title, is a whopping 4 CENTS more an hour than what the middle range of my current "Multi II" title is.

"Multi III" middle range is well over a dollar more an hour than what was offered. Probably more like $1.50/hr more.

That just brings us back into the issue of not being able to be classified.

And you're 110% right on the increase limit. That 15% is the max that she can give without having to answer to anyone. I'm not asking for more than that, really, though it'd be nice. I just want THAT, since she can't tell me why i don't deserve it, but these other people do. If i've been told for the last year and a half that i do a great job, get more work done than they thought was possible, and how impressed they all are that i haven't had an audit error in over two years, etc etc etc... then WHY am i not getting the 15%? That's the issue.

Why not 15%? The economy? Is it possible they are trying to keep you but she hasn't been authorized to give you as much as they used to give the position? No offense intended, I really am asking.

I would take the raise and the new title and start working on my resume. It's not about the money or the title, it's about getting respect for what you bring to the table. This is all just life finding a way to motivate you to move on to a job where your skills are recognized. Listen to that little voice inside your head that says you have been looking for a reason to move on since before this all went down. This is just a polite kick in the pants to get moving on that.

And, good luck!

I AM SO OFFENDED BY THIS, AND THAT MAKES YOU A BAD PERSON!

Ok, now that I got that out of the way

There's a saying I like, that I think fits your situation. The best whore in the whore house, gets berkeleyed. It's frustrating. You try hard because you have good work ethic, hoping to stand out, only to feel slighted.

+1 to the see take the raise and run in year (if you can).

I see this sort of thing all the time where I work. It is all wrapped up in "policies." They can't give you more than 12% to move to the new job because it is "policy." They won't give you more than a single-digit increase in your existing one whatever your performance because it is "policy."

Exceptions to policy are made all the time, but I'll bet your company is being really tight on policies right now because of the economy. I just had something similar happen to me. I qualified for a certain benefit but was denied it because of "budget constraints." Frankly, I'm OK with that because I know our company is losing money and it was just a part of something that was otherwise positive for me. And I get to keep my job, which is no small feat at the moment.

Point is, you're not going to do better than that right now. Take the raise and the new position. Once you are IN the position you can look for an increase if you are knocking the cover off the ball. Your company probably has a "market adjustment" policy which allows out-of-cycle increases to get you to where you should be. Perform well and push for the adjustment later. You can threaten to leave, but don't do it unless you mean it.