Brett_Murphy wrote: Our leaders (not just the elected ones, the thought leaders as well) should spend their time fixing things instead of acting like middle-schoolers in a huff. Yeah, I know, I'm a hopeless idealist.
So metimes I think we'd be better off run by huffing middle schoolers
poopshovel wrote: Here's my best attempt: My prediction: Trump, Glen Beck, some of my own family members (yikes,) will not have the proverbial or literal testes to come out and say "Oh. Shnaps. My bad." It will never end, and this has just added fuel to the fire, and with all the important, relevant political discussions we could have, who the berkeley cares about this E36 M3?
Will it shut all of them up? Of course not. But this was gaining enough mainstream steam that I think it was a wise move.
NEW CONTROVERSY!!:
Trump unable to produce certificate
This one is going to be MUCH harder to disprove. I hope Glenn Beck can get on this before he goes off the air...
tuna55 wrote: I don't know - I was definitely in the doubter category and this convinced me. I think there was a legit reason to wonder aloud prior to this.
You really think he got this far, to be a Senator and then The Freaking President!!!!!!! Without being a US citizen. When you enter into politics people dig for any kind of dirt they can find on you, it would have been found loooooooooooooooooong ago!
Frack, I just last month had to show about 5 forms of id/proof of residency including my birth certificate just to get my drivers license RENEWED!
Dr. Hess wrote: I always did think he was probably born in Hawaii. I still don't understand why he didn't release the document until today. Just weird. Now, as to why it was finally released after fighting the release for so long, certain states were just about to pass laws requiring presidential candidates to present one. He had no choice if he wants to run in '12.
X2
Took less than a day for a whole new round of conspiracy theories to surface.
I will pay cash money for a shirt with an Adobe logo proclaiming "It has Layers!"
jg
aussiesmg wrote:Dr. Hess wrote: I always did think he was probably born in Hawaii. I still don't understand why he didn't release the document until today. Just weird. Now, as to why it was finally released after fighting the release for so long, certain states were just about to pass laws requiring presidential candidates to present one. He had no choice if he wants to run in '12.X2
X3, these guys are smart.
As to this whole affair, few remember where John McCain was born. Hint: It's not any better than Obama's (allegedly) muddled mess.
I find it amusing that it didn't matter.
2 things happened that caused this situation and the recent release to be insignificant. (we will make the assumption that he was born in Africa)
First
US naturalized citizen law states a child born overseas to ONE American parent, has to reside on US soil before they are 14 years of age, to be considered a naturalized US citizen. He was with his grandmother long before that. So all good there.
(on a side note, McCain was born in Panama and is considered naturalized by the same law different paragraph. I know this because I was born in Germany and am effected by the same law.)
Second
Before a President can be appointed to office the Congress must certify his eligibility. All the Republicans that are bringing this up as a question, especially now, are just politically pandering. Do you know why? When they could have voted "no" and done something about it they all voted for him. Obama was confirmed with 100% of the vote. Not a single Republican or Independent voted against his confirmation.
This is all just political grandstanding by the outed party. Praying on a ignorant and mis-informed populous.
I can't wait to see what the Dem's pull when they are out.
Lies from liars, to beat liars and the liars party.
OOOOOHHH! So this is why nothing has been done in the last few years to help out the lawful immigrant population?
I get it now. This was important stuff.
In reply to corytate:
You are correct sir, we can not help you if you don't fill out the proper forms!
As noted elsewhere, a Certificate of Live Birth is a valid document.
I don't care if he was born on the Moon (a US Territory?) it's what he's done since that upsets me!!
Dan
I may be wrong, but I never heard that Trump or Beck claimed he didn't have a US birth certificate. They were questioning because he wouldn't show it. He's the Pres of the USA, not Sarah Palin or anyone else. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to produce the certificate when asked, especially since he also lived abroad, which served to make people question it all the more.
Usually when someone refuses to produce evidence when asked, they are hiding something, so while I would never have made the conclusion that because he didn't produce it he wasn't American, by not producing it he left it in question. Whether you support him or not, I was surprised at how people were willing to just assume he was US born, when it would be so easy for him to produce the birth certificate. In any case, I'm glad he finally did it so this issues can hopefully go away.
BTW mods, my post you deleted about this was just as benign as this one. Same on you! 
Wally wrote: The thing I don't understand is why his mother ever left Hawaii. If I was there the last thing I would care about is running for office, or pretty much anything else beside my supply of liquor, ice, and pig.
I looked into Moving to Hawaii.. but didn't due to my choice of career. Basically, your average mainlander only survives about 7 years on the islands before moving back. High prices, lots of tourists, and not much to do all add up over time
914Driver wrote: As noted elsewhere, a Certificate of Live Birth is a valid document. I don't care if he was born on the Moon (a US Territory?) it's what he's done since that upsets me!! Dan
As noted elsewhere, a Certificate of Live Birth is different than Certification of Live Birth (the one Mr. Obama produced). I know they sound the same, but only a Certificate of Live Birth is recognized as an original birth certificate. The other is an unofficial copy.
Don't get me wrong- I'm no birther. I am of the opinion there is no issue. But I do understand the difference (unlike some people), and there is a legitimate legal distinction.
However, I agree with you about his antics since returning from the Lunar surface.
Marjorie Suddard wrote: I'm pretty sure he thought he had supplied the proof. Certificate released 6/14/08 by Obama Note the wording at the bottom: This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding. Seriously, it was silly and now it's done and it really doesn't have to get all troll-y again, does it? Margie
My understanding is that the "Certificate of Live Birth" isn't the official document, The "Birth Certificate" is. I may be wrong, but that's what iI've read and heard. What I do know is that nobody has ever asked me for my CoLB, but I've been asked many times for my BC.
Edit - I was wrong about that, or more accurately the people I listened to were wrong. Forget I brought it up. 
I find something far more interesting on the Certification Mr. Obama produced than whether or not it defines his citizenship...
It defines his mother's race as "Caucasion", and his father's race as "African".
Since when is "African" a race?? I thought it was a continent.
^Do you call yourself an American?
A "Certificate" is the official piece of paper.
"Certification" is confirmation that such a piece once existed, or could have.
z31maniac wrote: ^Do you call yourself an American?
It's not my race, it's my nationality.
"African" isn't a country either.
Just FYI - From American Thinker:
"April 12, 2011 Important Difference Between a Certificate - vs. Certification - of Live Birth Yossi Gestetner I am not trying to sort out the broader issue of President Obama being born in the United States or not. However, I do want to point out a small, yet important, point regarding the names of documents flying around this issue; a point that even Donald Trump oversees.
President Obama produced a Certification - not a Certificate - of Live Birth. While both are accepted as "birth certificates" in HI, some interesting information would be learned if one reads the websites of Hawaii's Deportment of Health and of the Department of Hawaiian Homelands:
•Only the Certificate of Live Birth (the one Obama did not produce) is considered an "original birth certificate." (read the Homeland website) •"A person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii," is eligible to apply for an amended birth certificate. (Read the Health website) •"Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth.When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth." (Read the homeland web site) The above information gives us two options as to why President Obama produced a Certification of Live Birth and not an original birth certificate, aka Certificate of Live Birth. A) Obama lost his original kosher document and therefore the state as a replacement gave him only a Certification document, since they don't provide anymore copies of the original. B) Obama was born outside of HI, but after his guardians followed through the requirements (a "certified copy of the adoption decree or the certificate of adoption, and payment of fees"), Obama received an amended birth certificate.
Mr. Trump, who is very strong on this issue, confuses the difference between the both, saying - such as in his NYT response - that the President produced the Certificate of Live Birth, when in fact it is the Certification of Live Birth that was produced.
Regarding the Two Newspapers in Hawaii that placed a Mazel Tove for Obama's parents to the birth of a son on August 1961, it is relevant to have in mind that Obama has eight half-siblings by four other marriages or relationships between his parents. So go figure to which son the ad was referring. In addition, as WND pointed-out back in July 2009, The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, for example, according to its website, reprints birth information it receives from Hawaii's Department of Health, which includes Certifications of Birth that foreigners may obtain.
Again: I am not suggesting that the President was not born in the USA. However, with the above information at hand, the arguments of the Obama defenders that ‘Obama produced a birth certificate,' and that ‘there were two ads in the papers,' become mostly irrelevant."
Yeah - connecting that many dots is akin to the Wookie Defense IMO. At first I thought the birthers were tards and that he should release the long form just to shut them up. Then when he didn't I thought - well that's weird - why won't he? My theory was that it listed muslim and that would freak out a different set of tards. After he did release it, I now wonder again why not sooner. Regardless, I REALLY hope this can go away. He was right - we've got more important E36 M3 to deal with.
In reply to DILYSI Dave:
Here's the thing- why does he have to prove it to the entire country? Why do YOU have to be proven to, specifically? (YOU as in not directed at you, Dave, but all the doubters)
Noting that 435 people in the House and 100 people in the Senate think it's ok should say that it's ok.
Then add in that the SCOTUS says it's ok- it's still probably ok.
And then the Chief Justice of said SCOTUS put everthing he had on the line to pronounce him President. Seems like it's ok.
This ignoring all the work that had to be done previous just to be in the Senate, and even run for President. Ignoring the system that they have in Hawaii- which is just like the one that secures my information in Ohio.
As far as I've read, getting this new information was well outside of the norm, which is why it was never produced before.
What you doubters are saying is that the people who govern our country are SO INCREDIBLY INEPT that they can't do this one simple thing.
And that says a lot about your opinions about the government, at least to me.
Then again, there are a lot of people out there who are conviced that we are in cahoots with the oil industry an the 100mpg carb. I just wish that Exxon would pay up- I can use the money.
^We actually agree for once!
I have no problem pronouncing the whole government inept. 
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