Westboro Baptist Church to visit.

Jensenman wrote:

foxtrapper wrote:

Jensenman wrote: Actually, it's about idiots who use religion to justify their idiocy.

Isn't that the definition of religion?

Not necessarily. There are plenty of religious folk who are intelligent and tolerant of others (SvReX is a good example on this board). Then there's the idiots like this gang of jerks and a couple members of my extended family who justify all of their prejudices with bible verses.

I'm honored. I was trying to not post anything in this thread, but I had to thank you and tip my hat.

Now that I'm here, I guess I'll also have to say that I think more of you guys in general than to keep pursuing this kind of crap. If people put a lot of effort posting offensive and idiotic events of street racing mayhem and death as proof positive that motorsports lovers, car buffs, and racers of all kinds were complete idiots, you'd all be offended.

Yet many of you have no problem lumping morons like this into the standard "religious dummies" stereotype, then suggest that caring and intelligent religious people shouldn't be offended and should just let everyone believe what they want to believe, which apparantly includes the right to spew this garbage.

So the religious are to " Believe what they believe and stop pushing it on others", yet the non religious are allowed to believe what they want to, with the freedom to push it on anyone they choose, no matter how offensive. Hypocritical BS.

Open your minds, and stop acting so foolish. I consider many of you friends and brethren, but really think you should put a little effort into considering the perspectives of others when you lump people together like this.

Thank you JMan for the good word. I maintain a high level of respect for you as well as well.

Yes, the Patriot Guard. However, they only show up for military funerals, IIRC, and not for things like the high school event 914 is talking about.

ArtOfRuin wrote: Yes, the Patriot Guard. However, they only show up for military funerals, IIRC, and not for things like the high school event 914 is talking about.

Not only military. They will show up at veterans funerals also. Been to a couple that the Patriot Guard also attended. They sometimes will attend other events, locally once they attended a funeral procession for some high school kids killed in a bus accident that this church tried to attend (interfere with). I have heard of instances when they will show up to block Phelps followers where ever they threaten to be.

I am a man of strong faith, I attend a Baptist Church, and I also read the Bible. A strong thread in the Bible is "compassion".

These people are wackos and do not show compassion to a family that has lost a loved one.

I run into these extremes sometimes and keep my distance. I do like the bikers that show up. Those guys show compassion!

pete240z wrote: I am a man of strong faith, I attend a Baptist Church, and I also read the Bible. A strong thread in the Bible is "compassion". These people are wackos and do not show compassion to a family that has lost a loved one. I run into these extremes sometimes and keep my distance. I do like the bikers that show up. Those guys show compassion!

+1. Its about the same for me, maybe a little less devout, only with Catholicism.

mtn wrote:

pete240z wrote: I am a man of strong faith, I attend a Baptist Church, and I also read the Bible. A strong thread in the Bible is "compassion". These people are wackos and do not show compassion to a family that has lost a loved one. I run into these extremes sometimes and keep my distance. I do like the bikers that show up. Those guys show compassion!

+1. Its about the same for me, maybe a little less devout, only with Catholicism.

+2. Its what works for me.

I am always surprised when so-called "religious" groups like the Westboro Baptist Church seem to forget the entire love thy brother part of the Bible. I am pretty sure Christianity talks lots and lots about compassion and caring for others but these people seem to gloss over that.

There's very little brotherly love in the Bible, particularly the old testament. There's a lot more hell fire and brimstone over there. Many folk dearly love it, believing it justifies their actions against their enemies.

I do find Christians talk about compassion. And that's about all they ever do, talk about it. They generally don't practice it. In my experiences, Christianity is about behaving very badly all week long, and then washing your hands on Sunday so you can do it all over again.

Personally, I think Jesus would be quite disapointed in what is done in his name.

foxtrapper wrote: In my experiences, Christianity is about behaving very badly all week long, and then washing your hands on Sunday so you can do it all over again.

How do you think the Mafiaso reconcile their lifestyle? Strrong Italian Catholics that confess on Friday night are clean as a whistle in the eyes of God.

Although I have yet to hear of anyone returning to verify this theory.

The Church of the Wacko Tight Ass are scheduled to protest this morning, high school classes are starting two hours late so students aren't confronted. This afternoon I'll let you know how it ends.

Dan

I say someone from the drama club called em. Talk about free publicity for a highschool play.

foxtrapper wrote: There's very little brotherly love in the Bible, particularly the old testament. There's a lot more hell fire and brimstone over there. Many folk dearly love it, believing it justifies their actions against their enemies. I do find Christians talk about compassion. And that's about all they ever do, talk about it. They generally don't practice it. In my experiences, Christianity is about behaving very badly all week long, and then washing your hands on Sunday so you can do it all over again. Personally, I think Jesus would be quite disapointed in what is done in his name.

From a purely statistical perspective when analyzing the charitable giving patterns of Americans, I find your statement to be patently false. The vast majority of giving and outreach to others in non-profits is by Christians and other faith based peoples.

Perhaps the real issue is that you have a particular pet issue which runs contrary to the core beliefs of Christianity. For those type issues, it is unlikely you'll find much support from Christians. Sounds like most organizations.

You brotherly love statement is absurd.

And, though Christians routinely fall short of the standards set by The Lord, I doubt very seriously He will come after us with disappointment. He knew me when I was a whole lot worse than I am right now, and chose to love me then, I see no reason why that should change.

You'll find both good 'uns and bad 'uns in Christianity, just like any group. It's not right to paint an entire group with the same brush.

And, though Christians routinely fall short of the standards set by The Lord, I doubt very seriously He will come after us with disappointment.

Bravo. We all owe a debt we cannot pay.

Rationalization is a strong force. If someone believes something they'll search for a way to make their belief right and good in their own minds. Hitler didn't exterminate Jews because he aspired to be one of the most evil men in history. Same with Bin Laden or the guy running this church. Religion, and it's kissing cousin - politics, tend to be nebulous enough that you can read what you want into it's teachings by ignoring some apsects and focusing narrowly on others.

Not all religious teaching is bad and not all followers of whatever religion are bad. There are some, like anywhere, who work to achieve buttmunch status.

DILYSI Dave wrote: We saw them when we were in Topeka for Nationals. We were on our way to lunch. At lunch we decided we needed a picture of me dry humping my buddy Bill in front of the "God Hates Fags" protesters. Much to our chagrin, they had departed by the time we went back to the site. Opportunity missed.

LOL

You sir have earned my respect

SVreX wrote: ...So the religious are to " Believe what they believe and stop pushing it on others", yet the non religious are allowed to believe what they want to, with the freedom to push it on anyone they choose, no matter how offensive...

Well, I did not state it, but clearly the "push it on others" would apply to the non-religious also.

Do you honestly have people trying to encourage you to be non-religious? Do you honestly have people actively trying to block your religious behaviors? The only example I can think of is intelligent design vs science. I am not sure what to say about that other than intelligent design is pretty new and it didn't seem like there ever used to be an issue between teachings science and religion (I don't really know). And that I don't see teaching intelligent design as a general benefit to society (unlike some other Christian beliefs that have made it into the mainstream).

The person you know as a decent wrench, good parent and asset to the community peels off his/her face and crawls up your shiney happy because you are not of like mind. See above for the reason I shy away from political and religous threads; I don't need another keyboard thrown in my direction.

So, an update.....

It went OK, the bible bangers were beat back by locals, no one was arrested and there was no violence. All good things. The Kansas group was going to the gut of Albany, but with traditionally Democratic neighborhoods now full of black Obama supporters, they wisely chose another venue.

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=777061

Not to speak for SVreX...

..so SVreX jump in and correct me at any time. :)

I think what he's refering to there is the anti-prayer intiatives in some localities. I know some of my religious friends see that as attempts to stifle their form of worship.

Another take on that would be parts of this thread where it would seem as if some posters are lumping all religious folks in with the Westboro Baptist jerks.

I know some religious folks feel that they are often discriminated against for whichever reason. Valid or not those are the feelings I've heard voiced more than once.

Neal Stephenson touched on religion more than once in his books. One book broached the subject that logical people have a hard time accepting religious views because they are based on faith. His argument is that faith, in this context, is the opposite of logic. Faith being the belief in something due to reasons that aren't based on rationality or verifiable facts. You could argue the loaded term of "verifiable facts" all day long so it's a bit of a circular argument.

I'm not sure that I agree with him but it's an interesting concept nonetheless.

Someone said "buttmunch" in this thread. I lawl'd.

It's been YEARS since i've heard that.

SVreX wrote: Perhaps the real issue is that you have a particular pet issue which runs contrary to the core beliefs of Christianity.

You're closer to the mark than you realise, but not for the reasons you believe.

I'm not a dogmaist. I think instead. This offends most members of the organized christian churches, as well those organizations themselves.

Make no mistake, this puts me at odds with other organized religions besides christianity. It means I offend many Muslims, Hasidic jews, all major political groups, and a great many organizations. Failure to swallow dogma without question is reviled by many, especially true believers.

The closest you'd find me to fitting within the conventional christian framework is as a quaker. Mostly for the basic belief that you can find and commune with god all by yourself. You don't need a preacher to tell you what to think or a church to support.

I would be afraid of any of them bible thumpers being molesters it allways is a bullE36 M3 move / motive to get in the pants of young kids . Not that every religion is like that not but I will avoid standard / group religion as long as I live , there are to many bad apples or bananas as it may be . I do find the multiple wife thing appealing though . HMMM abiddadangdadarashabeebee abinddadangdiddarashabeebee ,,abinddadangdiddarashabeebee,,abinddadangdiddarashabeebee

One wife is trouble enough, thankyaverramuch. No way would I want multiples.

^ Reminds me of an old joke. The punishment for polygamy is having more than one spouse.

Like a buddy of mine sez all the time, it's a self correcting problem.

Xceler8x wrote: Not to speak for SVreX... ..so SVreX jump in and correct me at any time. :) ...Another take on that would be parts of this thread where it would seem as if some posters are lumping all religious folks in with the Westboro Baptist jerks.

I would say that is pretty close.

There are 2 active threads on this board right now that go a long way toward bashing Christians. Both have made statements to the effect that people of faith don't think, or faith is the opposite of logic and reason.

If I started a thread called "101 Quotes supporting Christianity", or "101 Reasons why anyone who is not a Christian is an Idiot" most on this board would be quite offended, and rightfully so.

Yet it seems to be acceptable, encouraged, even desirable to do it in reverse.

I have spent a lot of years being part of this community, and making my best effort to be encouraging and respectful of a lot of viewpoints that differ from mine. I've certainly made a few bonehead comments, but have never called anyone dumb, ignorant, or stupid, and I have never treated anyone's opposing viewpoint with disrespect.

There are a lot of individuals who have given me the same in return. But it is still considered OK corporately to bash Christians as a group for their "dumbness",and lump them all together with idiots..