What do you do with a toxic friend?

RevRico said:

I don't know what's so hard about cutting those people out of your life. 

Of course I've been trying to convince a good friend for decades now that just because you share parents doesn't mean you have to like each other or interact with each other at all now that the parents are gone, and that lesson won't sink in no matter how many ways it's taught. 

You have no obligation to anyone you don't want to be obligated to. Friends get weird, get rid of them. Family sucks, cut them out. Life is to short to deal with everybody else's horse E36 M3.

I find it difficult to walk away from people that I actually do care about.  My brother pulled the plug on me a few years ago, and, quite frankly, it sucks.  I'm trying not to be that way.  If this was just some casual acquaintance, then sure, flipping the switch is a no-brainer.

That said, here's a better breakdown of our conversation earlier today for anyone interested.  For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to refer to my friend as "Bob" from here forward.

As I mentioned, Bob didn't answer when I tried to call at lunchtime, so I left a simple text message: "Got a moment?"  Bob immediately replied with an apology for blasting off last night and mentioned putting a breathalyzer on his phone to prevent drunk texting.  Before I could respond, he called me, and we spent about 25 minutes on the phone.

Bob did what he usually does, which is a kind of nervous verbal mag dump of whatever's on his mind, before we settled into actual conversation.  He mentioned being poopfaced when he texted me last night and admitted that he meant what he said at the time.  He probably did, because he doesn't really have the emotional maturity to process the things that really frustrate him.  Instead he lashes out at the people closest to him.  I told him there are consequences to saying hurtful things to people that he cares about, and that the only reason we were even having this conversation today was that we'd known each other so long and I knew he had been struggling; if anyone else spoke to me like that, there wouldn't be a follow-up conversation.  He understood and apologized again.  I believe it was genuine.  It's frustrating that he can be so humble when he gets his junk caught in a mousetrap but so arrogant when he feels threatened or cornered or confused.

We discussed a few things, like his reflexive behavior and the way he has driven people away with harsh words and harsh actions.  No arguments from him.  He  actually agreed with everything I said.  Bob knows he has problems with behavior and judgment.  What he doesn't know is how to change it.  He does admit that he needs to do something about his drinking, but he seems afraid to try and fail.  I mentioned that I've quit a few times for a set period (typically 30 days) to reassure myself that I could, and advised him to give that a try - maybe start with a day, then try for a week, then two weeks, and then a month.  He mentioned that our mutual friend recently quit for medical reasons, and Bob was a little astonished that the friend was able to do it so easily.  Granted, our mutual friend has a stoic determination and strength of character rarely found in mere mortals, but Bob was genuinely surprised that there were no shakes, no DTs, nothing but weight loss and a few extra bucks in the wallet.  So I again encouraged him to give it a try, if only for a day to start out, and see how it feels.

We also touched on work.  His CDL has lapsed, and he's failed the physical twice due to high blood pressure, but doesn't know what to do about it, which probably leads to more depression and despair.  I don't know what to do about it, either, but his bad diet and heavy drinking probably aren't helping.  So he got a little more encouragement to lay off the sauce and see how that felt.

All told, it was a good call at the right time.  He was near tears a few times because he knows that he really has hurt people.  He knows that the bulk of this situation is really the result of his choices.  He knows that digging out of his various ruts is up to him, and that nothing will improve unless he makes some pretty major changes in how he treats not just other people, but himself.

Fortunately, I am in a pretty good position to set boundaries.  Also fortunately, Bob seems to trust me enough to at least hear me out.

We'll see how it goes.

Remind him the high blood pressure, will do MUCH better without the influence of booze, and The meds for it work better without booze as well. 
I've had (and known many wit an hr commute to work, working 12 1/2 to 14 hr days. An hr, to a pro driver is NOT the reason he is not driving. 
As to DT's, I've quit after years of heavy drinking without physical affects, other than improvements, and seen almost everyone do it as well. Unless he starts drinking for breakfast, every day, till he can't CRAWL to the fridge for "just one more" every night, he'll only benefit, physically. And he'd never be sober enough to apologize, if he was! Emotionally, well that's a TON tougher. 
Sometimes habits are far harder than addictions!

I had a friend like this in college.  He was awesome in college but post college went down the whole incel, 4chan, baaaaad part of the internet deal.  Started talking very racist.  Never married lives in his parents basement at the age of 40. 
 

luckily my solution was that my career moved me away and I just let the friendship go.   No one I know still talks to him.  It's sad but I've moved on.   
 

wishing you luck 

In reply to DarkMonohue :

So- it sounds like he's willing to make progress, and just doesn't know how. He definitely does have a berkeleyton on his plate, which can be overwhelming. This puts you in a predicament. 

On ONE HAND- you have a real shot at doing a mitzvah here. Ol boy could use a guide. Someone to break down what needs to happen to unberkeley the berkeleyed, as it were. Stuff like helping him work towards putting down the bottle, controlling the BP, getting his CDL together (or whatever sort of employ he needs) and so on. Having someone sober with their E36 M3 together (relatively speaking, because really...do ANY of us have our E36 M3 together?) makes those tasks a lot less daunting. 

ON THE OTHER HAND- 

This is a big ol can of worms. Like costco sized. Past history has also told me that guys like this have a tendency to also only accept help on their terms, which leads to less help and more "tell me i'm right to be a piece of E36 M3" and you're right back where you started. Unfortunately in cases like these, the probability of you pissing into the wind and getting some on your shoes is pretty high. 

What you choose to do with it is up to you, but i'd proceed with caution. Truth be told if it were ACTUALLY me- I probably wouldn't proceed at all. But i'm kind of all out of nice. I used all that up with my divorce. 

Empathy.  You can agree the town you both knew growing up isn't what it used to be.  Maybe there's a local organization trying to do right by the community.  Try to channel his energy into doing something positive.

The very last thing I'd do is give up on him.

Edit:  Sorry, I read a little more.  The alcohol thing is priority one, and it's a doozy.  Good luck, and I mean that sincerely.

Had a friend that we had to go separate ways with in around 2014. It just wasn't working at the time, our lifestyle choices were incompatible. My mother told me, "sometimes friendship is only meant for a season of life." 
 

For a few years we basically went our separate ways on our own journey. We don't talk frequently now but we try to get together once a year for lunch and to catch up. It's nice to catch up but we will probably never go back to the talking every week. 

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

the whole incel, 4chan, baaaaad part of the internet deal

Is there a short translation for those of us that have not kept up with modern pop phyc lingo?

I know what precisely none of that means. 

I didnt read thru the comments, but I did read your whole post.

I have removed people out of my life for less.  Let him go.  

I had a really close friend that was more or less similar.  Always complaining, nothing was her fault, always the poop-end of the stick, always needed help or bailed out of a situation,etc etc.  Long story short.  I moved on and completely deleted and blocked her and later realized how much worse my life was her in my life.  All the drama and crap.  And to be honest...none of it was really bad...it was just crap.

She had a friend who then I became good friends with and we occasionally reflect about how toxic she was.

In reply to 03Panther :

Incel is "involuntarily celibate" and it's basically the loser adult version of the Little Rascals' He-man Woman Haters Club.  Bunch of awful guys whining that they can't get any and how it's not their fault.

4chan is a completely unregulated, anonymous Internet forum where people will say and do the most awful things because they can get away with it.

In reply to malibuguy :

Thanks for weighing in. I had a couple of follow-up posts that might add some context if you're inclined to go back and revisit them.

Empathy is a really valuable tool, especially with Bob.  Despite his abrasive behavior, he is an intensely sensitive guy, and although it really is mostly his fault, he feels abandoned and let down. Giving him the harsh truth in too harsh a manner is likely to push him further into his funk, and that will make everything worse.

The more I think about things, the more convinced I am that he's more lonely than anything else. Some of that is circumstantial and some of that is a result of his behavior (which is a result of his loneliness and desperation - rinse and repeat). I can't find him a girlfriend, but what I can do is make time for a phone call every so often.  It won't hurt.

Bob's dad has been a big drinker all our lives. It's not a good example, and Bob knows that. Unfortunately, Bob hasn't given himself anything else in life to look forward to. My take is that he drinks excessively and by choice. I believe that he is totally capable of backing off if he finds something else more rewarding to focus on. He has plenty of interests. He just doesn't have the budget to pursue them or anyone to share them with.

I really appreciate all the input here. In my frustration, I painted a pretty one-sided picture of him and his situation. After reading everyone's thoughts here and talking to my friend more, it's obvious that reality is more nuanced than that.

DarkMonohue said:

... reality is more nuanced than that.

Always is.

Please put on your own oxygen mask before helping others with theirs.

Set your boundaries and assert them to keep yourself sane. Fewer/shorter positive interactions will be better for both of you than too much interaction that frustrates you and creates resentment.

In reply to Beer Baron 🍺 :

I really like your wording here. Quite accurate, and definitely the way to do things. 

We don't have a wave goodbye emoji. I might say something a few times, but when advice falls on deaf ears. I'm out. I have enough of my own E36 M3 to deal with to take on dealing with someone elses stuff.