What does it take to go racing?

Friend I’ve worked with called last night with the news.  He might have a couple of years left. He wanted to buy my Black Jack special so he could race Vintage nearly every weekend and go to the big ones like Monterey 

I had to tell him I’d sold it. Then he asked me what I’d do in his shoes.  

I started to answer him  and realized I was answering how I’d do it.   That was wrong,  I needed to give him more choices than just Vintage.  

That’s still on the table but there is more. Chumpcar/LeMons  But I don’t know what a arrive and drive would cost with a good team. (Or even who are the good teams) 

He wants to fill as much of the rest of his life with things he enjoys which includes racing.  He doesn’t have a monster ego to fill so no  pro racing, national championships or anything like that, 

But he wants to meet challenges.  No  dawdling at the back of a pack or breaking down every weekend. He’d really like a win or a few podiums. He’s probably good enough driver.  

What does it cost to buy a good SCCA car for example?  Anything he can just do normal maintenance on and race all year?  Or is a good crew chief and crew needed to be successful?  

Porsche or BMW got events every weekend for the year?  Yeh, Miata  but he’s not much younger than I am and isn’t going to be happy coming in mid pack at best   

If he wants to own something, this is my story:

A group of us have two 98 Integras set up for Chump.  We spent money in places that would count, and we buy good tires, because we want to be at the pointy end of the grid.  The cars, with a good Kirkey seat, my cages, koni orange shocks, ebay Chinese coil over kits and a fire system cost about $6k cdn each, with my labour being at zero cost.  With entry fees,travel, tires, gas, hotels, food, etc, it is approaching $2k each per 24 hours for a 3 driver team, so 4 drivers would be in the $1500 range.  So far, the only issue we have had is synchros in the transmissions, but both of them had 200,000 km on them when we started out.

I presume our cars would also be legal for Lemons, and there is an IT-J class up here as well.

ChampCar, LeMons, World Racing League, LuckyDog, SCCA, NASA, BMWCCA, PCA all have road races and often there are cars available to rent a seat in.

The Cheap Endurance racing typically costs between $500-1000/weekend and you can connect with teams looking for butts on their respective website forums or by contacting the series and asking if they know of anyone with an open seat that needs a driver.  The amount of seat time is hard to beat for a given weekend and the variety of cars and race venues available is pretty impressive.

BMWCCA, PCA, SCCA and NASA can be a little harder to find seats for rent, but again talking with the local club officials can get you some directions to go in for open seats.  Local race shops and race schools can also be a good source for finding seats.  The cost will likely be higher, but the competition may be a bit more stout due to the shorter events requiring a bit more assertiveness.

Vintage racing tends to be a bit more picky about their drivers, so either they are the owners themselves or they are known, hired guns that have shown they can race cleanly and not abuse the cars.  Still, if you have any friends or contacts in this world, its worth shaking the bushes a bit to see if anyone would be willing to give them a try.

Either way, plan on having your own safety equipment.  You can rent HANS and other safety equipment, but if they are planning on running as much as possible, then it may make sense to buy new equipment so that there's no waiting for it to arrive if an opportunity pops up.

How bout endurance karting?

Really low entry cost, plenty of seat time, lots of comradarie and real competition. 

Easiest and probably cheapest is crappy car racing.

Chumpcar teams at the pointy end usually charge about 1k for 2, 2 hour stints.

This does not include race gear or food or lodging, usually...

SCCA Regionals

What is his preference for cars and class?

IT class well under $10K easily including spares. Production classes come to mind first because he mentioned Vintage. FF or FB if open wheel. Spec Racer, tho an old D or C Sports racer would be a blast. AS if he likes American iron. Former National car w/ history is a plus, they trickle down to regional cars not necessarily because obsolete but because money required to maintain the National level.

Find a class that gets a good turnout at his region so he doesn't race class against himself, there's always the group win tho. He could compete for regional championships too.

Depending on his location he could race regionals a couple times a month w/ in a 4-6 hour tow, that's here anyhow.

In reply to SVreX :

He’s my age and my build,  in great shape, (round is a shape isn’t it? )   So he’s not over weight he’s just under tall.   So I doubt carting is an answer 

sorry

Streetwiseguy said:

If he wants to own something, this is my story:

A group of us have two 98 Integras set up for Chump.  We spent money in places that would count, and we buy good tires, because we want to be at the pointy end of the grid.  The cars, with a good Kirkey seat, my cages, koni orange shocks, ebay Chinese coil over kits and a fire system cost about $6k cdn each, with my labour being at zero cost.  With entry fees,travel, tires, gas, hotels, food, etc, it is approaching $2k each per 24 hours for a 3 driver team, so 4 drivers would be in the $1500 range.  So far, the only issue we have had is synchros in the transmissions, but both of them had 200,000 km on them when we started out.

I presume our cars would also be legal for Lemons, and there is an IT-J class up here as well.

 

So you think there is a good chance you’ll run every race?  

Since it is the beginning of the season start out with ice racing then go fom there.    With AMEC you can start with your street driven car.  Four winter tires and a helmet are all that is needed.

Of course warm clothes are nice.

Buy whatever built race car he can find and go AER or WRL racing.  I'm pretty sure you have to have some sort of license or experience to enter, but to my understanding a few crapcan races will count.  So do a few arrive and drives before moving up.

fasted58 said:

SCCA Regionals

What is his preference for cars and class?

IT class well under $10K easily including spares. Production classes come to mind first because he mentioned Vintage. FF or FB if open wheel. Spec Racer, tho an old D or C Sports racer would be a blast. AS if he likes American iron. Former National car w/ history is a plus, they trickle down to regional cars not necessarily because obsolete but because money required to maintain the National level.

Find a class that gets a good turnout at his region so he doesn't race class against himself, there's always the group win tho. 

Depending on his location he could race regionals a couple times a month w/ in a 4-6 hour tow, that's here anyhow.

Wouldn’t a Trans-Am car capable of getting an invite to Monterey cost like $500,000? Let’s see, tires spare engine trans and a couple of different rear ends   Something to haul it all. I suspect that’s more than he’s capable of spending, I’m just guessing   

He has a  MGTC special  that could probably get an invite but he needs a new engine. I have a spare that I could build for him  Plus the whole car needs to be freshened. .........

However there are only a few events a year for MGT series since the top speed of one is maybe 75 mph  plus 0-60 in 20+ seconds   

I’m reasonably sure travel is part of the appeal This week New England next week Texas followed by Monterey  but he’ll need someone to do a lot of the things he never could. Maybe 2 someone’s ? 

minivan_racer said:

Buy whatever built race car he can find and go AER or WRL racing.  I'm pretty sure you have to have some sort of license or experience to enter, but to my understanding a few crapcan races will count.  So do a few arrive and drives before moving up.

Aer and wrl are not moving up in my opinion from chumpcar.

There is an arms race going on in aer and wrl is chump with smaller fields and multi classes.  

minivan_racer said:

Buy whatever built race car he can find and go AER or WRL racing.  I'm pretty sure you have to have some sort of license or experience to enter, but to my understanding a few crapcan races will count.  So do a few arrive and drives before moving up.

I’m sorry what is AER or WRL? 

In reply to frenchyd :

WRL = World Racing League.  I mentioned them above.

In reply to iceracer : I never thought about Ice Racing!!!! I’m glad you did.  Where is AMEC ?

Is there such a thing is arrive and drive Ice Racing? 

Last few years it wasn’t cold enough  to race, had to go to Canada 

He wants to go wheel to wheel? (Not autox or Hill climb or time trial?)

What about dirt/circle track?

Stefan said:

ChampCar, LeMons, World Racing League, LuckyDog, SCCA, NASA, BMWCCA, PCA all have road races and often there are cars available to rent a seat in.

The Cheap Endurance racing typically costs between $500-1000/weekend and you can connect with teams looking for butts on their respective website forums or by contacting the series and asking if they know of anyone with an open seat that needs a driver.  The amount of seat time is hard to beat for a given weekend and the variety of cars and race venues available is pretty impressive.

BMWCCA, PCA, SCCA and NASA can be a little harder to find seats for rent, but again talking with the local club officials can get you some directions to go in for open seats.  Local race shops and race schools can also be a good source for finding seats.  The cost will likely be higher, but the competition may be a bit more stout due to the shorter events requiring a bit more assertiveness.

Vintage racing tends to be a bit more picky about their drivers, so either they are the owners themselves or they are known, hired guns that have shown they can race cleanly and not abuse the cars.  Still, if you have any friends or contacts in this world, its worth shaking the bushes a bit to see if anyone would be willing to give them a try.

Either way, plan on having your own safety equipment.  You can rent HANS and other safety equipment, but if they are planning on running as much as possible, then it may make sense to buy new equipment so that there's no waiting for it to arrive if an opportunity pops up.

Pretty complete, a lot of information there, I’ll share it with him tomorrow.  

He had talked about buying my car so I know he has a pretty decent budget in mind. How decent I’m not sure.  What does a good race mechanic cost for a year? Much of the rest we should be able to figure out 

I doubt he’d be all that excited about driving a whole bunch of different cars with complete strangers.  That’s something more for the very young.  

A friend of mine in NJ is part of a Chump car team. They run a fairly well prepped E36 BMW. It's an ex-LeMons car, so it doesn't look that great, but it races well. They are usually looking for a driver to help offset funding costs.  I'm sure that applies to a lot of Chump car teams.

However, in your friend's case, I'd be more inclined to do one of the arrive-and-drive Spec Miata programs like Planet-Miata does.  If I have limited time, I'd rather spend it racing than wrenching - or more accurately - checking off bucket-list sites instead of being stuck inside my garage swearing at some bolt.  Plus, an outfit like this should be able to offer a competitive car and have the process in place to allow a driver to get some HPDE/track time in the car before actually having to race it.  Of course, you can probably get (pay) a Chump team to do some track testing, but when dealing with guys doing this for weekend fun, their non-racing weekends are often spoken for.

In reply to Robbie :

he’s not interested in circle track . I did it in my youth and the only part I liked were the people who helped me.  Racers were the enemy someone to beat.  

Road racing is different. I can like and admire those I compete  with and think of them as friends because we are. 

In reply to Ian F :that’s a good point.  I keep thinking what I do and I have to try to think of different ways 

Don't you need a physical to get a racing license? Can he get that? You don't mention why he " might have a couple of years left ". Do I want to be on a track with him? Sure as E36 M3 don't want him as my plane pilot!

For maximum fun in minimum time I would look at drifting and road-trip-like events such as BABE rally. Maybe buy a cheap belly tank racer and go to Bonneville.

NOHOME said:

Don't you need a physical to get a racing license? Can he get that? You don't mention why he " might have a couple of years left ". Do I want to be on a track with him? Sure as E36 M3 don't want him as my plane pilot!

His license is current but even a medical won’t show what he’s got. The pain isn’t bad yet and won’t be for a while so no forbidden drugs in his system. ( he’s not a commercial pilot so don’t worry) 

In reply to Ian F :

Have you seen a price for the arrive and drive service?  Can't imagine it's cheap, but I do see the appeal.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to Ian F :

Have you seen a price for the arrive and drive service?  Can't imagine it's cheap, but I do see the appeal.

I vaguely remember reading something like $2000/race plus damage and probably some consumables.  Sounds like a lot, but if you figure out the price of building a competitive car and the costs to transport it and maintain it, it's not as bad.  Even less if you factor in the personal time you aren't spending on the car.