What is it with plumbers?

The water heater at my house went out a few months ago.  Ok, it's 13 years old, time to get a replacement.  Plumber comes out and gives me a $5000 quote for a 75 gallon water heater.  Wanted $3600 for the water heater alone.  Same one from Home Depot was under $1200.  I ordered it from Home Depot and had them install it for less than half of what the plumber wanted.

A few days ago the garbage disposal in the break room of my office went out.  Called the plumber (a different one) and they quoted me $700 for it.  I declined and he dropped the price to $550.  I declined again.  The same garbage disposal from Home Depot is $90.  I bought it from them and they installed it for $149.  So almost 1/3 less than the initial quote from the Plumber.

So what's the deal with this?  In my eyes this is price gouging at its finest.  It's not like I charge my patients a 300% price premium because I see them pull up in a Mercedes...

Many people don't understand plumbing or are scared by it and will pay any sort of money not to have to deal with it.

Those prices are stupid. The 75g heater is cheaper bought at HD than at your typical plumbing supply store, and he may have not wanted to deal with it, but that is high either way. We typically do 40 or 50 for the same price because 50 is more common and we can buy in bulk and get them cheaper than 40, but the jump to 75 triples my price (more than the $1200 you paid) from the supplier and they are bigger and heavier and harder to deal with. I have nothing to say other than that, and no experience outside of the area I work in. And I think you overpaid on the disposal, unless it's 1hp or bigger. 1/2 or 1/3hp units should be well under $100. 

Your plumber sounds like he’s hitting the “flat rate” book crack pipe with those prices.   Many of these guys get sucked into buying management programs that advocate insane markups on materials and labor.   I’m all for a guy getting a fair price for a good job but $3,600 for a 4 hour job is absurd.  

I’ve worked for 3 different commercial HVAC contractors over the years all 30-40 truck shops.   Operating overhead has always been between 13-15%    In a competitive market we’re seeing 20- 25% margins at sell so 5-10% true profit if all goes well on a given job.   Your plumber is hoping for 30% after all costs are paid, I wish him luck. 

I've had similar experience out here, potentially made worse by the fact that we have a house that's a bit larger (and maybe a tad nicer, although it was the same builder) than the neighbours.

$700 to supply and install a replacement toilet that I can buy from HD for $250 if I get a nice one, and they didn't even say if they were going to supply a nice one or the cheapest they can get away with.

In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :

One of the reasons I did all my own plumbing.  Installing a water heater is at tops a 20 minute job.  That's assuming I have to cut the old one out and plumb a new one back in. 
OK my utility room is in the tuck under garage and it's a 2 wheeler in and out. No stairs. 
 

Add  stairs and you've added at least 10 minutes in and out. But still.  

In reply to barefootskater :

The garbage disposal was $90, so in line with what you said.  If the parts from a wholesale plumbing supply company cost more than what a retail person can pay at a big box store, why would you buy from the wholesaler?

11GTCS, the quote for the water heater was over $5000 installed.  They wanted $3600 for the water heater alone.

I guess people with skills are trying to make as good a living as they can. Does your lawyer, dentist or stockbroker need to rationalize their invoices?

Kudos for being a savvy consumer or DIY.

Every time I think of calling a plumber I think of this scene from Moonstruck. Then I go grab the acetylene torch and do it myself.

Pete

In reply to docwyte :

Buy from a wholesaler because:

For the normal stuff, I get a much better deal than a retail customer

im there every day anyway

charge account means I don't have to run a debit/credit and file that transaction separately

generally a better product. Most manufacturers will have a pretty big difference between their jobber parts and their retail parts, and the consumer has no idea because they are not the ones installing anything and have no point of reference even if they are. 
 

For water heaters, space allowing, it is cheaper for me to install two 50s in series anyway. Generally more efficient, and more capacity. And I still don't have to deal with one of those 75g monsters.  

In reply to barefootskater :

I understand the quality difference but from my standpoint I can buy for 3 75 gallon water heaters for the same price as I got quoted for one from the plumber.  At that point it doesn't make sense, even with the higher quality.

They didn't offer me a 2 50 gallon option, I do have space for it.  Not sure why, maybe it was even more than a single 75.

NOHOME, I get it, I understand capitalism.  However even in that there's an acceptable amount of money to charge and then there's price gouging.  My rates are set by insurance companies for my in network pricing but my out of network pricing isn't 500% of what in network is...

docwyte said:

In reply to barefootskater :

However even in that there's an acceptable amount of money to charge and then there's price gouging.  

Yeah and some guys don't get that. Admittedly when I clicked the thread I was hoping for general bitching about plumbers so I could join in but it's homeowner stuff.

GODDAMN PLUMBERS ALWAYS IN MY WAY AND TRYING TO RUN STUFF IN MY BAYS, GET YOUR OWN

Sounds to me like they're too busy to want to deal with such small jobs, so they threw out a berkeley off price. Had you actually bit, that would make their week in half a day, but it's not worth pulling a crew off a bigger job for half a day. 

Are you sure you didn't call commercial or new construction only plumbers? I for one despise old plumbing and you couldn't pay me enough to touch it, and turns out there are a ton of plumbers that feel the same way and charge accordingly.

Other possibility is he heard a male voice on the line and hasn't learned this lesson.

A single senior lady (66 YO) at work believes she has a leaking toilet flapper so she asked me to walk her through it.  
 

Then she asks me if she should call a plumber - no, you got this.   Wonder what that would cost her to call it in?

Water heaters last quite a while.  Most people are not able to change one themselves, and since its been at least a decade since they last bought one, they have no idea what a fair price is.  Some people nod politely and say, "Ok."  Less work, more money.  We all know a guy, or buy Chinese parts from Rock Auto, so we are not the target market.  

I'm an electrician and when I was working for myself, I frequently gave insane prices for jobs I didn't want. Typically a small nasty/extra difficult project or I  short project t that had a conflict with scheduling and would have to get extra help. Or they could DBs that charge too much and give everyone a bad name.

I'm seeing that happen more and more lately from all businesses.

When I need something/something done I get quotes and it's not out of the ordinary for the highest one to be 10 times the lowest. It never used to be like that.

In reply to RevRico :

I suppose but both times they were already at my house and office, so their time was already allocated so to speak.  Both were residential companies...

imgon said:

I'm an electrician and when I was working for myself, I frequently gave insane prices for jobs I didn't want. Typically a small nasty/extra difficult project or I  short project t that had a conflict with scheduling and would have to get extra help. Or they could DBs that charge too much and give everyone a bad name.

We quit doing that because they kept saying yes when can you start?  Now we just decline to give an estimate.

I blame health insurance costs #1, followed by other overheads that people didn't care about 30 years ago. 

The small guy has to charge what a big guy does because his health insurance costs as much, if not more, but he can't hire help. All his overheads are enormous, spread out maybe between him and his few helpers.

Big guys have lots of help so they only do big jobs that can employ everyone. Those big jobs pull the hourly rate up for the small jobs to near ridiculous. Overheads are spread out across and entire company. 

NOHOME said:

I guess people with skills are trying to make as good a living as they can. Does your lawyer, dentist or stockbroker need to rationalize their invoices?

Kudos for being a savvy consumer or DIY.

 

Every time I think of calling a plumber I think of this scene from Moonstruck. Then I go grab the acetylene torch and do it myself.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/rlDeSSAxMvs?rel=0

 

Pete

I was sure you were going to say this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZcXtwNqvEg&t=0m30s

Similar to HVAC guys.  A/C went out last summer, quick look finds voltage at the outdoor unti.  No idea what to do, so call for help was put in.  Guy cones out, says “ easy fix ... need a new capacitor”. Ok, how much?  Part right here (pointing to it) is $400.  Yea, on tbe ipad it is $40 at Lowes Depot.  Long story short, paid $100 for the 20 minute diagnostic, and $40 for the part elsewhere vs. $500 plus from HVAC guy.  Yes, this is the anomaly, but still ... 

Yea I ended up paying $420 for a $50 part. Why? 

$100/hr flat rate. 

Guy comes, diagnoses, $100. 

Drives to Parts Store, charges me $70 for his driving time, $50 for the part.

Comes back, installs - $100. 

Checks system $100. 

Highway. effin. robbery. 

I argued with him that I shouldn't have to pay for his skilled labor rate to drive across town and wait at a parts store, nor did I buy that he needed another hour to check the system if he had correctly diagnosed the problem and fixed the problem part.  Beyond that, I can find mechanics in town who will work on my $20k vehicle for $50/hr and they don't charge me while they are waiting around for parts. 

Needless to say, I'll fix/install everything else from here on out. 

pheller said:

Yea I ended up paying $420 for a $50 part. Why? 

$100/hr flat rate. 

Guy comes, diagnoses, $100. 

Drives to Parts Store, charges me $70 for his driving time, $50 for the part.

Comes back, installs - $100. 

Checks system $100. 

Highway. effin. robbery. 

I argued with him that I shouldn't have to pay for his skilled labor rate to drive across town and wait at a parts store, nor did I buy that he needed another hour to check the system if he had correctly diagnosed the problem and fixed the problem part.  Beyond that, I can find mechanics in town who will work on my $20k vehicle for $50/hr and they don't charge me while they are waiting around for parts. 

Needless to say, I'll fix/install everything else from here on out. 

You paid him for his skill, you paid him for the time he could have been charging out to a grateful customer, you paid him for the convenience of not towing your junk to his shop.  Next time you should buy all the parts that the internet says it is, and install them yourself.

I could say so much here as this is the same scenario in the auto parts/service business that everyone has a "buddy that can do it cheaper".