What is up with this fog light epidemic?

In the case of my Saturn's headlights, they don't really throw much light to the side until you're about 50 feet out. The cutoff is pretty low with only the high beams, which also does limit the side spill quite a bit. If I'm driving on a road with a lot of furry woodland creatures, I do wish I could get more meaningful light to scatter instead of blinding oncoming traffic that I'd do with brighter bulbs.

My fogs are no more than about a foot off the ground, and I'd be surprised if they directly caused much of an issue. I do see them as bright enough to reflect, like I said in my previous post. Does anyone else seem to see the glare from the road, especially in the rain, as more of an issue than the lights themselves? Perhaps it's aim?

I drive with them on on my Wifes Durango. They sit low enough that they don't shine in on people coming or going. The headlights suck on that thing anyway. The brights even sucks (but fogs aren't on when they brights are on anyways)

It used to annoy me many years ago, but not anymore. Living out in the middle of bufu nowhere, a little extra light helps. Especially in bad weather.

Also, +1 on 4cylndrfury's comment.

Duke wrote:

DrBoost wrote: Yeah, it irritates me. What's worse? People driving around with their REAR fog lights on!!! That gets me every time.

Well, most of the rear fogs ( on European cars anyway) come on when you turn the fogs on. Audis are the worst for this. The rears actually are way more annoying.

Are you sure about this (genuinly asking here)? My Benz, it's older, has a SECOND detend to turn the rears on and I understand the rears have to have a separate indicator and initiator as the front, but I'm not 100% on that.

Derick Freese wrote: The gauges in my Saturn aren't the easiest to read, but turning on the fog lights turns the gauge lights on.

That explains it! I've wondered why almost every Saturn I see has the fogs on! Stupid GM!! They can't engineer their way out of a brown paper bag!! Why would you do that? I bet the owners manual states something about the fogs being not intended for driving all by themselves. My mom's craptastic Chevy Venture of a few years ago would turn on the IP lights with the DRL's.

Keith wrote: We didn't test drive ours at night - who tests cars at night?

I do.

That's when I fell in love with the instrument panel...

Around here in upstate NY, driving with the fogs on is SOP. Even when the sun is shining brightly.

Noticed that a lot of the newer cars don't have fogs.

My car has been lowered and I don't know if it's that or age that makes bright lights in the mirror less tolerable.

Dan

Grizz wrote: I was actually astonished a few weeks ago. Pulled up to a light, guy behind me was in a lifted pickup, and he actually tuned his lights off because they were shining into my moms van.

When I used to drive commercial.. I would turn off my headlights when at a light. My headlights were at headhight for most people and would shine directly into the rear window of anything smaller than a full sized SUV. I hope somebody appreciated it somewhere

As for fogs.. the only time I have ever driven with just the fogs on was during a snow storm. The HIDs in the BMW didn't put out enough heat to keep the headlights clear of snow and I was blind.. so off they went and on went the fogs.

What I do find funny about the ones on the Ti. I have never blinded cars with them (that I know of) but SUVs use to flash their lights at me whenever they were on..

most of the modern cars that I've seen that came with fog/auxiliary lights come on when the driver is using low beams and turn off when switched to high beams ... sometimes they're mis-adjusted and really cause a problem in my rear view mirror ( lowered CRX... so most headlights low or high or fog are a problem ) very few on-coming fog lights seem to be a problem

edit: even my buddies CSP Miata's low beams kill me when he's behind me going to an event in the early morning

My car is an Astra, so the daytime running lights are simply the low beams. They're ALWAYS on.

On:

Off:

Wow, you really can't tell a difference on your screen. The sun was to my back, so the gauges were lit up well with the light itself. Come late evening when the sun is setting but it's not quite time to turn the lights on, those gauges get hard to read. I'm another 20/15 vision guy, so it's not my eyes.

I do think a better solution would be for me to find out a way to have the IP lights on all the time. I'd almost never turn the fogs on then.

Forget just fog lights, ANY forward facing light on during normal daylight hours that doesn't warrant being on is asinine. Automatic lights are even worse. Just when you DO need them on, they NEVER come on, but when you really don't need them, they are on.

In reply to Ranger50:

I fully agree with this for most vehicles. My lights come on late and stay on too long.

Ranger50 wrote: Forget just fog lights, ANY forward facing light on during normal daylight hours that doesn't warrant being on is asinine.

I am honestly really confused right now. Bewildered to the point where I would not be surprised if someone posted "KIDDING!" tomorrow morning.

I cannot in any way imagine how having lights on during the day would be harmful to other drivers, or be unsafe.

Most of the time you can't even tell when someones lights are on during the day.

IN comparison to natural light, the amount of light headlights project is absolutely trivial.

In reply to Taiden:

That statement is related to the berkeleytards that drive their DRL-equipped POS around in a berkeleying rainstorm, foggy morning, etc and NEVER turn their damn headlights on, so I can see their vehicle before I plow into it at any speed. Having them on all the time lulls them into a coma. So when the time comes to use their headlights properly, they don't use them properly.

Oh and I have been blinded by many vehicles with headlights on during a nice bright day.

2011 Ram 1500 owner here... Yes, the headlights suck. It doesn't matter if you have the dual (like me) or the quads (for you white-collar SLT and Laramie guys ). It is well known in the 4th gen Ram community that these are terrible lights. Common practice is to adjust the aim up a bit. Most people use common sense but a few of the xtreme yo boiz ruin it for everybody (like putting HIDs in stock housings grrrr)

I admit, I used to fall under the "foglights on all the time" crew. Only on my old Cobra though, never on any of my trucks. I hated it when trucks used to do it to me in my Cobra so I'd try not to do it to other people.

Well, with my 20/150 vision....

The Pontiac had some good fog lights: low powered and aimed at the ground. The 92 Nissan has no such luxuries. Then again, my Dad had a low opinion of them in the first place, saying that you honestly didn't need them most of the time, and if you did you'd be better off not driving.

I will agree with Ranger50 on people relying on their DRLs. People think that they are acceptable in inclement weather. They are not.

When your DRLs are on, your taillights are not. In the E36 M3ty weather we had here the other day, I could see people that had their lights off until they were probably 100 yards from me. I kept flashing my lights off and on to people who didn't have their lights on (oncoming traffic). About half of them got the clue and turned them on.

Also, automatic headlights don't always turn on when the sky is gray.

People don't realize either when its blasting down show and your car is getting plastered with sticky snow, your lights stay warm enough to melt whats on them off.

It's just good practice to turn your lights on every time the weather is crap or the sky is gloomy.

Ill echo the sentiment from a poster above. Saturn has bad-ish headlights. I put extra lights on my so it would be as bright as normal cars regular lights. My extra lights light up sides and closer up front of the car much better then anything and cause no harm to others. (i had someone drive me car behind me a few times)

If it helps you see better then great but be mindful to others and all is well.

This is a good explanation of what fogs are for and what they don't do well.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/fog_lamps/fog_lamps.html

This part is the most important

Daniel Stern said: In clear conditions, more foreground light is not a good thing, it's a bad thing. Some foreground light is necessary so you can use your peripheral vision to see where you are relative to the road edges, the lane markings and that pothole 10 feet in front of your left wheels. But foreground light is far less safety-critical than light cast well down the road into the distance, because at any significant speed (much above 30 mph), what's in the foreground is too close for you to do much about. If you increase the foreground light, your pupils react to the bright, wide pool of light by constricting, which in turn substantially reduces your distance vision—especially since there's no increase in down-the-road distance light to go along with the increased foreground light. It's insidious, because high levels of foreground light give the illusion, the subjective impression, of comfort and security and "good lighting".

So it gives the person using their fogs a nice warm fuzzy feeling but actually reduces their vision and possibly endangers other drivers on the road with glare.

Excessive lighting isn't just annoying to other drivers, it is blinding to them. When a person flashes his brights at you he isn't saying "My good sir, I have noticed that you seem to have forgotten to dim your headlamps. Perhaps this quick visual reminder will make you take notice of the bright blue indicator lamp on your dashboard" What they are saying is "Holy crapsauce dude! I can't see anything except the UFO landing level of photons being emitted from the front of your car! I might have just ran over a cat or a hobo but I am not sure because everything in my field of vision has been replaced by a giant red blurry spot"

Again. Perhaps it has something to do with my eyes. 3D movies don't work for me and foglights make me recoil as if a cop just shoved his maglight into my face. But it isn't any safer for the person driving and it isn't safer for anyone else on the road. It is a lose lose scenario.

I had a '92 Integra with factory fog lights...I used them maybe twice. With the low beams AND the fog lights on in foggy driving, they don't help/there was no "extra" light from the fogs so I never used them with the low beams. When you switched the high beams on, the fogs shut off (I would guess to avoid too large a draw on the battery/electrical system but also because the manufacturer correctly figured you don't need fogs with high beams). When it was REALLY foggy, I tried the fogs alone...they worked decently.

And I agree with the remarks about DRLs being NO substitute for headlights (and especially taillights) in bad weather.

Ranger50 wrote: In reply to Taiden: That statement is related to the berkeleytards that drive their DRL-equipped POS around in a berkeleying rainstorm, foggy morning, etc and NEVER turn their damn headlights on, so I can see their vehicle before I plow into it at any speed. Having them on all the time lulls them into a coma. So when the time comes to use their headlights properly, they don't use them properly. Oh and I have been blinded by many vehicles with headlights on during a nice bright day.

I can agree with this 100%

I have to admit that my fog lights remain on with my low beams because my switch is stuck. I am inspired to get this fixed now though.

4cylndrfury wrote: I have them on almost every time I drive after dusk. If having them on means that I annoy you, but it also makes me more visible to Suzy McTeentexter, 17 year old suburban snowflake teen girl driver, and therefore, I stay alive when her maniacal ass is out and habitually not paying attention, then, i guess, you need to deal with it?!? Factory fogs dont do much, and mine are quite low to the ground ('10 GMC Terrain). Im fairly confident theyre not blinding anyone. So, whats the problem again? You dont have a ruler in my yard after dark, making sure Im in compliance with the local HOA, do ya?...

I will ignore all the comments meant to inflame the topic at hand and just say, when the snow is on the ground and the sun is low in the sky, your oncoming extra fog lights are bouncing off all that white and glaring into the eyes of the older driver coming towards you to such a point where they can't see the road and swerve into your path.

Do not come in here complaining that the older person shouldn't be able to drive because they ran into your car head on. You are a major contributing factor with your unnecessary lights operating.

Beside do you really think that this young, inexperienced and distracted driver will suddenly "see the light" and become a better driver due to your fog lights operating.

In NY you can actually be cited for having fog lights on unnecessarily. nI m sure it rarely happens however.

It is amusing that folks think turning off high-beams due to oncoming cars is a great gesture when their lows and fogs are putting out as much or more light.

When I was a tech at VW/AUDI two of the first things I did upon bringing a car in the shop was change the stereo to always come on at the lowest setting when starting the car and turning off the fog light switch so they would have to turn them on next time.

Fog lights are for enhancing low or poor visibility in front and to the sides in bad weather. Accessory or driving lights are for enhancing high beams at night in the absence of other vehicular traffic for seeing as far down the road as possible.

If you are putting your fogs on at night. Stop it. Switch to high beams. I'm sorry if that takes a little more effort. Driving is not "set it and forget it."

And as was stated by the post above regarding the light in front of the vehicle you won't be able to react to anything that close to the car unless you are going quite slow. There's a reason we teach kids in DE to look AS FAR down the road as possible. To get as much information as possible for better decision making.

When I had my Impreza, I left them on all the time. When they burnt out, I replaced the bulbs with yellow bulbs. They were pretty worthless from a driver visibility standpoint, but they stand out more than headlights alone and let other people see you.

If you were ever blinded by them, you need to get your head off the pavement - they are aimed super low. Its pretty obvious Subaru put them on the car to make it look cool and not for any real function (no different than "city lights" or the Audi glowing things). I have never ever been blinded by factory fog lights. Every vehicle I have ever seem them on they are low to begin with and aimed even lower.

None of my cars now have factory fogs. If they did, I'd leave them on with the low beams just like before.