What is up with this fog light epidemic?

In reply to ProDarwin:

Did you not read ditchdigger's post?

Keith wrote: I can tell you that the stock headlights on an unmodified 2010 Dodge 2500 diesel are terrible. In order to avoid blinding car drivers, they have to be aimed down at a fairly sharp angle. This means that, even though they do throw decent light, they don't throw it very far. You outdrive them at about 30 mph. The "fog lights" on those trucks, on the other hand, put out much better light than the headlights do. Not just to the sides, but down the road. I suspect they're not affected by pesky DOT rules. So if you've got one of those trucks and you need your lights to see, you turn on the fogs. That's no excuse for running them in the city, but I use them on my drive home from work where there's little ambient light and lots of deer.

The 2004 Ram's headlights are just as bad as the later ones. The factory Hella fogs are more effective as headlights than the headlights themselves.

Keith wrote: I don't have that much of a problem with the Dodge high beams - although when you supplement them with a pair of 100W Hella 4000 driving lights, that makes a big difference I think the problem with the low beams is simply how they have to be aimed because they're so far up in the air. We didn't test drive ours at night - who tests cars at night? Besides, it's the carrying case for a Cummins. End of story.

I'm running the same Hella 4000's.

In reply to ditchdigger:

There's been people doing that in Atlanta since I moved here 25yrs ago. I once saw someone come down the hill with the fogs on, and actually cut them off when they hit the fogbank at the bottom of the hill.

I have to admit, I've been using the ones on the Corrado at night a lot more than I used to. The US market headlights stink on those things. I try to leave the fogs off when I can, but since we moved out of the streetlight zone, I just can't see the damn road anymore.

vwcorvette wrote: In reply to ProDarwin: Did you not read ditchdigger's post?

Yes, I read both of them. What is your point?

Never could quite understand why its illegal to drive with foglights on in some states. I have mine on 100% of the time on my commuter, but they are inches from the ground and only 27w so its not like they do much of anything. they have a very good cutoff.

The other thing I dont get, is why its mandatory that the foglights need to go off when the high beams come on. Even when I have my brights on, a little bit of short range light is still welcome, quite frankly I want all the light I can get to help see deer on the dark windy 2 lane roads I drive on every morning/evening.

As usual, it sounds like there are people being responsible about whatever light their emitting, fogs or not, and of course many aren't. Welcome to America.

Personally, I've never been bothered by fogs on any car, even once, while daily driving a lowered mk1 mr2 with no tint. That said, I can certainly understand some of the concerns here (i.e. snow reflection, raised vehicles, improperly aimed, etc.) I'm fairly young still (30's count?) and I live in the south, so maybe that has something to do with it.

For me, a much larger problem is people driving with the brights on, all the time, no matter what. It even sucks in the daytime. I'd like to think I'm pretty calm about such annoyances, but after 30 mins of this Taurus following me home I wanted to get out of the car and start smashing their headlights with a tire iron Walter Sobchak-stye.

aussiesmg wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: I have them on almost every time I drive after dusk. If having them on means that I annoy you, but it also makes me more visible to Suzy McTeentexter, 17 year old suburban snowflake teen girl driver, and therefore, I stay alive when her maniacal ass is out and habitually not paying attention, then, i guess, you need to deal with it?!? Factory fogs dont do much, and mine are quite low to the ground ('10 GMC Terrain). Im fairly confident theyre not blinding anyone. So, whats the problem again? You dont have a ruler in my yard after dark, making sure Im in compliance with the local HOA, do ya?...

I will ignore all the comments meant to inflame the topic at hand and just say, when the snow is on the ground and the sun is low in the sky, your oncoming extra fog lights are bouncing off all that white and glaring into the eyes of the older driver coming towards you to such a point where they can't see the road and swerve into your path. Do not come in here complaining that the older person shouldn't be able to drive because they ran into your car head on. You are a major contributing factor with your unnecessary lights operating. Beside do you really think that this young, inexperienced and distracted driver will suddenly "see the light" and become a better driver due to your fog lights operating.

I think youre wrong...on this topic...in general. My fogs are not bright. They barely put out much light straight ahead, but they do a really great job of lighting my periphery. I have pretty sensitive eyes, and I really dont see anything wrong with other cars,stock, or even aftermarket foglights ...ever. And yes, I do think that an extra set of lights will alert the half retarded teenage girls out there that the cabin of a car is not the ideal place to ask their friend Frangina about the dress shes going to wear to the mid-winter bake sale /semi formal sophmore mixer.

My lights are illuminating my path, so Im not sure why youre calling them un-neccessary. Theyre doing the job they were installed to do. I will though, asert my opinion that at a certain age, if youre reaction time, view over the steering wheel, or visual acuity drop below a line (that needs to be drawn) in the sand, that you should be handed a bus pass or the business card of a driving service. 31 in a 45 is NEVER acceptable...justifying it by blaming my foglights is a crap rationalization.

Perhaps we need to make the auto industry begin installing visual zone auto dimming windshields to make sure you never once have to deal with the harsh reality of life shining in your eyes?!?

If you cant see, you shouldnt drive...that also translates into if you lack the ability to deal with the amount of light that comes out of my DoT approved, OEM factory lighting system, then perhaps you need to chose Nikes over Dodges to get around...Im just sayin...

A suggestion I heard years ago was to polarize windshields and headlights at a 45 degree angle. You'd see your own just fine, but the ones coming at you would be out of phase and dimmed heavily by the polarization.

Weird, I just assumed all car guys were annoyed by people who drive around with their fog lights on...unless they are driving in fog.

ya know what they say about ASSumptions...

Brights bother me much more than fogs. My fogs aren't street legal, so guess what. I don't use them on the street. When I install them, I usually point them down if I plan on using them on the street.

Matt B wrote: For me, a much larger problem is people driving with the brights on, all the time, no matter what. It even sucks in the daytime.

I had that happen to me the other day.. even flashed my highs at them for a bit.. they flashed theirs back and went on driving with them on

mad_machine wrote:

Matt B wrote: For me, a much larger problem is people driving with the brights on, all the time, no matter what. It even sucks in the daytime.

I had that happen to me the other day.. even flashed my highs at them for a bit.. they flashed theirs back and went on driving with them on

When that happens to me I just leave my high beams on and most of the time the other person will turn their hight beams off and we can both go on our way.

I really don't mind the fog lights but the high beams really get on my nerves.

I drive with my headlights and fogs on all the time, guess that makes me shine happy, but drivers around here just don't see my blue car for some reason when my lights are off. I've had people try to change lanes into me or turn in front of me when they shouldn't more times than I care to count, number of incidents has dropped very dramatically with lights on. I've driven in front of my own car with another car and I've driven on the opposite side of the road with another car and my lights are aimed properly. Plus living close to the ocean on flat plains we get lots of heavy fog fairly regularly.

8000k+ blue/purple HIDs and HID kits in halogen housings and high beams on bother/distract/blind me more than any normal headlight/foglight.

I always wonder about motorcycles that leave the highbeams on. This would scare my if I were a rider, as now, the 3000 pound missile that is traveling towards me is now being driven by a blinded driver. Not ideal I wouldn't think.

Joey

joey48442 wrote: I always wonder about motorcycles that leave the highbeams on. This would scare my if I were a rider, as now, the 3000 pound missile that is traveling towards me is now being driven by a blinded driver. Not ideal I wouldn't think. Joey

Its common for them around here to have a flasher on then to "make then more noticeable." hopefully BondoandDuctape doesn't get a hold of one of those.

I drive with my hazard lights on at all times. Just to make my car more visible.

Inflammatory statement removed

Otto Maddox wrote: I drive with my hazard lights on at all times. Just to make my car more visible.

Heh. My friend suggested this, along with the use of a "Daytime Running Horn"

N Sperlo wrote:

joey48442 wrote: I always wonder about motorcycles that leave the highbeams on. This would scare my if I were a rider, as now, the 3000 pound missile that is traveling towards me is now being driven by a blinded driver. Not ideal I wouldn't think. Joey

Its common for them around here to have a flasher on then to "make then more noticeable." hopefully BondoandDuctape doesn't get a hold of one of those.

Oh man, those are almost hypnotic. I feel myself being pulled toward the light. I think they are dangerous.

Joey

Alright lets cool this thread down.

Here are the pros and cons of using fog lights when visibility isn't reduced.

Cons

1. Reduced distance vision of the driver due to excessive foreground illumination causing pupil constriction.

2. Increased glare for other drivers, made worse in rainy conditions

3. Useless above speeds of 30mph or so.

4. False sense of security caused by excessive light where the driver doesn't actually need it.

5. It is against the law. At least in Oregon, Washington and California. I didn't bother to look at any other states. Not that it applies to this thread but it is forbidden in Great Britain, Germany and most of Europe, Australia and New Zealand as well.

Pros

1. Increased visibility to other drivers (see also the increased glare up above)

2. To quote my co-worker "That E36 M3 looks baller!"

3. enables the dash lights to function in a Saturn

4. Provides a degree of foreground lighting in full size Dodge trucks. Probably because their headlights are so damn high off the ground.

Anything else I am missing?

The unwarranted use of lights can be annoying. It was very foggy until 2:00 or so here today. At least a third of the people on the road had no lights on. Visibility was poor at 100ft. People have no sense.

Hmm

ditchdigger wrote: Alright lets cool this thread down. Here are the pros and cons of using fog lights when visibility isn't reduced. Cons 1. Reduced distance vision of the driver due to excessive foreground illumination causing pupil constriction. Yeah, technically, this makes sense....but I would argue having your dashboard dimmer switch turned up too bright (in some vehicles anyways) is actually worse than having "excessive" lighting outside your vehicle. Or distractingly bright radios/LCD screens, etc.... 2. Increased glare for other drivers, made worse in rainy conditions Only if the lights are poorly aimed and have poor/no cutoff 3. Useless above speeds of 30mph or so. I disagree. 4. False sense of security caused by excessive light where the driver doesn't actually need it. Again, disagree. 5. It is against the law. At least in Oregon, Washington and California. I didn't bother to look at any other states. Not that it applies to this thread but it is forbidden in Great Britain, Germany and most of Europe, Australia and New Zealand as well. Illegal in some places, I think PA as well. Not illegal here in VA. Pros 1. Increased visibility to other drivers (see also the increased glare up above) If your lights are properly aimed/cutoff, it should hardly affect other drivers in a negative way. 2. To quote my co-worker "That E36 M3 looks baller!" berkeley yeah it does! 3. enables the dash lights to function in a Saturn 4. Provides a degree of foreground lighting in full size Dodge trucks. Probably because their headlights are so damn high off the ground. I'll be the first to agree the foglights on many fullsize trucks are overwhelmingly bright. They are probably the worst offenders as far as being a hazard to other drivers. Anything else I am missing?

MG Bryan wrote: The unwarranted use of lights can be annoying. It was very foggy until 2:00 or so here today. At least a third of the people on the road had no lights on. Visibility was poor at 100ft. People have no sense.

Here here.

Studies have shown that in North America more people inappropriately use their fog lamps in dry weather than use them properly in poor weather.