What the Confederate flag means to me

rebelgtp wrote: Alright so for all of those that are all cheering about these companies saying they won't carry anything with the confederate flag so they don't "offend" anyone, how do you feel about the fact these same companies selling items with swastikas and the soviet hammer and sickle on them? Where is the outrage about those items?

Is anyone here cheering about that?

They are private companies, they can do what they want. I am sure if there were some skinhead Nazi atrocities in Des Moines or a Bolshevik revolution in Florida(?!) that got a lot of attention, I suspect they would have the same reaction, but that is their call.

rebelgtp wrote: Alright so for all of those that are all cheering about these companies saying they won't carry anything with the confederate flag so they don't "offend" anyone, how do you feel about the fact these same companies selling items with swastikas and the soviet hammer and sickle on them? Where is the outrage about those items?

I think they are overcautiously but probably wisely removing an item that is likely to generate controversy and cost them sales at the moment. I think they will probably also quietly go back to selling the items later after the controversy has died down.

If some German nutcase walked into Temple Shalom and shot up somebody's bar mitsvah, I would expect them to do exactly the same thing with swastikas during the inevitable media aftermath. It's ultimately silly, but a prudent business decision.

The thing about that is almost no one openly flys the Swastika, nor do shops sell things with it on them. I do understand the analogy, though.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Cone_Junkie: No, its not a tipping point, people have national attention, so they're going to use it. This seems to happen following every tragedy lately. Its unethical at best, and plain heinous at worst.

So what tragedy did NASCAR capitalize on when they dropped the flag 20 years ago? What tragedy spurred the recent SCOTUS ruling on Texas removing it from license plates?

It now has the majority attention, a moment of critical mass. AKA- the tipping point.

Someone fixed it:

In reply to Ian F:

I have a problem with that photo. It isn't right. I demand you take down that trash.

The Generals doors were welded.

Very well written by the OP and proof that there are forces at work that want to remove this sentiment of freedom while at face value claiming to be saving it.

There is no stronger or more evil adversary than that which claims to be good while leading the cause of evil.

Datsun1500 wrote: Assume the confederate flag does represent "white pride". So? The rainbow flag represents "gay pride" and that's allowed on license plates. I can get an NAACP plate too. If you want freedom for some, there needs to be freedom for all. Picking who is allowed to be vocal about things is a very slippery slope.

Gay Pride does not imply hatred of non-gays, white pride very much implies hatred on non-whites (not by the words, but by the actions / statements of those who claim it).

If you can force a bakery to make a cake for a gay wedding, I should be able to force a Muslim shop to sell me pork. One can't be covered by freedom of religion, and the other one not.

I agree, it absurd to force a bakery to do that. What's about as absurd though is SAYING you are not, or will not do it for that reason. Just don't do it, you don't have to say why. It's also pretty silly going to a bakery that you know not want to serve you (not sure if that is what happened though). If they did, do you really want to eat that cake?!

Forcing someone to sell something they don't offer is a pretty silly example. E.g. Can I force a body shop to sell me roast beef?

OK, much better. What if someone wants a cake that says "F America". Do they have to make that? This almost seems like a "right to be offended" issue. (very strange, complicated issue)

Someone noted in the other thread about the Hobby Lobby decision, strange how they are different. I think this one may be a state law issue (which must be attacked first) vs a company rights issue (no law involved). I am afraid I a not fully conversational on either case.

The "glad to be white" thing is not about the words (as I noted) it's about the actions of the vast majority of people (from what I have seen) who say that. I can say I am a Nazi (sorry to use that example) and it does not mean I am a bad person, but historically, it's pretty damn likely.

In reply to Cone_Junkie:

Its like talking to a brick wall......9 people were murdered, and the day after became "THIS IS ALL DUE TO THAT WASIS FLAG" Instead of actually showing respect to those people. You have a far colder heart than mine if you condone that behavior.

We're used to seeing it every time the whole anti-2a crowd come wheezing around to take advantage.

In reply to Datsun1500:

To the OPs point the flag could be used as a discussion of freedom, however I disagree. It has been used for many decades to threaten, embrace, and support violence. While I am sure there are those that want to look at the positive side and magnify that. The current public feeling is that the flag is now more like yelling FIRE in a crowded theater; so yes it should be removed to history books and never forgotten but no longer embraced as just heritage. It doesn't take a lot of people to cause havoc with yelling FIRE in crowded places to make that illegal.

(I really never understood how that heritage was separate from slavery and fighting a war trying to separate from the Union to maintain the economic benefits of slavery for European Americans. What is this positive southern heritage for non whites?)

A few minutes ago, CNN reported that an activist had removed the Confederate flag from the SC Statehouse grounds. As of 7AM she was still being processed by the PD. It'll be interesting to see the Legislature's response to this. EDIT: CNN is showing cell video of her climbing down.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Stupid people are stupid.

In reply to Datsun1500:

'zackly!

Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to RealMiniDriver: If a bakery can be forced to make a wedding cake for 2 men, then a black bakery should be required to make that cake under the same theory

Sorry being redneck is not a protected class

RealMiniDriver wrote: In reply to Datsun1500:

LOL that is funny!!!!!! I have seen Black people do a lot of things on T.V. That is not on the list. I have never seen a Black Baker. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need help!

Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: So I can refuse to make a rainbow flag cake because I don't believe in what it stands for too then, right? Not believing in the symbol of gay pride, is not the same as discriminating against gays, I just don't believe in what the flag stands for.

Are you discriminating against that person because of a protected class type reason if so. It is illegal for you to do so.

Ahh hahahahahahahahahahahahahah...

Datsun1500 wrote: You tell me. Am I discriminating against that person if I refuse to make a rainbow cake for anyone? As in, I choose not to sell them at all?

Just you and your wallet.

Curmudgeon wrote: A few minutes ago, CNN reported that an activist had removed the Confederate flag from the SC Statehouse grounds. As of 7AM she was still being processed by the PD. It'll be interesting to see the Legislature's response to this. EDIT: CNN is showing cell video of her climbing down.

If they had fallen off of there, what are the odds they'd have sued the state?

I just have to say that it is berkeleying ridiculous that I can no longer buy a General Lee or Rebel L88 Corvette Racecar model from the same company that makes Confederate soldier models, Nazi SS troops, and Kamikaze aircraft...

In reply to Javelin:

I'm glad I picked up a case of Rebel Corvette kits when I did. When I helped restore that car I got a small flag decal for my tool box. Am I supposed to take that off now?

In reply to Wally:

Can I buy one off of you?