What the Confederate flag means to me

The only times that the American flag has not been able to to be flown is in HOAs that don't allow ANY flag to be flown. There is always a simple solution to that problem, BEFORE you purchase a house in an HOA read the CCRs.

But I'm sure it's a simple flag that causes it all.

It doesn't matter if it is or isn't. To everyone but white southern CSA fans it's a traitor's flag and a flag used as a symbol of oppressing people. I know for a fact that the majority of people who claim it's for southern pride and "history" are lying. I grew up around these people and ALL of them were racists. Often they were people who would say "i'm not racist" and then say or do racist E36 M3 on the regular and not know that it was racist behavior simply because they were ignorant or naive of what racism was.

Regardless it has no business on public land. If you want to fly it in front of your house, fine I don't care, on your car, fine I don't care, but the government better not be having this on their land and property which includes things like license plates.

I think it comes down to honoring family that died in a war

This is another ridiculous claim people make. Nobody is flying this flag to honor people who died 150 years ago. And if they are why is it then offensive if my dad's friend whose mother was a Nazi ambulance driver to fly the swastika? Her brothers died in that war. Because that is how minorities and most of the non-deep south white people view the Confederate battle flag, a swastika equivalent.

If you want to fly a flag that honors veterans there are PLENTY of flags out there. And this is irrelevant because this is the GOVERNMENT flying it on PUBLIC land. Not you at your house.

Our constitution is something I support whole heartedly. Never in my time have I seen our constitutional rights attacked like they have been in recent years.

People who use this defense against this flag are hilariously hypocritical. If the constitution is anything it's trying to defend basic human rights. Of which the southern states had not respected for decades even after they lose their war.

That "nation" was also a dictatorship oligarchy aside from it's other human rights violations. Sure the north was no worse in some instances but the Constitution represents FREEDOM more than anything else and it evolved into being that more with each new amendment. The supporters of that flag were the obstacles of that. As a supporter of the Constitution and a libertarian it flying on public ground is an insult to the constitution and everything the United States stands for and was founded on. If it wasn't for slave holding human rights abusers the nation would have been (relatively) flawless and free from day one. It was the same southern aristocrats people are defending here that lead to "rich land owners only" voting and slavery being american institutions at the founding which tarnish our history. They were the group that was EVERY obstacle to freedom in the US.

Like I said, however, if you want to fly that in front of your house, fine. I don't have a problem with that. On public land ti does not belong and is Walmart wants to remove it OF THEIR OWN WILL they shouldn't be made to have it.

Constitutional rights are not being attacked or violated here. I have a feeling that anyone making that claim are the "I want small government, except when it comes to patriot act, nsa spying, the government drug testing citizens, declaring wars, treaties by decree of president, etc" hypocrite types.

T.J. wrote: I wonder how things would've ended up if Lincoln would've stayed within the law and just let the southern states secede from the union. Certainly, if we were still two separate countries today, there would not still be slavery in the south. Quick, someone point me to some sort of alternative history type novel so I can see how it could've worked out.

Why do you assume there still wouldn't be slavery? Some countries still get away with it today, although they're small and obscure ones.

A divided US might've led to Axis victory in WW2.

I am noticing a few people getting defensive on here with there points they are trying to hold...

EDIT: Dang it Cone Junkie, stop beating me to this!!! I have heard of certain areas passing zoning laws that prohibit flag displays of any kind. Not just Old Glory. I don't remember what the outcome was but I remember the lady that was doing it refused to take it down.

The ordinance was ANY flag. It wasn't picking on one particular flag. But then again there is also a suburb community which didn't allow pick ups of any kind to be parked on the street in plain sight, so weird ordinances are another discussion all together.

So based on the responses to my question I am gonna put this in the thread drift category.

(sigh)

My family has been in the south longer than the United States has been a country (1746 to be exact). I am as southern as you can possibly get. My blood type is grits. I consider gravy a condiment, a main course, and a beverage.

And yet I do not stake my pride in being a southerner on that flag. I take far more pride in the land and my family heritage. My family logged the hills, farmed the land, and built the towns. That is what I'm proud of.

I think this whole thing is silly.

GameboyRMH wrote:

T.J. wrote: I wonder how things would've ended up if Lincoln would've stayed within the law and just let the southern states secede from the union. Certainly, if we were still two separate countries today, there would not still be slavery in the south. Quick, someone point me to some sort of alternative history type novel so I can see how it could've worked out.

Why do you assume there still wouldn't be slavery? Some countries still get away with it today, although they're small and obscure ones. A divided US might've led to Axis victory in WW2.

Warning!!! Flounder, inciting riot comment to follow. This is intended as humor and nothing more. This is not serious.

Well, we wouldn't have to worry about illegal immigrants from Mexico!!!!

Proceed with your civil discussion.

The biggest one I have an issue with is the constant attack on the Second Amendment. You don't like guns? Great, don't buy any. Your feelings do not trump the constitution.

We need term limits through out our government, no more Harry Reid's, Dianne Feinstein's. Eliminate lobbyist and special interest groups, the have become too powerful. I agree with some such as the NRA, but too many have too much control.

Our administration's latest policy on negotiating for hostages just increased the risk for anyone that travels abroad.

unk577 wrote: We need term limits through out our government, no more Harry Reid's, Dianne Feinstein's.

What about Strom Thurmonds?

Ms. Service says this:

"I am as southern as sweet tea, boiled peanuts and year-round flip flops. However, I don't support the hanging of a flag that was (1) the battle flag of a army that damn well lost a war, and (2) hanging of any flag other than Old Glory or a state flag at a capitol or state building. At the very base of this all, it's about being patriotic. And, as a southerner that ranks with me."

I married into her family. She is a direct decedent of the Harrison Presidents. Her and her family have been in Northwest Florida (FLA-F&*%ing Lower Alabama)/Alabama since 1830 and South Carolina before that.

Just for her reference.

Not wanting to flounder, but I have a serious question. Would the Confederate flag be more closely related to the Democrats or Republicans(conservatives)?

In reply to Fletch1:

Today, the GOP. As the parties have flipped demographics in the late 60's.

Republicans were strong federalists during the civil war, but are now states rights. Democrats have done the same switch.

Republicans were anti-war and Democrats were pro-war, switched in the 60's as well.

What ever party you were with in the 1950's by the 1970's go to the other side of the aisle. It has been a really interesting study of how the two sides flopped. It is almost unbelievable.

This thread has caused me to research more about the civil war, slavery, civil rights, etc. Some things I already knew, other things I've learned. I'm sometimes in disbelief on how things work in a society.

Having lived both North and South, I see way more confederate flags up North.

Fletch1 wrote: Not wanting to flounder, but I have a serious question. Would the Confederate flag be more closely related to the Democrats or Republicans(conservatives)?

Depends on when you are talking about. You know Lincoln was a Republican.

Fletch1 wrote: Not wanting to flounder, but I have a serious question. Would the Confederate flag be more closely related to the Democrats or Republicans(conservatives)?

I'll take your flounder bait.

It's most closely related to who flies it now- White Southern Republicans.

Woody wrote: What about the atrocities represented by this flag? In fact, there is nothing on this one that *doesn't* imply death. If we're going to start banning the sale of flags, we need to start here.

More like these flags:

If you don't get the difference between some generic pirate flag and those flags right there something is wrong with you not I or anyone else who gets the difference.

It is funny enough that the racist shooter wore those flags patches and honored those flags as well as the CSA battle flag and holds all in equal esteem. I wonder why he didn't fly the jolly roger? Oh right... he wasn't wearing a Halloween costume.

If you don't understand the difference you are either INCREDIBLY naive or DO know the difference and have an agenda.

Also nobody is banning flags, lmao. Just because Walmart took them off the shelves and that flag wont be flown on state property that is not what's called a ban. More "I have an agenda" logic.

You know what my agenda is? Taking flags that represent no nation in existence and unconstitutional values off of public lands and allowing you, as a citizen, to fly it if you like on your private lands. Also educating people on the reality that the apartheid South Africa flag and the CSA battle flag has the same meaning REGARDLESS of whatever fabricated meaning you want to force upon it. That CSA flag has about equal as right to stand next to the flag of the United States, a symbol of freedom, as the flag of Rhodesia or the Confederate flag, symbols of racism, oppression, and oligarchical dictatorship.

The flag was flown as a big fat middle finger after the civil war to integration and equal rights. As soon as that flag was erected once again on state grounds is the day that blacks were banned from office and FORCED out of office, guns were taken out of their hands, and groups like the KKK started rampaging through the country side.

In reply to Flight Service:

Not a flounder, I lol'd.

One very neat tidbit of history is that most of the generals on both sides knew each other well, hell, several of them even fought along side each other when they turned Mexico into a whippin' boy.

In reply to Cone_Junkie:

I'd say your right. Who use to fly it? I'm being serious here.

Here's what it means to me. It looks rad on the general Lee. It represented one thing a long time ago. I highly doubt it represents that now.... Most of those jokers are using iron crosses and the like. If Hitler can make the swastika bad, maybe the Confederate flag can represent good. America was founded on the idea that we didn't like E36 M3, so we change it. Not let's piss in everyone's lunch sack because we don't like what something used to mean. Really, if we're going that route, I want to ban black people from saying the n word as a sign of friendship (ie mah n****) because it used to be a derogatory term. Can't have things both ways.

In reply to yamaha:

I had heard that many a civil war battle actually started with the Generals meeting and having a drink. I always thought that very humorous. Lee and Grant were very civil toward each other as I understood it.

Honestly I don't think if it had been any other two Generals, they would have ever stopped fighting.

Well Robert Byrd, the longest serving Democratic Senator, probably flew it when was in the KKK. He even filibustered against the Civil Rights Act.

In reply to Fletch1:

The south was predominately under the Democrats during the civil war, up to and through reconstruction. In the 1960's both parties switched sides. Now it would be Republicans. This is applying the 80/20 rule of course you always have your out-liars.

In reply to spitfirebill:

Yes he did filibuster the Civic Rights Act. I learned that earlier today.

mndsm wrote: Here's what it means to me. It looks rad on the general Lee. It represented one thing a long time ago. I highly doubt it represents that now.... Most of those jokers are using iron crosses and the like. If Hitler can make the swastika bad, maybe the Confederate flag can represent good. America was founded on the idea that we didn't like E36 M3, so we change it. Not let's piss in everyone's lunch sack because we don't like what something used to mean. Really, if we're going that route, I want to ban black people from saying the n word as a sign of friendship (ie mah n****) because it used to be a derogatory term. Can't have things both ways.

Guess what? We don't like this E36 M3 (confederate flag on gov't property/flags) , so we want it changed.

Fly any flag you want as long as it's not flown above a The American Flag, I agree. Also no organization, association, religious group, company, school, your mom's uncle's cousin should be able to prevent you from flying our nation's flag.

To those who walk on, burn, whatever our flag..... If is done in protest to our government then I have no opinion, it is your right. If it is done in protest to our country, it's still your right, but get the F!€# out! we don't want or need you here spreading hate. There are millions that would love to take your place and be appreciative in the process.