What to do about an erraneous bill?

In April(ish) 2013 I bought a Ford Escort from a buy here, pay here lot. I paid in full, with cash. They never sent the title but did transfer it as I was able to get a duplicate that was in my name at the BMV. I did this on my dime as the lot owner proved impossible to get a hold of. Six months later the car suffered from a rust related suspension failure and was sold for scrap.

Fast forward to yesterday: I get a past due bill in the mail for $12 more than the amount I paid for the car. The accompanying letter threatens legal action and blah, blah, blah if I don't take care of this in a week.

Understandably miffed, I went down to the car lot. Gone. I then went and checked out the address the letter was sent from. It was a garage/shop with no one there. A couple of guys that run the business next door mentioned that he's virtually never there. They acted like the guy was kind of a sleazebag but were able to give me his personal cellphone number.

Working my way down the letter the guy now runs a realty office in a nearby town. I've attempted calling twice now with no answer. I've left two voicemails with no return call.

So do I keep trying to iron this out with the guy or wait for this supposed legal action and laugh in their faces when they ask for money? I no longer have any real proof of purchase but could probably go to the BMV to get records that I owned the car. It just seems like a big waste of my time to prove that this guy's an idiot.

Any advice?

Id go get those BMV Records...an ounce of prevention and so on...

I am not sure you will be laughing in anyone's face.

Sounds like you can prove possession and ownership, but not payment.

They can too.

They also have your signature on the purchase agreement.

Did you give them cash with no receipt??

You'd better get proactive and gather up all the info you can. This could get rough, and you may need a lawyer.

I'm not a lawyer. We have lawyers here.

I would send him a registered or certified mail letter stating the facts: You bought the vehicle from him for cash and do not owe him anything.

It sounds like sleazy car dealer #1 went out of business, and sleazy car dealer #2 bought him out, but now makes his living in a Realty office.

I would interpret this to mean that #1 sold #2 the business, with your sale showing as a receivable ( increasing his sale price).

Sleazy dealer #2 is now trying to collect the assets he has in receivables.

Sleazy dealer #2 may also be sleazy enough and connected enough with lawyers to put a lot of pressure on you (and perhaps win, if you can't prove him wrong).

Don't tell him much. Anything you say can and will be used against you...

You might try pressuring back a little- tell him it was paid for in cash, and you have all receipts and documentation to prove it (whether or not you do). Make it look like #1 is the sleaze, and lied to him (very plausible).

If he asks for the documentation, tell him you will leave it with your lawyer (because you are concerned about the threats he has already issued, and need to protect yourself).

Then lawyer up.

Remember, it's HIS job to prove you wrong. Don't make it easy on him (like telling him you have no receipt)

Your one POSSIBLE ace in the hole, is that #1 did not file a lien, and you have a clear title (leaving #2 SOL).

Title without a lien on it would go along way towards showing you didn't owe anything on the car when you titled it. I'd be looking through bank records pronto.

SVreX wrote: It sounds like sleazy car dealer #1 went out of business, and sleazy car dealer #2 bought him out, but now makes his living in a Realty office. I would interpret this to mean that #1 sold #2 the business, with your sale showing as a receivable ( increasing his sale price). Sleazy dealer #2 is now trying to collect the assets he has in receivables. Sleazy dealer #2 may also be sleazy enough and connected enough with lawyers to put a lot of pressure on you (and perhaps win, if you can't prove him wrong). Don't tell him much. Anything you say can and will be used against you... You might try pressuring back a little- tell him it was paid for in cash, and you have all receipts and documentation to prove it (whether or not you do). Make it look like #1 is the sleaze, and lied to him (very plausible). If he asks for the documentation, tell him you will leave it with your lawyer (because you are concerned about the threats he has already issued, and need to protect yourself). Then lawyer up. Remember, it's HIS job to prove you wrong. Don't make it easy on him (like telling him you have no receipt) Your one POSSIBLE ace in the hole, is that #1 did not file a lien, and you have a clear title (leaving #2 SOL).

Some quick googling last night shows it's the same guy. Looks like I'll be heading down to the bmv for a start. I've been combing the house trying to find the reciept but can only assume I threw it out once the car was out of my hands.

I appreciate the info, I've definitely never found myself in a situation like this before.

Did you mean erroneous or extraneous?

Don't get too worked up too quickly.

He might have caught himself in his deceptive bookkeeping.

It may just take you reminding him you paid cash (and he gave you a receipt).

I think he forgot about his double set of books. He was trying to avoid paying taxes on the sale, but forgot to make a note about the cash.

It's tax evasion. It's illegal.

If he also claims the car has left his inventory without receiving payment, it is also fraud.

Don't threaten him or corner him (yet). Just remind him that you paid.

I'll bet he quickly apologizes for the bookkeeping error.

In reply to SVreX:

I'm thinking you might be right about the tax evasion. After spending the day blowing up every phone/email I could find he finally called back. He claims his paperwork shows I put $1500 down. He says he'll look into it and get back to me within a week.

I managed to find an old insurance card with the VIN and looked it up on the BMV's website. Unfortunately it doesn't show much:

I purchased it from Blue Ball Auto Sales (I know, right?). The history shows where he transferred the title on 5/4/13. It didn't get to me so I got a duplicate on 5/7/13. The guy I sold it to registered it on 12/30/13. It appears he sold it on 4/5/14.

So plenty of title history after me. I don't know title laws (I'll be visiting the BMV Friday) and the only lien I've ever had was on my Ruckus but I don't think you can transfer titles with liens on them.

So I e-mailed him the screen cap I posted above, here was his response (for the record, the car was $2500):

"After the account is reviewed considering your information, we will follow-up with you. We do not have record of a filed lien and we only have record of receiving $1500.00 on April 3, 2013.

We will followup with you next week and thank you for speaking with me today."

So he's saying they released the title without full payment. What car lot does that?

If his records show $1500 in payment (leaving a $1000 balance), why was he billing you $2512?

Pretty sure it will just go away next week. "We have reviewed your account, and have found a clerical error. Please pardon our error".

And this is why you keep receipts, especially ones with more than 2 zeros. In the future, like... starting right now, come up with some type of filing system. Even a shoe box to keep things like this. Forever.

In reply to Dr. Hess:

I take pictures of receipts and the cash used to buy. Then store them on multiple back up drives.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: In reply to Dr. Hess: I take pictures of receipts and the cash used to buy. Then store them on multiple back up drives.

This is what I do with all vehicle and firearms related purchases, licensing, and permitting.

I was going to suggest storing them electronically, but if the OP can't manage to keep a receipt for a vehicle purchase from a buy-here-pay-here lot, scanning a document to a file, storing the file in more than one place (CD/DVD, book drive, thumb drive, etc.) and managing that storage is also probably going to be a stretch. A shoe box or a zipper pouch for critical documents like car purchases, house purchases, rental agreements, etc. is better than nothing.

He can't go back in time and start saving stuff, but he can start saving stuff today. I bought a 2000 RAV4 last weekend. I put all the paperwork in a file and the file goes in my file cabinet with the files for my other vehicles. I also put the receipts for lifetime warranty parts in those files. I needed a new clutch cylinder a few months ago. Just dug out the receipt (FROM 20 YEARS AGO) and brought it down to Autozone for my warranty replacement.

In reply to Dr. Hess:

Normally I keep reciepts, I go for the shoebox approach but can usually find what im looking for. I'm sure the reciept for this transaction was pitched during a spring cleaning binge because the car was long gone and (I thought) there was absolutely no reason to keep it. Lesson learned, I'll be keeping paperwork around a lot longer from here on out.

Honestly, I'm going to start paying for everything possible via credit and then paying the card off right away. At least then I'll have the CC record online and in paper form as well as the ability to dispute any potential bs charges.

I think the real lesson to be learned here is to never ever buy a Ford

Dr. Hess wrote: I needed a new clutch cylinder a few months ago. Just dug out the receipt (FROM 20 YEARS AGO) and brought it down to Autozone for my warranty replacement.

They just love mofos like you. I did the same thing a few months ago on a 14 YO radiator. I had the receipt because you know no way in hell its in their computer. They balked at first because the old part number was invalid. No E36 M3! The manager finally ran it through, but snidley commented he should have sent me to the store that sold it. This is why I use Autozone less and less.

Dr. Hess wrote: I was going to suggest storing them electronically, but if the OP can't manage to keep a receipt for a vehicle purchase from a buy-here-pay-here lot, scanning a document to a file, storing the file in more than one place (CD/DVD, book drive, thumb drive, etc.) and managing that storage is also probably going to be a stretch. A shoe box or a zipper pouch for critical documents like car purchases, house purchases, rental agreements, etc. is better than nothing. He can't go back in time and start saving stuff, but he can start saving stuff today. I bought a 2000 RAV4 last weekend. I put all the paperwork in a file and the file goes in my file cabinet with the files for my other vehicles. I also put the receipts for lifetime warranty parts in those files. I needed a new clutch cylinder a few months ago. Just dug out the receipt (FROM 20 YEARS AGO) and brought it down to Autozone for my warranty replacement.

How? The ink on the parts store receipts fades to nothing within about 4 hours.

Dr. Hess wrote: I needed a new clutch cylinder a few months ago. Just dug out the receipt (FROM 20 YEARS AGO) and brought it down to Autozone for my warranty replacement.

You sound like my dad. He's got Filing cabinets and bankers boxes in the garage. Need to find the "lifetime warranty" on a 20 year old Pep Boys brake spoon.. He's got it.

I've determined it's not worth my time for items under a certain amount of money. My time is worth $X an hour. Digging out receipts for anything under X is not worth it. A company should keep my records on file and issue we warranties based upon their records. If they can't, I don't do business with them anymore.

But it is amazing when someone can pull out a receipt and make this happen.

PubBurgers wrote: In reply to Dr. Hess: Normally I keep reciepts, I go for the shoebox approach but can usually find what im looking for. I'm sure the reciept for this transaction was pitched during a spring cleaning binge because the car was long gone and (I thought) there was absolutely no reason to keep it. Lesson learned, I'll be keeping paperwork around a lot longer from here on out. Honestly, I'm going to start paying for everything possible via credit and then paying the card off right away. At least then I'll have the CC record online and in paper form as well as the ability to dispute any potential bs charges.

There could be a very nice by-product of this.

If you run up the balances on your CC, many accounts offer all kinds of incentives (frequent flier miles, discounts, etc.).

I've got an uncle who is exceptionally good at working the system, and never pays interest. Free trips to Europe, discounted car rentals, free gas, whatever.

Nick_Comstock wrote: I think the real lesson to be learned here is to never ever buy a Ford

Found Outside, Rusted, and Dead

Fraudulent Old Receivables Denied