What's a good salary?`

+1 for depends where you are, but there are caveats to that too...as an extreme example, if you're living in Monaco then you're just asking for it and should definitely move. The question is if the same advice applies to NYC & SF.

Where I live I think a "good salary" would be $40k-$60k. That'll buy you what an American would consider a decent middle-class existence. It's also a stratospheric amount that few make around here.

Honestly I am pretty happy right now with where we are but if we had kids then I would want to be making more.

z31maniac wrote: And our other chief engineer, who has failed to manage one project to completion since he started here 3 years ago, has now been promoted and is being transferred to one of our companies in Vancouver. I can't even begin to explain what is going on here.

That right there is called the Peter Principal. There was a book about it in the 1970s or 80s.

bastomatic wrote: Probably most of the people you see living in those houses, and driving those cars cannot actually afford them.

That's a funny observation, because I live near an exclusive golf course community. The houses there are unbelievable! But if you check Zillow, half of them are for sale at any given moment.

I agree that this is all very relative to your own personal wants and definitely also to geographical considerations but I will gladly share my thoughts.

$75k is just a bit too low to be perfect... $125k makes life so much easier and brings a whole new set of options into focus. Everything over that has been a huge blessing for us but no matter what your income is, everyone has a budget to work too.

I often get caught in the mindset that another 20, 50 , or even 200k a year would make such a difference... but I quickly remind myself to be happy with the incredible, non-monetary, things that I have and to stop worrying over numbers on a spreadsheet!

JoeyM wrote: honestly, guys, haven't we had enough of this rubbish I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread I will not lock the stupid thread

3 pages so far, and some interesting insights from a bunch of people. So you can take your insults and shove them up your ass.

People keep relating this to cars. Is there a difference between someone who drives a brand new car a five year old car or a ten year old car in your view? That’s the thing. Five years ago I was the driver of a brand new Volvo, today I’m the driver of a five year old Volvo and in five year’s time I’ll be the driver of a ten year old Volvo. Am I a different person who is better or worse with my money as a result? I don’t think so.

Also people keep asking about income relative to neighbors or other locations. I’ve seen several websites linked to in this and the various ‘I’m moving from X to Y threads’ I find all of those slightly less than useless as the granularity just isn’t there. I live in Beverly Hills MI and even though I’m in a different country from Detroit most of those sites think I’m in Detroit. Looking at the Zip code level doesn’t work either. Beverly Hills shares a ZIP code with Bingham farms and Franklin MI, yet the three villages have very different socioeconomic make up. Franklin is one of the wealthiest community in MI with more than double the per capita or household income of Beverly Hills. IF you really want to get a good idea of income, per capita income, household income etc. I’d look at Wikipedia, it normally lists that info under Demographics based on the 2010 census data. Then if you really want to know you can compare where you live with the town next door or where your boss, co-worker, cleaning lady, vet, Doctor, kids school teacher live etc.

Outdated now, but everyone should go read "Millionaire Next Door". Good read on the subject.

FWIW, I'm living now on about 10k a year. That is not what I make, that is what I live on. If my salary were to double, I'd probably be living on about 15k a year. If my salary were to triple, I'd probably be living on about 18k a year. This is leaving out my car upgrades (I'd go from a Miata to a Miata and a 10 year old "beater", or a Corvette and an appliance), since that would be one time expenditure and lasting about 3-8 years. Also, it is easy for me because as a 23 year old Male in good health, I'm still helped out by Mom and Dad quite a bit.

pinchvalve wrote: 3 pages so far, and some interesting insights from a bunch of people. So you can take your insults and shove them up your ass.

Something crawl up yours?

In reply to mtn:

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but being helped out by your parents "quite a bit" means that you probably shouldn't be talking about how you can live on only $10k a year. I suppose people on foodstamps shouldn't count that as money they're living on, either?

tb wrote: I often get caught in the mindset that another 20, 50 , or even 200k a year would make such a difference... but I quickly remind myself to be happy with the incredible, non-monetary, things that I have and to stop worrying over numbers on a spreadsheet!

Now here's a good measurement. You're making enough when you only see more money as "numbers on a spreadsheet."

And I'll add that you're making too much when you start to see it as a video game score

rotard wrote: In reply to mtn: I don't want to sound like a jerk, but being helped out by your parents "quite a bit" means that you probably shouldn't be talking about how you can live on only $10k a year. I suppose people on foodstamps shouldn't count that as money they're living on, either?

Then add in 1k to 3k a year. "Quite a bit" might have been too much of a phrase, but it really is quite a bit to me. I can live on 11k to 13k a year, and that could still be a lot less--I eat out way too much (probably 1k-2k a year right there), I go to too many concerts, I have to have a garage...

My parents pay my cell phone bill, because it is much cheaper to have 5 people on one bill than 4 different bills (I do not have a smart phone). They pay my health insurance, because it is no different to pay for 3 kids than 1 kid, so long as we're all under 26. Seeing as my younger brother is still in school, my parents are going to get the family plan anyways. They also pay for my car insurance for the same reason--cheaper to have 6 cars on one policy than 6 cars on 4 policies. I'll stay on theirs until I am 25 and married. It is chump change to them, and I get to jump start my retirement and college savings for future kids.

My quick calculations work that out to 1k to 3k, depending on where ACA goes. They do not help me with any cash type stuff, other than maybe giving me $40 for gas when I come home for a weekend.

The interesting thing? My grandpa still does this with all of his kids. And I expect I'll do the same with mine. Pay it forward.

I can survive comfortably on 45k a year. When my wife was a flight attendant, we pulled in 37 and that was way too tight. I could afford things like cable, but even with the very affordable rent price, everything was budgeted and I was falling behind on some bills. 50k would allow a few more luxuries and helps me build the house I'm planning on.

GameboyRMH wrote:

tb wrote: I often get caught in the mindset that another 20, 50 , or even 200k a year would make such a difference... but I quickly remind myself to be happy with the incredible, non-monetary, things that I have and to stop worrying over numbers on a spreadsheet!

Now here's a good measurement. You're making enough when you only see more money as "numbers on a spreadsheet." ...

Very good insight into a casual statement I made. It is true that once you have "enough" you never really think about money at all. I used to not open my mail from fear of monthly bills I could barely handle, now I never even see my bills; someone else handles all of that!

One thing to add; back in the day I used to scrimp change for cat food and easily walk a few miles instead of splurging on the bus. These days, my cat still eats Friskies brand and I take still take public transportation. Sure, bonito flakes and taxis/uber are mixed in, but the point is that you cannot spend all of your money and still have it. Our only car is a $600 e30 that I fix with my own hands, if I paid someone else to do everything then I would still be worrying about covering my bills. Money can change your options, but if you change your lifestyle too much you will wind up still poor for pocket change by having better things instead of security.

For me, looking at a growing savings account is more rewarding than looking at a shiny toy. I would never want to wind up with more problems to accompany more money...

Datsun1500 wrote: If that is what only a few make, wouldn't that be considered much better than a good salary? Isn't it like saying, only a few make $1MM per year, so I guess that's good?

Actually...no. I wouldn't say that's a top 1% salary, more like top 10%. (Only counting people who work rather than own for a living...we have a lot of those here, and usually the stuff they own isn't here). In my experience people's opinions go by the standard of living a job can afford rather than where it falls on a numerical scale. A person isn't considered to have a "good job" unless they can afford a house that couldn't be called a shack, a car that couldn't be called a rattletrap etc.

tb wrote: One thing to add; back in the day I used to scrimp change for cat food and easily walk a few miles instead of splurging on the bus. These days, my cat still eats Friskies brand and I take still take public transportation.

I will never understand "gourmet" pet food. Any pet of mine will get leftover human food for treats at best. I know they'll happily eat any critter they ran across and fatten themselves on cheap kibble, they're not fooling me

GameboyRMH wrote:

tb wrote: One thing to add; back in the day I used to scrimp change for cat food and easily walk a few miles instead of splurging on the bus. These days, my cat still eats Friskies brand and I take still take public transportation.

I will never understand "gourmet" pet food. Any pet of mine will get leftover human food for treats at best. I know they'll happily eat any critter they ran across and fatten themselves on cheap kibble, they're not fooling me

I know what you mean... it can get crazy in the pet food aisles! I have tried it but he still prefers the regular stuff anyway. The major upgrade has been from dry kibble to wet food. Admittedly, he gets a huge amount of people food from almost every meal we eat.

Luckily, we do not have critters for him to worry about, he is a tough cat but not a "mouser" by nature...

mtn wrote:

rotard wrote: In reply to mtn: I don't want to sound like a jerk, but being helped out by your parents "quite a bit" means that you probably shouldn't be talking about how you can live on only $10k a year. I suppose people on foodstamps shouldn't count that as money they're living on, either?

Then add in 1k to 3k a year. "Quite a bit" might have been too much of a phrase, but it really is quite a bit to me. I can live on 11k to 13k a year, and that could still be a lot less--I eat out way too much (probably 1k-2k a year right there), I go to too many concerts, I have to have a garage... My parents pay my cell phone bill, because it is much cheaper to have 5 people on one bill than 4 different bills (I do not have a smart phone). They pay my health insurance, because it is no different to pay for 3 kids than 1 kid, so long as we're all under 26. Seeing as my younger brother is still in school, my parents are going to get the family plan anyways. They also pay for my car insurance for the same reason--cheaper to have 6 cars on one policy than 6 cars on 4 policies. I'll stay on theirs until I am 25 and married. It is chump change to them, and I get to jump start my retirement and college savings for future kids. My quick calculations work that out to 1k to 3k, depending on where ACA goes. They do not help me with any cash type stuff, other than maybe giving me $40 for gas when I come home for a weekend. The interesting thing? My grandpa still does this with all of his kids. And I expect I'll do the same with mine. Pay it forward.

I think your quick calculations are incorrect. Think more like $1.5-3k on your end for health insurance if your company is paying for most of it. Let's say that dental, vision, long term disability, and stuff are only like $500/year, together. My understanding is that you can only be on their insurance if you're still a student or unemployed.

A dumb phone line would probably cost $20/month or so if that's all you had. $240ish.

Car insurance can vary a lot by state. I'd guess somewhere between $700-1000/year for liability only with a decent driving record. That's what I was paying when I was 23 (7 years ago.) You wouldn't be paying the low rates your parents are.

Let's say that you only pay $500/month for rent and utilities (unlikely, but doable in some areas.) That's still $6000/year. That means that you have $11/day to pay for food, gas, racing, parking, beer, hookers, blow, other entertainment, and everything else you do.

Life gets expensive in a hurry.

rotard wrote: I think your quick calculations are incorrect. Think more like $1.5-3k on your end for health insurance if your company is paying for most of it. Let's say that dental, vision, long term disability, and stuff are only like $500/year, together. My understanding is that you can only be on their insurance if you're still a student or unemployed. A dumb phone line would probably cost $20/month or so if that's all you had. $240ish. Car insurance can vary a lot by state. I'd guess somewhere between $700-1000/year for liability only with a decent driving record. That's what I was paying when I was 23 (7 years ago.) You wouldn't be paying the low rates your parents are. Let's say that you only pay $500/month for rent and utilities (unlikely, but doable in some areas.) That's still $6000/year. That means that you have $11/day to pay for food, gas, racing, parking, beer, hookers, blow, other entertainment, and everything else you do. Life gets expensive in a hurry.

I'm already paying for dental, vision, and long term disability. As well as life insurance. And there is no student or employment qualifications, only "under age 26". I would only be getting catastrophic injury insurance. We'll call it 2k on that one.

Cell phones: Republic wireless. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/rw_plans.jpg. $300 a year.

If my parents made me pay for auto insurance, my chunk is $400 a year. When I turn 25, and assuming I'm married by that point (I am engaged), it will be about $600 a year. So we're at $2,900.

I am currently paying $550 a month for rent and utilities. When I move in with my fiance in about 6 months, that will go to about $475-$525, but spending about $50 more a month on gas, so we'll call it a wash.

So... No, I do not think that my 1k to 3k estimate was far off.

EDIT: And $11 a day for food, entertainment, etc? That is $77 a week. Not that hard. When it comes time for autocross, I eat PBJ for that week.

A good salary is when you can't instantly recall how much you make but knows that you can cover that 1985 Craiglist beater you covet and the mandatory LSx engine swap.

If you are waiting for the next paycheque then you either aren't managing your money properly or you don't make enough. Personally cars have been my problem since I was 25, never cared about what kind of house I live in or any other toy, I just have always wanted fun cars, I enjoy driving cars a lot more than the general population and I want to enjoy my drive every day of the year. The nice thing for me is I really enjoy the DSM cars so if I sold my current vehicles I could be happy for under $5,000.

slow wrote: A good salary is when you can't instantly recall how much you make but knows that you can cover that 1985 Craiglist beater you covet and the mandatory LSx engine swap.

Whats surprising about that is that you could probably make some very fun, very unique, very comfortable AND practical/efficient with this combination.

jere wrote: There is a movie on netflix called "Happy" 2011, that has a great perspective on this. But the magic number for the average US citizen is $75K, dollars to happy article

$75k per year is pretty good in Alberta to. And of course, based on the economies of scale, that is for a single individual. With that, you can afford a new house (double front attached garage), a new car, go racing and basically go do anything you want while saving PROPERLY for retirement.

One thing that is important to consider is when there are two incomes. Realistically, the money I spend on myself in a month can (for the most part) also cover somebody else with minimal cost increases due to said economies of scale. Food can be bought in bulk easier with another person (I mean significant other of course), you both can share space, etc etc. I could do more on $100k combined between two people than $75k with one. And I'm talking gross to be clear.

I don't think there are many places in North America where earning $75k per year wouldn't allow you to live a decent lifestyle as a single person. Taking care of a family changes everything though.

I’ve decided it's an impossible question with to many variables to ever come up with a good answer. I've just factored in inflation and the exchange rate and figures I now earn 3.56 times what I did in my first job out of collage 23 years ago. I didn't think I was poor then, I thought it was great, massive amounts of money at the time. Right now that figure inflation adjusted don’t forget) would leave me utterly depressed in every way. Life stages and expectations play into it as much as everything else

mine. mine is a good salary.

GameboyRMH wrote: I will never understand "gourmet" pet food. Any pet of mine will get leftover human food for treats at best. I know they'll happily eat any critter they ran across and fatten themselves on cheap kibble, they're not fooling me

On a related note, my vet friends say that without fail, it is the people who pay for gourmet pet food who cannot afford an emergency $1000 procedure on their animals, and who are declined for care credit.

More expensive food also makes no difference in pet quality of life for 99% of animals.