What's the appropriate response?

Ok, my daughter is in 1st grade. She is enrolled in a public charter school and doing very well. A few months ago we were told that a boy tickled her in her private area. This was unwelcomed by her and she told him stop and walked away. My wife and I weren’t happy at all and did bring this to the attention of the teacher. This was then relayed to other personnel like the Dean of Students. We left it alone at that point since the situation had been brought to the attention of the school and we know that kids are kids and we didn’t want to over-react over a one-time thing.
Fast forward till Tuesday. The report my wife and I heard is rather sketchy and unclear. What we do know is that this same boy had my daughter pinned against the wall, his hands on either side of her head. I don’t think he was touching her, I think it was more of an intimidation issue but I don’t know for sure. My wife has been talking to my daughter about it quite a bit. Well, the first time we assumed was a one-time thing, and now it’s not. My wife told her teacher that we do not want my little girl in the same class as this kid next year (the teachers set up the classes for the next year). She said she already planned on that. Then she went on to say that she’s having a hard time placing this kid because he has problems with other students. On top of all of that when my wife went to meet with the DOS the student was in his office due to another issue. So, I wrote a letter to the Dean of Students and we are meeting with him, the Principal and Assistant Principal tomorrow morning. My wife wants to walk in there demanding the expulsion of the kid. I don’t know if that’s appropriate. The Student Code of Conduct, as well as the Michigan Educational Department Code each allow sexual assault, contact or intimidation as grounds for expulsion. Part of me thinks, this kid is 7 years old. Is this too harsh? The other part of me says that Jeffry Dahmer was 7 once too. So, what would you do? Demand expulsion, suspension, flogging, a life sentence of driving GM front-wheel drive cars?

My opinion? Go in there (by yourself, this is not something you want getting emotional, and wives would tend to do that more often) and calmly explain that you need either: A: to talk to the dean (or whatever) in the same room as the other kids parent(s), B: proof that they have spoken to them, and some rough transcript (not "Oh we've called him and he assured us..." C: Get the other kids information so you can talk to the parents directly or D: Ask for the kid to be expelled.

Boys getting into fights is one thing, boys sexually intimidating little girls is another altogether.

Just thought of another one, depending on your daughter. If it was my kid (all boys) I would teach them how to punch. Seriously. If she can, tell her to get a good aim and break this kids nose once - it will go away after that.

I would, in fact, do both - start proceedings to demand expulsion (calmly, rationally, and above all, backed up by facts) AND teach your daughter how to defend herself.

BUT: also teach her that she needs to be good and sure something bad is happening before she responds with violence, because that response is going to weaken the case against the original offender, and even open her up to trouble from the school, even in self defense.

Start documenting the teacher comments about the troublemaker. Collect comments from other parents who have had actual trouble with the kid - NOT just "well I heard..." stuff, but real, definable incidents.

It's a charter school - the head should have the power to eject the kid, if a solid case can back it up.

Teach your daughter the proper use of a knee in that situation. Then demand the worst the school can do to the boy. You won't get it, but it's like selling a car. Ask more than you expect.

First of all, I'm sorry that you and your daughter have to deal with this.

I think you have the right to expect that your daughter will be in a safe environment while at school and not subjected to harassment or intimidation by another student. I further think that you should make it clear to the school that you expect them to immediately take whatever action is required to make sure that is the case.

I don't think you have the right to demand that they expel the other child, or dictate to them how they achieve a safe environment, as much as that would be my emotional reaction as well. Nor do I believe that you have a right to know exactly how they achieve this - in spite of the behavior of the other child, there are privacy issues at play here.

Encouraging your child to react with violence is a bad idea and could backfire. Encouraging her to SCREAM AT THE TOP OF HER LUNGS is perfectly acceptable however.

An isolated incident is one thing - a pattern of behavior is another altogether. The school needs to take prompt corrective action immediately.

Again, sorry for your little girl.

You and your wife should talk to the dean with no other parents present, that has the potential to get things heated quickly. Let the dean know that you are not going to tolerate this behavior and that this kid is to be reassigned and at the very least watched at all times during recess.

Get your daughter a whistle and tell her when and how to use it. Let her know that this boy's behavior is not OK and that she does not have to be anywhere near him if she doesn't want to be. When he picks on her, tell her to blow the whistle to get the teacher's attention. Do not stand by and assume that they are taking this as seriously as you and that they are "handling it".

Go old school and whip the Dad's ass

That is horrible. Since the Code of Conduct states that those are the rules, then I would go to the principal, school counselor and any other administrator with the situation. I would point out the part with expulsion and ask about your options. It sounds like this kid is a little monster and needs some guidance. (and/or a buttwhipping) I am a firm believer that kids like this are a product of their parents, so talking with the kids parents might just be a big waste of time. (I could be wrong) Right now bullying/intimidation/harassment are hot-buttons for all schools and by keeping a level head and talking to the right people you might just get the outcome that you want. Remember, it was YOUR kid that got assaulted, you are in the power position.

I think everyone is forgetting there are legal ramifications for the school if they fail to act appropriately. I'm not talking lawsuit, but rather Juvenile Authorities and registering a complaint. You can slice it any way you want, but that young man is commiting assault, sexual or otherwise. I would strongly point this out to the Principal and let him/her know that you will pursue things if they don't. Just from the little you've shared, this sounds like a sexual predator in the making and he may even be a victim of abuse. My personal experience has been that school authorities will choose not to act and hope things will just go away. Hold their feet to the fire and demand appropriate action.

I'll let others more experienced and older than I give you advice on the administration side of it, but as far as the incident side, I'll quote my very lady-like grandmother (who was also a nurse) talking to her daughter "If a man ever tries to touch you in a place he shouldn't, you kick him in the scrotum".

I'll presume that your daughter is smaller and can't take on this bully. Well, every male has a certain place that will bring them down.

I actually saw a similar incident to the one I was advocating while back. A girl in high school (maybe we were 14-15) was getting picked on constantly. She sorta deserved it, in my opinion, but... one day in the gym, we were all doing jumping jacks and she was being made fun of by this guy, so she jumping jacked right over to him and broke his nose. He was very surprised, and very bloody. He deserved it, and she didn't get picked on after that too much.

Ask said child if she wishes to know karate. If yes, enroll her immediately. Learning self defense is a good thing. I say this with no, absolutely no, joking implied.

I feel bad for your daughter and your family my true condolences on a really bad situation.

My concern is the offenders age. Children poke and prod at each other that is kind of the natural progression of things, honestly you handled it better than I would, but the recent turn of events makes me questions the boy's home.

Kids don't just come up with stuff like that, they learn it. Sexually aggressive behavior at this age isn't something a child should know. DHS might be the appropriate next step.

FlightService, that was my thought process. Kids are kids, they play doctor and are inquisitive. I don't appreciate the inquisitiveness being directed at MY little angle but I chaulked it up to that. But now that there's been another issue, and other issues with other students it's time to kill it NOW. I agree that this behavior really points to the parents and makes me wonder what this poor boy may have endured, but that doesn't give him cart blanche to turn his proclivities towards anyone else. I know I won't be given any proof of any disciplin, it's in the Mi Education Dept literature, kind of like HIPA. My daughter doesn't want to learn Karate but I have told her in the past about the seed bag. I will either re-educate her on that and tell her to scream her head off if that boy (or anyone else) does anything like that again.

Oh no, I wasn't letting the kid off the hook, his behavior needs to be modified. I was just looking for the root cause.

tuna55 wrote: Just thought of another one, depending on your daughter. If it was my kid (all boys) I would teach them how to punch. Seriously. If she can, tell her to get a good aim and break this kids nose once - it will go away after that.

My dad taught me this when I encountered my first bully. Nobody EVER forgets a broken nose. Dad was right. That kid never messed with me again.

Don't waste time with the school, they are in cover my ass, and ignore it and hope it goes away mode. Call the COPS, report the assault. DHS needs to be involved for the boys sake.

And it's my belief that everyone should know how to defend themselves, male and female.

I have real concerns about this situation. First, this may make your girl be afraid to go to school. Bad. Second, if this kid is doing this at this young an age, God only knows what he will be doing in a few more years. Wifey's sister is a TA at a school for these kids. She has her highly skilled hands full with them, some as young as this perp. The school needs to, MUST, get him into a program where he can get guidance and control. And be separated from the decent kids. Otherwise, a young monster will be created. I am certain that the problem originate in the home, and Mommy will loudly cry that her little Johnny is an angel, and the little girl is at fault. Also, teach your daughter to defend herself. A skill that will do her well the rest of her life. Way too many girls wind up as victims because they never learned to stand up for themselves.

I was always taught one very simple rule. If someone else starts something, you finish it. I would have to believe this holds true here.

I also believe that there HAS to be a larger issue here... and 4eyes is right, and you need to call the police. In cases like this, they're FORCED by law to investigate. Or put in an "anonymous" call to the school that the little boy is being abused, so they at least get involved somehow. I can guarantee he's not just deciding to be mean to your daughter, he's learning it somewhere.

Having recently been working at a private school, nothing scares administration more than threatening to pull your child (and Money) from the school.

Presuming the money situation for them isn't that different (they get funding based on butts in seats). You can put the Fear in the administration without outright demanding the child get expelled. Tell them that you can not have your daughter in the same class as that child next year, and will pull her if they do not resolve the situation. Chances are some other parents will make similar statements and the administration will take the path of least money lost.

Yeah I agree with the others there is no way a kid this young just happens to be acting like this. Something has happened to create this behavior. He needs help on MANY levels and needs to be removed from the other children. Also how many others might he be doing the same stuff to that have not come forward?

I was also taught don't start anything but if someone else does I sure as hell better finish it. In high school I witnessed a guy beating the E36 M3 out of a girl that was my friend. I put him through a wall. His family had to pay for the damage and he was expelled. I protect those I love and I am not around I make sure they can defend themselves. Teach your little girl more than just going for the grapes because honestly it will not drop all men.

FlightService wrote: Oh no, I wasn't letting the kid off the hook, his behavior needs to be modified. I was just looking for the root cause.

Oh, that was understood. I didn't think you were trivializing it or anything like that. I agree with you, I was just in a rush typing that out.

I like the whistle idea. Simple, effective and when worn around her neck, a visible deterrent to the offender. Even more, a firm and clear sign that you have warned the offender. If she does have to hit the boy it should be done after the whistle is blow so every one (including the teacher and offender) knew he was warned. This could be important in those wonderful "zero tolerance" situations where your daughter gets in more trouble for defending than the offender gets.

I also would formally state that you do not want this child placed in next years grade with your kid. I sounds like they have other versions of that request and it may aid in getting the kid removed from the school or at the least draw attention and scrutiny to the situation. That scrutiny could lead to a home life review and actually bring help to the kid.

jrw1621 wrote: I also would formally state that you do not want this child placed in next years grade with your kid.

And by formally, he would mean written evidence that can't be disappeared, probably with signatures with both parties (school and yourself/wife) so they can't say "that never happened".