When is it time to panic

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

The wife loves it, they have meals that she can eat even with her crazy dietary restrictions and it's close.

Applebee's is the only place near me that stays open till midnight, except for the fast food drive throughs. The parking lot is always full after 10 pm. 

When my wife was pregnant with our middlest kid, she got it in her head that she wanted to go to Applebee's one night.  She called my parents to invite them as well, and we all sat down for dinner there.  Mom & Dad, my sister, my wife, our 1 year old, and me.  We all ordered at the same time, as per usual, and I saw that they had one burger on the menu that could be cooked to order and I asked for that to be prepared rare.  After a short while, the food came out and since I know better, I didn't let the waitress leave until I could check my burger.  I could tell by looking at the outside that it was past rare, and cutting it in half demonstrated that it was pretty much charcoal.  I don't typically send things back, but in this case I was really craving a burger so back it went.  I told everyone else to go ahead and eat and not to wait for me.  So they did.  And I waited.

And waited.

They all finished before the waitress came back to the table.  When she did she looked at me and asked if I had gotten my burger yet.  I told her that I was still waiting and she disappeared again.  We sat and talked over the dirty dishes for a while and there was still no sign of the burger.  She came back a second time after a pretty long absense and was again incredulous that I still didn't have my burger (I would have that that she, being the waitress and all, would have had a better handle on where the food was, but whatever).  She announced that the manager would be right out.  Another five minutes went by before the manager came to the table and asked what the problem was.  I gave her the nickle tour of the story so far and she apologized and said she'd be right back with my burger.

We waited some more.

After a fairly extended wait she returned triumphant with my burger and slid it in front of me.  Again, I didn't let her leave until I pierced the patty with my knife.  Her enthusiasm departed her when she saw that I had yet another charcoal burger.  Taking the plate she promised that she would be right back but I glanced at the time and realized that it had been just over 120 minutes since we had sat down.  Our 1 year old was getting pretty bored of being strapped into a chair and the pregnant lady was ready to leave as well.  So I told her to just forget about it because I really just didn't have the time. 

At that point, she apologized again, reached in to her apron, pulled out a ten dollar bill, pressed it into my hand, and told me to get something to eat on the way home.

So, I don't go to Applebee's anymore.

But I might consider it if I got to choose some of the whiny neighbors from nextdoor to put on the liquidation list there....

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

Seriously, what is the appeal of Applebees/Chilis/TGIFridays? I've been to all of them at least once with groups. You honestly get better food at McDonalds and Wendys. 

Basically this whole train wreck is being prolonged by people that think the Baloney Parmesan at Olive Garden is good eatin' This is the worst version of the apocalypse we could have been stuck with. 

03Panther said:

In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :

I would say the mask is more like the guard on the grinder than the safety glasses. 

It's to keep the debris in, not keep the debris out.

I like that! Quite a good analogy.

The problem I see reading the analogy is that it's always the other person's repsonsibility to protect them from me, and that I do not have to do anything to protect myself.

IMHO, it's better to think if of it in both directions (since that is exactly what it is) which spreads the responsiblity to all of us at the same time.  

By me wearing the mask, I protect you from me AND I protect me from you.

bobzilla said:

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

The wife loves it, they have meals that she can eat even with her crazy dietary restrictions and it's close.

 

Curious what dietary restrictions she has? May be beneficial for my wife to know, as a Dietitian, so that it can be recommended to patients. 

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

If you are depending on others to protect you, then you stand a pretty good chance of getting sick. Because they aren't going to, even if they are wearing a mask. I know at least 25% of them can't tie their shoes in the morning so I'm counting on me. I'm willing to be personally responsible for keeping myself from getting sick and willing to accept the consequences of my actions if I screw it up. 

And with that, I'm out of this one again for a while. It can go back to being a echo chamber. 

Wally (Forum Supporter) said: Baloney Parmesan

I would like to buy your cookbook!

In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :

I can agree with that.  I'm trying to live life as normally as possible, but it's difficult when it doesn't feel like others want to do the same to protect themselves.  Along these lines, I'll give two recent examples of attempts at normality:

July 10 - when I travel home from NH, I like to stop at a bike park in NW Mass.  There are various restrictions and guidelines posted online.  All seem fairly straightforward.  I buy my ticket online (actually - recharge a lift card I already have from my visits from last year). Get there and get in line to ride.  It's a Friday, so it's not terribly busy, but those riders I do encounter are respectful. Nothing has to be said.  Wear mask in the lift line.  Wait for the next tray/chair even if under normal circumstances you would not. Pocket it when you get to the top and put your helmet on (full-face moto-style helmet).  

July 25 - I go to the bike park closest to me in PA.  Similar restrictions and guidelines. The difference is the other riders.  Minimal compliance. Nobody wants to wait or stay distanced or be inconvenienced in anyway whatsoever.  Soon I realize my head is simply not into DH riding and that is a recipe for getting hurt.  I pack up and go home.

I felt more comfortable in MA where other users were at least trying to be respectful than in PA where the general attitude was DGAF. Because of my job, I cannot get this and being at the park in PA was putting myself at risk. Looks like it'll be a lot of solo road rides for me this season. 

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

The wife loves it, they have meals that she can eat even with her crazy dietary restrictions and it's close.

 

Curious what dietary restrictions she has? May be beneficial for my wife to know, as a Dietitian, so that it can be recommended to patients. 

She has extreme case of diverticulitus. Any form of seed or excessive fiber cause severe pain, swelling and can lead to (another) perforation and death. Add into that she has never liked seafood of any sort, vegatables and fruits. 

barefootskater said:

mtn (Forum Supporter) 

Seriously, what is the appeal of Applebees/Chilis/TGIFridays? I've been to all of them at least once with groups. You honestly get better food at McDonalds and Wendys. 

mtn, I think we have differing views in a lot of places, but this is more than common ground. It is verging on theological. 

I actually think we likely have very few differing views, outside of Covid anyways. I've voted Libertarian almost every time it was an option. 

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

If you are depending on others to protect you, then you stand a pretty good chance of FAILING

Fixed that. I live my life not relying on others for my safety or comfort. That's on me. Not "you". Not the police. Not the gov't. Me. Period. End of story. 

For 5 months I have been in the business of educating people I come in contact with, and am responsible for.  It consumes about half of my job.
 

I have had 157 workers at my site since the start of this. Most stay on the site for a month or more.  We have not worn masks, and no one has gotten sick. We make the effort to maintain distance, avoid handshakes, wash hands regularly, insure  fresh air exchanges, pay attention to ventilation, monitor health. But MOSTLY, every one of us has learned a lot about transmission and overall lifestyle.  Every day.   I have always preached that the safest thing we can do is watch out for each other. COVID has not changed that. 
 

I made the choice to not require masks at my site. I didn't want to give anyone a false sense of security, or make it hard to breath while doing physically strenuous work. But we were very careful about all aspects. 
 

We did have 1 crew get very sick. They got it on another job. Their whole company caught it. I made sure they all had a clean bill of health before I would let them on the job. I rebuilt the schedule and did a work-around.  Since then they have been working alongside the rest of us.
 

I am not opposed to masks. I use them in public. But they were not necessary as part of a comprehensive plan for my job site. 
 

My company has a high profile in medical construction. I have assisted in some terrible hot spots and facilities gone bad.   Some of that work has been in full blown HazMat suits.  We have over 700 people working in a couple of the hottest spots in the country. No one has gotten sick. 
 

It's kinda shocking when I hear about outbreaks among people wearing masks. It makes me think either they did something wrong, or we've just been lucky.
 

It doesn't feel like luck. It feels like hard work.  

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

You may be right. 

I'm a rules guy, wasn't always though.

Been in the trades almost 40 years. Early 80's when I started working in industry, safety was an after thought. Some of the stunts we pulled make me shudder now. Along came real safety training and it only improved over the years. LOTO, confined space entry, etc as well as trade specific training. The phone would ring in the morning at the powerhouse and we'd look at each other and wonder who is going to safety training today. One standing funny was "nice place to work if they only let ya." But the rules paid off. 

I have no problem following COVID precautions, some may perceive as vague or argue all you want, still there are no guarantees, but that is the best we have at this time.  Minor inconvenience, just do it. 

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

Seriously, what is the appeal of Applebees/Chilis/TGIFridays? I've been to all of them at least once with groups. You honestly get better food at McDonalds and Wendys. 

Basically this whole train wreck is being prolonged by people that think the Baloney Parmesan at Olive Garden is good eatin' This is the worst version of the apocalypse we could have been stuck with. 

I love you.

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

Well said, Sir.

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

...And with that, I'm out of this one again for a while. It can go back to being a echo chamber. 

I am actually rather curious what "echo" you are referring to (someone else may need to make a guess on this).  From my perspective (which certainly may be off) with some minor exceptions, I think I can safely say NO ONE on here is saying any of these things:

- Masks are 100% effective

- Masks are 100% useless

- The government(s) have made all correct decisions / rules

- The government(s) have made all incorrect decisions / rules.

- COVID is essentially harmless

- COVID is universally deadly

- The information / data available on COVID is fully accurate

- The information / data available on COVID is entirely inaccurate 

In other words, I think most all here would disagree with all of the above.

As with many things, there is a range between the above opposing things and I am sure the people here (and in the country...) would land in different places on that line, but in reality, not as far apart as they may assume.

Sadly there is a tendency for people to assume the "other guy(s)" is a 0 or 100 on the scale, while simultaneously knowing they are somewhere in the continuum.

Yes, it would be nice if we absolutely knew the answers on this, but that is clearly not the case... so we are left with best guesses...

Shades of gray...

Got a E36 M3ty update from family in Florida today.  My sister ( 50 ) was exposed to a coworker at her vet clinic that was actively sick and later tested positive for COVID-19.  My sister and brother ( 53 ) are now showing symptoms, both of whom more then likely exposed our parents ( 77 and 81 ) at two different birthday parties last week.

So here's hoping for negative tests on my parents part, with their health issues it's not likely to be an easy road.  

I've already lost an uncle to this, if wearing a mask at work and in public can help a little, I'm ok with that.

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

If you are depending on others to protect you, then you stand a pretty good chance of getting sick. Because they aren't going to, even if they are wearing a mask. I know at least 25% of them can't tie their shoes in the morning so I'm counting on me. I'm willing to be personally responsible for keeping myself from getting sick and willing to accept the consequences of my actions if I screw it up. 

And with that, I'm out of this one again for a while. It can go back to being a echo chamber. 

That's my point.  You wear the mask to protect yourself.  The fact that is is protecting others from you is just a bonus.  The mask is like safety glasses and the blade protecter at the same time.

aircooled said:

I think I can safely say NO ONE on here is saying any of these things:

   Masks are 100% effective

- Masks are 100% useless

- The government(s) have made all correct decisions / rules

- The government(s) have made all incorrect decisions / rules.

- COVID is essentially harmless

- COVID is universally deadly

- The information / data available on COVID is fully accurate

- The information / data available on COVID is entirely inaccurate 

In other words, I think most all here would disagree with all of the above.

As with many things, there is a range between the above opposing things and I am sure the people here (and in the country...) would land in different places on that line, but in reality, not as far apart as they may assume.

Sadly there is a tendency for people to assume the "other guy(s)" is a 0 or 100 on the scale, while simultaneously knowing they are somewhere in the continuum.

Yes, it would be nice if we absolutely knew the answers on this, but that is clearly not the case... so we are left with best guesses...

Shades of gray...

Very correct! If we can all keep the antagonistic approach out of the posts, we all stand a chance of learning new things, and new perspectives.

I don't have the chance to check in here too often; its hit and miss. And I don't always have time to reply my thoughts. But I like trust sifting info here, to help find a shade of gray I can live with! I don't watch TV at all, and I don't live in a densely populated area, and my gray is different that some others.

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

It's kinda shocking when I hear about outbreaks among people wearing masks. It makes me think either they did something wrong, or we've just been lucky.
 

I would love to see contact tracing data from these.  I've read a few media stores (but not the actual studies behind them) suggesting that the majority of transmission is occurring at family get togethers, small gatherings, BBQs, birthday parties, family reunions, church, etc. where people are not truly in a safe environment but let their guard down.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

That's my point.  You wear the mask to protect yourself.  The fact that is is protecting others from you is just a bonus. 

Except that's not what all the people yelling are saying. At all.

In reply to 03Panther :

I have no idea who you are talking about in "All the people yelling" .

If they are yelling at you for not wearing a mask, when the mask is there to protect you, and you know that... ok.   

It's interesting that we rant about other people not being capable of keeping space, and not keeping the rest of us safe and sound, and then we don't do everything to protect ourselves effectively.  Seems like there's a lot of time ranting at the mirror.

This thread is 5 months old and it's time to panic "any day now" for those 5 months.