Datsun240ZGuy said:I was talking to a freelance photographer younger guy that told me he does just enough to get by. He moves his hand across the air in a horizontal fashion telling me that's it. No more.
Just enough to get by - some folks have no ambitions I guess.
Weed has that effect on a lot of people.
Duke said:I see a lot of younger folks on job sites.
For the last project I had under construction, the field super is about my age (59) but the project manager (who has plenty of hands-on experience) is in his 30s.
I see lots of tin knockers, plumbers, and electricians in their 30s, but not so many masons or other trades.
Around here, most of the skilled laborers, masons, and carpenters who are in their 20s are either Mexican or Mennonite. Occasionally both.
They weren't told all through junior high and high school that they had to get 4 years plus of college education in order to find a career, and actively discouraged from working in a trade if they were smarter than a 5th grader.
Indy - Guy said:Datsun240ZGuy said:I was talking to a freelance photographer younger guy that told me he does just enough to get by. He moves his hand across the air in a horizontal fashion telling me that's it. No more.
Just enough to get by - some folks have no ambitions I guess.
Weed has that effect on a lot of people.
Or maybe their ambitions are just different than yours.
EvanB said:Indy - Guy said:Datsun240ZGuy said:I was talking to a freelance photographer younger guy that told me he does just enough to get by. He moves his hand across the air in a horizontal fashion telling me that's it. No more.
Just enough to get by - some folks have no ambitions I guess.
Weed has that effect on a lot of people.
Or maybe their ambitions are just different than yours.
We had a long time, hourly laborer. Consistently missed a day a week. No notice, not the same day each week...just never made it in for 5 days per week.
Super I was working with (under) at the time asked him "what's the deal man, you're missing a day out of every check...every check."
Dude didn't miss a beat, "if I could live off 3 days a week, I'd be missing two."
SV reX said:In reply to Antihero :
The 62 part (but I also think it's not quite accurate)
I heard that from a biochem engineer who was laid off and working construction.
When I laid that statistic on a former co worker, he pointed out to me an interesting statistic in my field.
Of ASE certified technicians, 19% are between 25 and 50 years old.
I can guarantee you that the percentage over 50 is significantly higher than the percentage under 25.
EvanB said:Indy - Guy said:Datsun240ZGuy said:I was talking to a freelance photographer younger guy that told me he does just enough to get by. He moves his hand across the air in a horizontal fashion telling me that's it. No more.
Just enough to get by - some folks have no ambitions I guess.
Weed has that effect on a lot of people.
Or maybe their ambitions are just different than yours.
Live to work, or work to live?
Indy - Guy said: Weed has that effect on a lot of people.
Funny enough 3 of the biggest smokers I've know are very well paid. 2 are lawyers, one in mergers and acquisitions international contract law and the other with a tech company in patent law, the other's a high level accountant. Have been 6 figures and working from home for years. If you met them they're just regular dudes.
Datsun240ZGuy said:I was talking to a freelance photographer younger guy that told me he does just enough to get by. He moves his hand across the air in a horizontal fashion telling me that's it. No more.
Just enough to get by - some folks have no ambitions I guess.
His ambition is to live a life that isn't dominated by his job/career, and it sounds like he's able to do that. It's not quite what I want for myself but I can definitely respect it. I wonder what kinds of jobs he works and how he got started. This is the kind of thing I could see myself doing if I retire early, or even if I don't.
Indy - Guy said:Datsun240ZGuy said:I was talking to a freelance photographer younger guy that told me he does just enough to get by. He moves his hand across the air in a horizontal fashion telling me that's it. No more.
Just enough to get by - some folks have no ambitions I guess.
Weed has that effect on a lot of people.
My man, what?
This is badly wrong. I dont smoke, but some of the most ambitious people I know do.
Cheech and Chong are not the norm these days.
Datsun240ZGuy said:...Just enough to get by...
When you only live for today, time will eventually kick you in the nuts.
(unless you get really lucky, or have rich parents)
In reply to Mr_Asa :
Of the people I know who do partake, they do it to enhance their ability to be productive.
I am also all but certain that the restaurant industry requires it to function 
Pete. (l33t FS) said:EvanB said:Indy - Guy said:Datsun240ZGuy said:I was talking to a freelance photographer younger guy that told me he does just enough to get by. He moves his hand across the air in a horizontal fashion telling me that's it. No more.
Just enough to get by - some folks have no ambitions I guess.
Weed has that effect on a lot of people.
Or maybe their ambitions are just different than yours.
Live to work, or work to live?
Exactly.
Many in this thread are giving the vibe that a "lack of [implied career] ambition" is a bad thing. Some people want different things, and there is nothing wrong with that.
If employers want to attract these people, they need to offer the environment that attracts them. WFH, flexibility, large amounts of PTO or sabbatical options, or other things that offer work life balance are most likely things that will attract them.
Spearfishin said:EvanB said:Indy - Guy said:Datsun240ZGuy said:I was talking to a freelance photographer younger guy that told me he does just enough to get by. He moves his hand across the air in a horizontal fashion telling me that's it. No more.
Just enough to get by - some folks have no ambitions I guess.
Weed has that effect on a lot of people.
Or maybe their ambitions are just different than yours.
We had a long time, hourly laborer. Consistently missed a day a week. No notice, not the same day each week...just never made it in for 5 days per week.
Super I was working with (under) at the time asked him "what's the deal man, you're missing a day out of every check...every check."
Dude didn't miss a beat, "if I could live off 3 days a week, I'd be missing two."
Awesome
Pete. (l33t FS) said:I am also all but certain that the restaurant industry requires it to function
That or coke.
prodarwin said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:EvanB said:Indy - Guy said:Datsun240ZGuy said:I was talking to a freelance photographer younger guy that told me he does just enough to get by. He moves his hand across the air in a horizontal fashion telling me that's it. No more.
Just enough to get by - some folks have no ambitions I guess.
Weed has that effect on a lot of people.
Or maybe their ambitions are just different than yours.
Live to work, or work to live?
Exactly.
Many in this thread are giving the vibe that a "lack of [implied career] ambition" is a bad thing. Some people want different things, and there is nothing wrong with that.If employers want to attract these people, they need to offer the environment that attracts them. WFH, flexibility, large amounts of PTO or sabbatical options, or other things that offer work life balance are most likely things that will attract them.
No disrespect whatsoever for anyone who makes a different choice than me. I could probably use a bit more of that myself.
However, there ARE jobs that can't WFH. That's not disrespecting individuals, it's simply a matter of fact.
There are also people who "work to live" with no regard at all for the future, nor consideration for the people in their future who may have to carry them on their backs because they didn't plan ahead.
It's not all that simple.
aircooled said:Datsun240ZGuy said:...Just enough to get by...
When you only live for today, time will eventually kick you in the nuts.
(unless you get really lucky, or have rich parents)
You are correct, but "enough to get by" does not necessarily equate to "hand to mouth". He could be comfortable and secure, just not have any interest in owning a big expensive house, multiple cars, etc.
In reply to SV reX :
If you look at the state of things and realize that in all reality you are NEVER going to be able to retire, you start to see all stick and no carrot, and realign your priorities.
"If I'm going to have to work until I die anyway, I'll at least make the intirim as enjoyable as possible"
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
That's a mental state I can't relate to.
I spent a decade with $0 income. I still figured I could figure out a way to retire if I wanted to. I have.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
Reference your early post about age and health of those that had been in the trade longer. This is what I try to explain about working with the UAW as a young supervisor. Older guys had such beaten down bodies. There was a joke in one mfg plant about finding the millwrights by looking for who had less than 10 fingers because the millwrights local took any former machinist/metal workers that lost tooany finger to continue those jobs?!?!
I think modern construction safety and ergonomics have progressed massively but still tossing scaffolding up to the next level for a whole day eventually is no longer a healthy workout and is just doing damage.
Young folks are savvy to this. The UAW(may have been CAW) at one plant tried to implement a "20 and out" plan. New hires only working 20 years to be eligible for retirement at full medical and some large percentage of pay. IDK if even that is worth being "blue collar rich"
In reply to Advan046 :
There's a lot of unhealthy office workers too.
Im in significantly better shape than a very large percentage of people my age. And even people 20 years younger.
I don't think those are fair stereotypes. Anyone who fails to take care of themselves can be in poor health. Regardless of their profession.
And yes, there is a strong emphasis now on health, safety, and ergonomics that was not always there.
Overall, unfortunately I do think this is an unfortunate side effect of modern business. The negative impact of carrying large direct hire workforce with benefits leads to, what I perceive as, low stock prices. Thus leading to individual contractor models of construction sites that have little indication of stable future of work. Especially as big prime contractors look at them as just pure numbers that their subs have to deal with.
I did speak to a concrete placement foreman in his early 30s and he said basically that he does construction on the side due to benefits. Since there is just one BIG concrete company in the area that has long lead times some seasons, he can bid a price with stipulations of only working from midnight to 7am. A schedule that will allow him to do whatever his main job was. (Yes I did get up at 1am to observe a concrete placement)
In reply to SV reX :
I actually 100% agree with you that comparing last generations crushing manual labor environment to today is incorrect. But that is what I have heard from younger construction workers and my kids classmates. They look at their grandpa try to move and go, "NEVER picking up a hammer."
Easier for them to imagine that damage compared to risks of office work. Just saying I understand their perception.
SV reX said:WHERE IS EVERYBODY?
Yes, the work is hot. Yes it's dirty. Yes, there is physical exertion. But the pay is very good, job security is excellent, and management pretty much leaves us alone to do our thing.
I hear so much complaining about how hard it is to find a job, but I see zero people standing in line.
where is the line? if you have details, I'll share with family and friends in north Georgia.
SV reX said:No disrespect whatsoever for anyone who makes a different choice than me. I could probably use a bit more of that myself.
However, there ARE jobs that can't WFH. That's not disrespecting individuals, it's simply a matter of fact.
There are also people who "work to live" with no regard at all for the future, nor consideration for the people in their future who may have to carry them on their backs because they didn't plan ahead.
It's not all that simple.
Agreed. I don't think WFH is the end all solution, but just pointing out it might be one reason someone chooses a different career track vs. the trades even if the pay is less. And there are probably countless other reasons. Personally, 10 hour days would be a dealbreaker for me..
There are definitely extremes and I agree some people have no planning and seem to have given up. I dont fully understand that mentality myself, but it must suck.
I also agree, despite the issues mentioned above, there should still be an abundance of workers interested in a good paying job with benefits... but yeah, I don't know where they are.
johndej said:SV reX said:dclafleur said:Wayslow said:I teach electrical theory and industrial electronics to electrical apprentices at a community college a couple of evenings a week. There's been a major uptick in the interest in getting into the trades in the last few years. We still have a hard time finding drywallers, tapers, masons, concrete workers and any of the other so called mud trades. These are still good paying jobs that are either going wanting or being filled by temporary foreign workers.
It's easy to say "good paying jobs" what's the dollar amount? First Year, how much does one expect to earn? I find a lot of these jobs are long on promise, short on payout, especially given how physically demanding they are. I'll add that if it isn't enough to get by on and live well you're going to have a hard time recruiting people who can get an easy job that they can't get by on vs a hard job they can't get by on.
I answered this one earlier.
The average starting wage in construction in my state is 3X the average starting wage in the state.
Within this thread, I haven't seen you list an actual dollar per hour wage. I'm familiar with the Columbus/Phoenix city area so curious what that $ value is vs say the salary of a kid who graduates from Auburn.
Still poking at what's that actual dollar value, Google says average entry salary in GA is $17.83 an hour so just over $35.6k/year. Does construction start at $100k+
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