So I am about to rebuild a retaining wall in my back yard. Part of it is going to become one wall of my new garage. I was told by the planning people that I would need plans made for a retaining wall that was going to act as part of a structure. I was told to contact geotechnical engineering firms. However the ones I have contacted so far only do commercial work.
Is this even the right type of firm to be contacting? Who do I need to talk to?
You need a geotech. Try finding a small one or two man show. And if possible get a few to look as they will all have a different idea for a different price point. Here you need engineering for any wall more than four feet high. One option would be to call some builders or smaller excavating contractors and see who they use.
Usually the planning department wil direct you to someone that can help, id probably call them back and ask for recommendations. It also means they will be more likely to play nice with the engineer too
Are you planning on doing the work building the wall? If not, let the guy building it get the stamped plans. If you are DIYing it, then asking the local contractors sounds like a good bet. They should know a guy.
In reply to T.J. :
That makes sense so find the contractor first and have him get the plans made.
I am going to be filling a pool, putting in the retaining wall and replacing some fencing this spring then in the fall building the garage.
The thing that is a little confusing for me right now is I do not need a permit to build the retaining wall as it is under 4 foot tall but I will need the stamped plans for later when I build the garage since it will be part of the structure. I already have a permit to demo the in-ground pool and I have done the work to tear the pool out. I just need to fill it.
I think the idea of using the retaining wall as part of the shop is clever, however there is a corner of my brain that is not comfortable with the idea of a retaining wall forming part of the shop wall. Can you not put the shop right up against the retaining wall and void this hassle and expense?
The other option is to build the shop first and pour the footing so it can become the retaining wall . I think this has a better chance of being stable than the other way around.
Pete
Is it really much different than building a walk out basement? Seems pretty cut and dry if you build it like that.
Gonna be expensive, and probably doesn’t need to be.
Separate the 2, and make it easy.
Its probably not a Geotech you need. You need a residential structural engineer to design the foundation wall. The retaining wall is just an extension of it.
He may want to interact with a geotech to understand the soils.
SVreX said:Gonna be expensive, and probably doesn’t need to be.
Separate the 2, and make it easy.
Its probably not a Geotech you need. You need a residential structural engineer to design the foundation wall. The retaining wall is just an extension of it.
He may want to interact with a geotech to understand the soils.
That sounds like it maybe a good plan. There wouldn't be any problem with building a foundational wall and leaving it as is for a few months before I start building the garage?
I'm a licensed Geotech. If you want to build the foundation wall as a retaining wall first, it still needs to be designed as a retaining wall. The foundation wall would have the other 3 walls to assist in the support against the soil load. A retaining wall needs to be designed to stop the overturning or sliding that would be caused from the soil backfill.
I do agree that reaching out to the city engineer would be best to get a recommendation on an engineer but if you are using a contractor let them deal with it. A small geotech firm could handle this as well as a structural engineer.
Shoot me a PM if you want to chat more.
EDIT - Just realized you said the wall is less than 4 ft. Instead of building the retaining wall now, do you have room to just build a slope? Then just cut into it later to build your garage.
In reply to Kingkong :
With all due respect to your profession, I disagree.
The local municipality did not say he needs an engineer for the retaining wall. They said he needs one for the foundation wall. Why should he pay for engineering services that are not required?
Please note, I am not suggesting he cut corners or do a poor job building a retaining wall.
There are very rare conditions that a residential retaining wall that is only 4’ tall would need engineering. Unless there is water, or unstable soil, etc it’s probably something he could learn to do well from a YouTube video.
(Please don’t take offense)
None taken. I didn't realize it was less than 4 feet until after I posted. I feel like a lot of landscapers build walls like that all the time. But if it is only temporary until the garage goes in I wouldn't build anything and just try to slope it out. If he wants to turn it into a foundation wall though that is a whole other story.
And because pictures are cool. Here is a job I worked on years ago where we used a foundation wall as a temporary retaining wall. Where the wall retained soil behind it with no problem due to the rest of the building be in place, once we removed the other 3 walls we had to add the steel supports so it did not turn over. Granted we also excavated another 10 feet or so below the bottom of footing it is an extreme example here.
"begin with the end in mind" - if ultimately the wall will be a part of the garage wall and foundation you need to seriously consider building it in one piece from the beginning and hiring the Professional Engineer to do a design. Then you can get your building permit - a licensed contractor will want this on file to protect himself.
A licensed civil engineer (PE) that does home and small commercial project should be able to do what you want.
So I think you mean it would be one concrete pour for both the slab and the wall? All concrete, not a cinder block wall resting on the slab, which is a different situation.
Its not unusual for a state or city to require plans certified by a professional engineer when you have something built. You may need a complete package for the foundation, wall and garage structure anyway. Some areas do not require certification if you build the whole thing yourself but once you being in a contractor you do. If its all required and you move forward without the proper design drawings to get a building permit the local building inspector mafia could stroll in and give you a stop work order. These are enforceable through your local Law Enforcement. This happens where I live but not everywhere is so authoritarian.
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In reply to jharry3 :
Code enforcement officials ARE law enforcement.
In GA, they are armed. They show up at jobsites with pistols on their hips.
I’d happily take your form of authoritarianism!
Kingkong said:None taken. I didn't realize it was less than 4 feet until after I posted. I feel like a lot of landscapers build walls like that all the time. But if it is only temporary until the garage goes in I wouldn't build anything and just try to slope it out. If he wants to turn it into a foundation wall though that is a whole other story.
There is currently a garage about 2 feet from the current collapsing retaining.
Here is a thread I started on it. https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/93excivics-garage-rebuild-with-some-house-stuff-thrown-in/135020/page1/
jharry3 said:"begin with the end in mind" - if ultimately the wall will be a part of the garage wall and foundation you need to seriously consider building it in one piece from the beginning and hiring the Professional Engineer to do a design. Then you can get your building permit - a licensed contractor will want this on file to protect himself.
A licensed civil engineer (PE) that does home and small commercial project should be able to do what you want.
So I think you mean it would be one concrete pour for both the slab and the wall? All concrete, not a cinder block wall resting on the slab, which is a different situation.
Its not unusual for a state or city to require plans certified by a professional engineer when you have something built. You may need a complete package for the foundation, wall and garage structure anyway. Some areas do not require certification if you build the whole thing yourself but once you being in a contractor you do. If its all required and you move forward without the proper design drawings to get a building permit the local building inspector mafia could stroll in and give you a stop work order. These are enforceable through your local Law Enforcement. This happens where I live but not everywhere is so authoritarian.
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Would the slab need to be poured at the same time as the wall is built?
If that is the case, I may just wait until the fall to do the wall with the rest of the garage.
I was thinking of doing the wall now as I could use some of the dirt to fill the pool and also I am having a large amount of fencing redone. Since some fencing will need to be torn down to do the new retaining wall, I figured it would be cheaper to do that all at once.
If you do a retaining wall do you need to design the footings with the idea the weight of the building and snow will be on your 4 ft wall.....
And can water seep from the dirt behind your 4 foot wall into the garage ?
In reply to 93EXCivic :
No.
Of course it depends on the design. But this does not have to be designed as a monolithic pour (when the slab and wall are poured together).
What you WILL need is the building design. Commit to that part now. Design the building, and hire an engineer if required to design the foundation.
Then build your wall (in accordance with the building design)
One caveat... if you wait a long time before building the building, the codes could change. That would mean your design and engineering could need to be redone.
Most communities are operating on the 2012 IBC, but getting ready to adopt the 2015 IBC. I would ask the local building department, then ask your designer and engineer to design to the 2015 IBC (if necessary). There should be minimal changes that effect residential construction, but it will still make your engineered drawings irrelevant if they are designed to the wrong code.
SVreX said:In reply to 93EXCivic :
No.
Of course it depends on the design. But this does not have to be designed as a monolithic pour (when the slab and wall are poured together).
What you WILL need is the building design. Commit to that part now. Design the building, and hire an engineer if required to design the foundation.
Then build your wall (in accordance with the building design)
One caveat... if you wait a long time before building the building, the codes could change. That would mean your design and engineering could need to be redone.
Most communities are operating on the 2012 IBC, but getting ready to adopt the 2015 IBC. I would ask the local building department, then ask your designer and engineer to design to the 2015 IBC (if necessary). There should be minimal changes that effect residential construction, but it will still make your engineered drawings irrelevant if they are designed to the wrong code.
Thanks. Given all that, I am thinking it makes more sense to just get the pool filled now.
Then do the retaining wall and the garage all at once this fall since I still need to get plans made, figure out costs for the whole garage and make sure I can actually afford to do what I want to do.
In reply to 93EXCivic :
That’s a good plan.
Keep in mind, I’m giving generic answers. Your local community may not require plans drawn by an architect.
Since they’ve told you you need an engineer for the structure foundation wall, you need that. But you might be able to drop store-bought plans (read: inexpensive) on that engineered foundation wall.
Find a plan you like, and ask your local officials if it will be enough. If so, a residential structural engineer can design a foundation wall that will support the store-bought designs.
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