In reply to kazoospec:
That probably is accurate, but considering the number of russians that are part of these separatists, they most likely know how.
In reply to kazoospec:
That probably is accurate, but considering the number of russians that are part of these separatists, they most likely know how.
Ninja edit in an effort to play nice:
What a tragedy. I will watch the news on TV to see what happened and why.
In reply to T.J.:
Considering its you, I'm not surprised by this comment. And thats all that needs said here. 
In reply to yamaha:
Fair enough.
Fun day for news saw that the white house went on lock down then the next article said it was already over with that.
Told a guy at work about this stuff and he started singing this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY
I don't have the time to monitor this thread, so let's all play nicely.
Thanks.
In reply to David S. Wallens:
That's like an advertisement to children that you're leaving the house and your pron collection is in a known location.....
Dr. Hess wrote: the White House is on Lock Down
That's because Obomber is up here near my house, having a cheeseburger with Crazy Joe.
David S. Wallens wrote: I don't have the time to monitor this thread, so let's all play nicely. Thanks.
Don't worry man. We got this!
But we were told just this past Tuesday that the world has never been more tranquil...
The world is never going to be tranquil.
There are way to many a-holes, and a-holes have to do their thing.
The world has certainly been FAR worse then now though. To be fair, I would guess we are somewhere near the lower end at this point.
yamaha wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: Several of those rebels aren't even Ukrainian......a bunch are actually russian.
The way we get the news up here, none of the rebels are ethnic Ukranians- all Russians somewhere in the last couple of generations.
Westboro's head gonna esplode when they read the passenger manifest.
fasted58 wrote: Westboro's head gonna esplode when they read the passenger manifest.
Oooh, got a link?
Looks like a smoking gun:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-mh17-intercepted-audio/
Here's the Russian side:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/final-moments-flight-mh-17-russian-side-story said: The Final Moments Of Flight MH-17: The Russian Side Of The Story Tyler Durden's picture Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/18/2014 09:53 -0400 Yesterday, we laid out extensively what the official Ukrainian case was when it came to "proof" that Russian separatists had launched the Buk missile which allegedly took down flight MH-17; we also highlighted several glaring inconsistencies and questions that still remained open after the "incriminatory" YouTube clip release. So far, any international response has been muted to this hastily prepared evidence of Russian involvement, although the day is still young. So what about the Russian side? Below we present the key arguments made by Russia to suggest that not it, but Ukraine, was responsible for taking down the Malaysian Boeing. As reported earlier by RIA, the Russian Defense Ministry says it had intercepted the activity of a Ukrainian radar system on the day the Malaysian plane went down in eastern Ukraine, the ministry’s press service said Friday. "Throughout the day on July 17, Russian means of radar surveillance intercepted the operation of the Buk-M1 battery’s Kupol radar station located in the region of the populated area of Styla [30 kilometers south of Donetsk]," the press service said in a statement. “The technical capabilities of the Buk-M1 allow the exchange of data on air targets between batteries of one battalion. Thus, the launch of rockets could have also occurred from any of the batteries deployed in the populated area of Avdeevka [8 kilometers north of Donetsk] or from Gruzsko-Zoryanskoe [25 kilometers east of Donetsk],” the ministry said. Then we go to Itar-Tass which reported that civil flights in the air space of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions cannot be performed as the relevant communications infrastructure was destroyed there, a source from the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) told ITAR-TASS on Thursday. “Kiev operates all air traffic control services and it is unclear how this plane (the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 that crashed in eastern Ukraine near the Russian border Thursday night. — ITAR-TASS) could appear in the area,” he said. “During the combat actions in Donetsk’s airport the communication tower, a part of the united air control service was blown up,” he said adding that “planes cannot fly there.” On July 8, Ukraine’s State Aviation Service banned all flights over the Donetsk and Luhansk regions aiming to provide “adequate safety and security for all flights of civil aircraft in favor of state aviation. Meanwhile, Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council took a decision to close the airspace over the area of the so-called anti-terror operation to commercial flights three days ago, Rosaviatsia reported. This goes back to our post from last night in which we wondered just why and how did it happen that flight MH-17 diverted from its usual trajectory to fly over what was effectively restricted airspace. This also is the topic of a follow up piece by Bloomberg released overnight in which it was noted that "Malaysian Air Flight Took Route Avoided by Qantas, Asiana:" Qantas hasn’t used the route for a few months, said Andrew McGinnes, a spokesman for the Australian carrier, while Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific said it has been detouring for “quite some time.” Korean Air Lines Co. and Asiana Airlines Inc. said in statements they have been avoiding the area since March 3. One hopes that all lingering questions about the flight path, and where the instructions to change it came from, will be answered when the contents of the flight black box are released. And finally, as RT reported, the national governor of the Donetsk region, Pavel Gubarev, admitted that while the separatists indeed are in possession of one BUK missile unit, it is not operational, and even if it was, it would be unable to reach a height of over 30,000 feet without central radar guidance which the Donetsk region does not have, once again suggesting that a Surface to Air Missile, if indeed one was used, came from the Ukraine side. Surely it will be very easy for international monitors to validate this report. We will ignore circulating reports of two Ukraine jets that may have followed the Boeing as there is, at least for now, zero direct or circumstantial evidence validating this story aside from one Twitter account which has since been deleted. In brief the plot thickens, and all that matters now is whose propaganda, read media outlets, will be more persuasive although in reality even that is moot: in the echo chambers of ideology, most people already have their mind made up as to "who" the shooter was.
In reply to Dr. Hess:
If both black boxes go to russia.....whats the over under bet on they get altered to show what they want showed?
Could the black boxes show radar of an incoming missle and its direction?
In reply to PHeller:
Don't know, but keep in mind those missiles are moving well over supersonic speeds. 3x IIRC.
I dunno yamaha. I don't think there's a single government right now that isn't lying it's butt off on everything. There are so many examples, it is easier to just assume everything any government says is a lie. Remember the E.U. guy said "When it's serious, you have to lie." That's world government policy today.
PHeller wrote: Could the black boxes show radar of an incoming missle and its direction?
No. The black boxes will just show flight performance data of what the plane and it's systems were doing (there is a cockpit voice recorder also). The radar track data will have to come from somewhere else.
The only radar on the plane is a weather radar. It has no way of seeing an incoming missile (unless it's specially equipped like for example Air Force One).
Even in a military plane, they will generally sense the missile by listening to the tracking radar. The signal will change when the radar locks onto it (the "beam" the missile follows). With a semi-active radar homing missile (i.e. AMRAAM, SA-11, Phoenix) the missile will home in with it's own radar when it gets close, that of course can be sensed. There are also rear looking IR sensors that can see the heat coming up. The 777 will almost certainly have none of this.
That being said, all planes do have transponders (sends ID back to search radars), which will give an indication when a radar sweep is detected (flickering light), but these are VERY basic and there are a LOT of radars around (it probably flickered like mad when the missile went active though). With the advanced electronics on a 777 it probably would not be that difficult to give it some of the above capabilities, but unlikely.
One of the reasons these planes don't have any of this stuff is because there isn't anything they could do even if they knew it was coming unless it had counter measures. Fighter can out maneuver missiles sometimes. Flares can distract IR missiles, chaff can distract RH missiles, jammers can mess with RH missiles. But even those are not fully effective and being able to do quick maneuvers (not in a 777) will help a lot.
yamaha wrote: In reply to Dr. Hess: If both black boxes go to russia.....whats the over under bet on they get altered to show what they want showed?
That's a technical challenge that would be tough enough for the US government to do, never mind the Russians...and if they could, the only thing they could get away with altering is the voice recording, and there's not much they could credibly do with it.
Even if the pilots had time to say "OMG we've been hit by what is clearly a missile!" or "OMG we've been hit by what is clearly a meteorite!" or "OMG we're explosively decompressing somehow!" it would be very suspicious to say these things and not send anything over the radio.
US government officially accuses the rebels:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/
Check out the live view:
There are STILL planes flying over eastern Ukraine, but those look to be Russian... Russians don't give a E36 M3.
Great, and somewhat mesmerizing site to look at BTW.
This should be a fun site to keep an eye on for the next few days / weeks:
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