Which pistol?

Jensenman wrote: Legally owned firearms prevent far more situations from spiraling out of control than they ever cause.

Whats the stat though... Everything I've ever found has been low and quite frankly incomplete or poorly organized. The statistics are hard to gather.

Btw.. I do own a handgun... Holy crap and its a .44 .. I shot it a bit a while ago, but it just sits locked up under my old bed at my parents house.. No need for it.

MrMook wrote: I...my girlfriend and I are planning on taking a few gun safety courses, and heading to a local shooting range this summer. ... And that reason is: just in case. ...I'll probably never own a firearm, but if there is ever a situation when I need to use one, I don't want to be the guy that fumbles around and shoots himself.

Good attitude. When in doubt, learn more.

joey48442 wrote: I wonder about these guns with high capacity magazines. I would assume most times a gun is used after the first shot or two either the BG is dead, scared off, or shot you back. I can't imagine having another 15 shots would make a difference. I could be wrong, though. Joey

One case from CA comes to mind. A law enforcement officer (forget the jurisdiction, it was somewhere in the bay area) pulled over a parolee who didn't want to go back to prison. The perp drew a Taurus 9mm 92FS clone and fired 5 times at the officer before the gun jammed. As he did so, the officer returned fire, hitting the perp WITH ALL 12 SHOTS of .40. Only the last shot, which hit the perp in the head, stopped him.

Wish I could find more info, but that's the best I can do.

How often do semi-autos actually jam? I hear about tests that show A and B are reliable as dirt and only show X numbers of jams in Y as many shots. But then I seemingly hear a lot about them jamming. Doesn't seem to mesh.

Will wrote: One case from CA comes to mind. A law enforcement officer (forget the jurisdiction, it was somewhere in the bay area) pulled over a parolee who didn't want to go back to prison. The perp drew a Taurus 9mm 92FS clone and fired 5 times at the officer before the gun jammed. As he did so, the officer returned fire, hitting the perp WITH ALL 12 SHOTS of .40. Only the last shot, which hit the perp in the head, stopped him. Wish I could find more info, but that's the best I can do.

If that was a .45, he wouldn't have needed that many, PCP, or no PCP.

Matt, it depends on a lot of things, starting with the basic design of the gun. Revolvers jam too. Actually, in the tests done at the time, revolvers jammed more than the 1911. And when the revolver jams, it's pretty much game over. A jam in a semi-auto can be cleared quickly and you can keep playing. The 92's are supposed to be pretty good, but I don't own one so I can't directly comment, and the Taurus line is reputed to be higher quality than the Baretta or Smiths that they clone. I own a Taurus PT 58, which is a clone of a Baretta 92 shrunk down to .380. It fits a woman's hand very well. I had to send it back to Taurus (in Florida) because it had light primer hits, but it's been fine since. Lifetime warranty too, of course. The light hits were a problem with reloads which tend to use harder primers than the factory stuff. I have a 9mm called a Helwan that is a clone of a Baretta 52, I believe. Open slide top, 8 round single stack. Actually, Baretta sold all the tooling to the Egyptians and it's "the" 9mm in the middle east. I had to work on it a bit, but it has never, ever jammed, despite maybe 1-2K rounds of anything I could run through it. It's my primary carry gun because: 1. It has never jammed on me. 2. It was dirt cheap, like about a bill, so if it gets stolen, I'm not going to cry like if a Colt 1911 was stolen. 3. I think 9mm has better car door penetration than 45.

Which brings up: Ammo. Some (most) semi's are somewhat sensitive to ammo. For defense purposes, you want first and foremost, reliability. For ammo, that usually means hardball (full metal jacket). That feeds best and is what the guns are designed for. However, for "stopping power" you want wizz-bang stuff, hollow points, "hydra-shock," whatever. In a .45, you don't really have to worry about expanding fancy bullets, because the whole thing was designed to stop without them, starting out at almost a half inch. In 9, you have start thinking of fancy stuff, and in 380 you have to think of it a lot. Problem being that the fancy stuff is very expensive, so how much can you afford to practice with it to know that it feeds well in your gun?

Also, like a new engine, most semi's need to be broken in before they can achieve their full potential. Some are worse than others.

Three separate points to add

Jamming is very often due to maintenance and cleaning.

Another consideration for the 9mm is the rounds are affordable. meaning you can practice more often and become more familiar with your weapon, which is very, very important.

Training cannot be underrated.

You cannot have too much practice or training.

aussiesmg wrote: Three separate points to add Jamming is very often due to maintenance and cleaning. Another consideration for the 9mm is the rounds are affordable. meaning you can practice more often and become more familiar with your weapon, which is very, very important. Training cannot be underrated. You cannot have too much practice or training.

Quoted for emphasis.

Terminal ballistics don't mean dick when you miss.

Magazines have a lot to do with reliability, a good pistol with a cheap aftermarket magazine, is like a BMW M3 with cheap tires. I used to carry revolvers only, until I had a primer slip back from the case when fired. It locked the action up completely. Cylinder wouldn't turn, couldn't open the action, the cylinder wouldn't swing out. It took hours of tedious work to get it unstuck without damaging the gun. The worst jam I've had with an auto took maybe 2 seconds to clear. My wife and daughter like the Glock 19, mom likes her S&W .38 with 3" barrel and all steel construction. My wife used to have a Kahr K9 that she liked pretty good too.

Other than a bullet stuck in the barrel, how does a revolver jam? Other than being very, very dirty of course.

Joey

joey48442 wrote: Other than a bullet stuck in the barrel, how does a revolver jam? Other than being very, very dirty of course. Joey

Read my post above yours.

ignorant wrote:

Jensenman wrote: Legally owned firearms prevent far more situations from spiraling out of control than they ever cause.

Whats the stat though... Everything I've ever found has been low and quite frankly incomplete or poorly organized. The statistics are hard to gather. Btw.. I do own a handgun... Holy crap and its a .44 .. I shot it a bit a while ago, but it just sits locked up under my old bed at my parents house.. No need for it.

Google for some of John Lott's articles. He is an economist who researches the effects of gun laws on crime (or the lack therof) and how the lack of gun control usually results in less crime.

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/

joey48442 wrote: Other than a bullet stuck in the barrel, how does a revolver jam? Other than being very, very dirty of course. Joey

Also, it is possible to get the rim of the shell stuck in front of the extractor when loading. When that happens it's impossible to close the cylinder. I did that to a friend's .357 at the range. I'm not claiming a revolver is any less reliable than an auto, but anyone who tells you it's impossible for a revolver to jam doesn't know what he's talking about.

Oh, and when a bullet gets stuck in the barrel, that's not a jam. It's a squib, and if you don't notice and fire again it's a ka-boom.

I just picked one of these up yesterday in .45 Long Colt

In reply to 4eyes:

I must have been typing when you posted...

Joey

joey48442 wrote: Other than a bullet stuck in the barrel, how does a revolver jam? Other than being very, very dirty of course. Joey

it's possible (especially if the timing is off) for lead spatter to accumulate on the barrel at the forcing cone and reduce the barrel/cylinder clearance to zero. That doesn't necessarily result in a "jam" but it could easily "malfunction" where the cylinder won't turn easily. The ejector rod (if it's loose) can back out and not allow the cylinder to open or close correctly.

alex wrote: Luke, most states have some version of the Castle Doctrine in place, but it varies from state to state. Some states have a 'duty to retreat,' for instance. It's safe to assume, though, that if you draw or fire your weapon, even in legally justified self defense, you will face criminal and/or civil action. In either case, if your actions were indeed justified, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. But that's just another thing that has to be in the back of your mind as you prepare to draw: is it the only resolution left? For a variety of reasons, I'm of the mind that if I'm prepared to draw my firearm, I'm prepared to shoot. Never before. And that's not a consideration I take lightly. And that's why I almost never carry: I'm not sure that I'm 100% ready.

Our local sheriff the other day told us we have a duty to retreat. That's the first time I've ever heard that here.

Never fired a revolver but I've heard the jamming horror stories too.

My dad said, more than once, never pull a weapon unless you are 100% prepared to kill. I mentioned the two times he showed; one was in response to a .22 shot which took the rear window out of the Buick Riviera he was driving. I think that was provocation enough.

I have a bolt action Mauser which I like for the nasty clicks it makes but frankly it's not much use. Lately I have been thinking more about getting a CCW permit and buying a 9mm, mostly for travel protection in the hinterlands. So what's a decent reasonably priced 9mm?

See I have never in my entire life had a revolver have any sort of "jam" or misfire. Though you have to be smart about them as well, like on the older ones if in most cases you only load 5 rounds and have the hammer down on a empty chamber to prevent misfires caused by the hammer getting hit.

I have heard of the cylinder not aligning properly and you getting lead shavings that can cause issues though never had it done on one of my own guns.

Now with your typical semi auto I have had stove pipes happen though that was with a borrowed weapon. As others have mentioned a big portion of jams comes down to the care and cleaning of the weapon.

JM, pick a price point and we can make some suggestions for a 9 for you. $100? $2000? Somewhere in-between? The Kahr's are getting a very good reputation, if you don't mind supporting the Moonies. Personally, I have nothing against Moonies and suspect most of what the media says is BS, so I wouldn't mind helping their cottage industry. Otherwise, look into the others mentioned. XD, CZ, Glock, Taurus, Baretta, SIG, all have good stuff. The Ruger 9's have a pretty good reputation as well, and are cheap. Like I said, I like my Helwan, but they ain't fer everyone. Also BUTT YOUG-A-LEE. I don't carry it to look at.

I've had revolvers jam.

Jensenman wrote: I have a bolt action Mauser

lemme know if you ever want to sell it.

Jensenman wrote: So what's a decent reasonably priced 9mm?

There really aren't many "BAD" ones out there at a good gun shop.. Go to the place on Cross County, Handle a few and find out what is comfortable.. See if you can fire some before you buy. Guns are like cars. Some people like certain brands over others just cause they fit better with others.

Who are the moonies? I looked it up, and all I found was the unification church... They make guns?

Joey

Russians?

Some modern double-action revolvers can "jam" when the ejector rod unscrews, making the rod/star combination too long. A dab of low-strength Loctite solves the problem.

That said, the classic 4" .38 Special or .357 Magnum revolver is a good basic handgun for a new shooter. Ammunition is available from mild wadcutters to real rip-snorters.