"Why do we celebrate the 4th of July."

poopshovel wrote:

It's scary that these people can vote.

+1. I would whole-heartedly support some very simple requirements for voter registration beyond a picture ID and a pulse.

Umm... no. They used to have them. Basically served the same function as a Poll Tax.

As much as it's painful to realize how stupid much of the voting public is, the alternative to allowing them to vote is worse.

poopshovel wrote:

It's scary that these people can vote.

+1. I would whole-heartedly support some very simple requirements for voter registration beyond a picture ID and a pulse.

what's scarier is that i dont recall even needing to show ID the last few times i voted. i just stated my address and they asked my name...

Salanis wrote:

poopshovel wrote:

It's scary that these people can vote.

+1. I would whole-heartedly support some very simple requirements for voter registration beyond a picture ID and a pulse.

Umm... no. They used to have them.

I don't think so (I could be wrong). I've only heard of required literacy tests of the Jim Crow era. If you've ever seen one of those, you'd know that they were impossible to pass. I'm not making an argument one way or the other, but I'm not aware of any tests/requirements that were reasonable, or simple, that were ever in place.

In regard to federal voting priveleges/rights - there is no guaranteed "right to vote". Debate this as you wish........

However, half of the problem could be simply solved by repealing the 17th Amendment and reverting back to some semblance of original Constitutional intent.

mtn wrote:

Salanis wrote:

poopshovel wrote:

It's scary that these people can vote.

+1. I would whole-heartedly support some very simple requirements for voter registration beyond a picture ID and a pulse.

Umm... no. They used to have them.

I don't think so (I could be wrong). I've only heard of required literacy tests of the Jim Crow era. If you've ever seen one of those, you'd know that they were impossible to pass. I'm not making an argument one way or the other, but I'm not aware of any tests/requirements that were reasonable, or simple, that were ever in place.

Yeah. There weren't any reasonable or simple ones. But the point is, people have had polling tests before. Problem is, someone has to make the test.

Once you make it possible and legal to restrict the right to vote, that opens up a big can of worms.

As stupid as our system can be, there are worse alternatives. Besides, it's not like people have really gotten dumber over the centuries.

I'm definitely not in favor of making a test to restrict who can vote. When you start deciding who's desirible to vote, you start controlling the process.

hmmmmm look where uncontrolled process has gotten us....

wbjones wrote: hmmmmm look where uncontrolled process has gotten us....

[sarcasm] You're right, the South's system of restricted access to the vote was clearly the way to go. [/sarcasm]

We celebrate the 4th to remember how difficult it was to get here to this country, the effort, the sacrifice, the home/family that was left behind, whether quakers in the 17th century or south asians or eastern europeans last week, and to recommit our effort and allegiance to our new home, the one place on earth where all things are possible if you're willing to put in the effort.

We hold these truths to be self evident... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjjsDhbFhCA

The answer of course is to actually teach history, not the revised or watered down version of history taught today. To skip over certain aspects because it might offend someone is crazy, that's the reason we do need to teach everything the way it happened.

The man that owns the business I work for reviewed history books for possible inclusion into a local public school system, and I was amazed at what was and wasn't in there. Simply insane...

In reply to racerdave600: Souns like you're in Texas. Due to the large volume of books the texas school systems buys, the publishers of text books take their criticism "suggestions" very seriously.

A quick, unofficial, poll of a 10 & 7 year old in my immediate proximity indicates that they do, in fact, know the basic details of the Revolutionary war, key facts/figures and have a well developed sense of humor.

My 10yr old said "To get to the other side, dad" on the "Why did Washington cross the Delaware" question.

oldsaw wrote: In regard to federal voting priveleges/rights - there is no guaranteed "right to vote". Debate this as you wish........ However, half of the problem could be simply solved by repealing the 17th Amendment and reverting back to some semblance of original Constitutional intent.

Pretty sure the folks answering the questions on the Leno bit would argue with you...as would a lot of folks.

Obviously no one here is saying "We need to have a test to exclude black people from voting." Give me a berkeleying break. But I'd be totally fine with a test when you register to vote, and not a "Surprise" test or anything. Put together all the q's and a's for people to study in advance in hopes that they'd learn something.

Regarding the "It's opening a can of worms" thing, because "Somebody has to write the test," facts aren't biased. Obviously the questions shouldn't read "Explain why Abraham Lincoln was a self-contradicting, lying sonofabitch," but questions like "What are the three branches of Government" and "Who is your current state representitive" are not subjective.

I'd also be totally fine with having to show last year's tax returns in order to be able to vote (ducks & covers.)

poopshovel wrote: I'd also be totally fine with having to show last year's tax returns in order to be able to vote (ducks & covers.)

I think there is a valid argument against allowing people living off "government largesse" to vote in federal elections; conflict of interests and all that...........

If recusement applies in legal issues, it can apply in voting issues, too.

I thought this was a thread about making fun of people who didn't know elementary school history.

Flounder seeds:

If voting actually changed anything the government would abolish it. It is a well established means to keep the peasants feeling like they are in control. Religion keeps 'em orderly and pliable to patriotism and other leaps of blind faith. Voting lets them think they are in charge, media distracts them, fear & debt keep them enslaved and a constant state of war provides plenty of opportunity to raid the coffers. Its brilliant. They think they are free and everything is awesome. I hope they never catch on or we are berkeleyed.

triumph5 wrote: In reply to racerdave600: Souns like you're in Texas. Due to the large volume of books the texas school systems buys, the publishers of text books take their criticism "suggestions" very seriously.

Actually Huntsville, Alabama. Huge chunks of the Civil War were omitted, and there was hardly anything at all about slavery. There was also a very communist slant towards the early 20th century claiming it was the industrial revolution that has caused most of the problems in the US and that maybe those ideas need to be reconsidered. This was for 5th graders.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I thought this was a thread about making fun of people who didn't know elementary school history. Flounder seeds: If voting actually changed anything the government would abolish it. It is a well established means to keep the peasants feeling like they are in control. Religion keeps 'em orderly and pliable to patriotism and other leaps of blind faith. Voting lets them think they are in charge, media distracts them, fear & debt keep them enslaved and a constant state of war provides plenty of opportunity to raid the coffers. Its brilliant. They think they are free and everything is awesome. I hope they never catch on or we are berkeleyed.

FALE...........

NOT knowing history and not encouraged to appreciate its' influences are indicators of how we reached this point.

Just sayin!

oldsaw wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I thought this was a thread about making fun of people who didn't know elementary school history. Flounder seeds: If voting actually changed anything the government would abolish it. It is a well established means to keep the peasants feeling like they are in control. Religion keeps 'em orderly and pliable to patriotism and other leaps of blind faith. Voting lets them think they are in charge, media distracts them, fear & debt keep them enslaved and a constant state of war provides plenty of opportunity to raid the coffers. Its brilliant. They think they are free and everything is awesome. I hope they never catch on or we are berkeleyed.

FALE........... NOT knowing history and not encouraged to appreciate its' influences are indicators of how we reached this point. Just sayin!

Do not question my flounder inducing capability.

Re-writing history is one of the more subtle effects of a new-deal public education system. It only took two generations for Stalin to change the history of Russia but he was a brutal tyrant. We are not purging the old and burning books... just omitting, editing and waiting for those who recall how it all went down to die while teaching the young how to behave.

BRB, I have to go extend the amount of time that government entities can withhold how events really happened from the public now that we are living longer. Maybe I should do something about health care to cull the herd.

Re-writing history is one of the more subtle effects of a new-deal public education system. It only took two generations for Stalin to change the history of Russia but he was a brutal tyrant. We are not purging the old and burning books... just omitting, editing and waiting for those who recall how it all went down to die while teaching the young how to behave.

troof. As an adult interested/slowly immersing my self in American history - specifically as it relates to war and politics, I often find myself disgusted by the inaccurate and non-factual garbage I was taught in government schools.

JeepinMatt wrote: I'm definitely not in favor of making a test to restrict who can vote. When you start deciding who's desirible to vote, you start controlling the process.

The english as second language, strange smelling food, strange sounding name, strange looking clothes 'un-american' recent american citizens all passed a written test in order to become citizens with the privilege to vote.

Those that passed through Ellis Island and the like before 1924 had an easier time, they only needed to show no obvious diseases, nor be a convict, lunatic or idiot in order to gain their citizenship.

For the good of the country perhaps states (like Arizona?) should pass a law requiring suspected unworthy citizens must be able to pass a simple test on US History at the time of questioning (traffic stop, etc) or else they will lose their citizenship and be repatriated to wherever their people came from originally.

oldsaw wrote: I think there is a valid argument against allowing people living off "government largesse" to vote in federal elections; conflict of interests and all that...........

hope that wouldn't include Medicare and Social Security recipients .... as I'll be one in the not to distant future (if it's still there )

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: BRB, I have to go extend the amount of time that government entities can withhold how events really happened from the public now that we are living longer. Maybe I should do something about health care to cull the herd.

Donald Berwick, is that you?

wbjones wrote: hope that wouldn't include Medicare and Social Security recipients .... as I'll be one in the not to distant future (if it's still there )

Current recipients paid for their benefits.

Future participants (however) will be the victims of governmental sleight-of-hand, since Congress stole those funds years ago.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I thought this was a thread about making fun of people who didn't know elementary school history. Flounder seeds: If voting actually changed anything the government would abolish it. It is a well established means to keep the peasants feeling like they are in control. Religion keeps 'em orderly and pliable to patriotism and other leaps of blind faith. Voting lets them think they are in charge, media distracts them, fear & debt keep them enslaved and a constant state of war provides plenty of opportunity to raid the coffers. Its brilliant. They think they are free and everything is awesome. I hope they never catch on or we are berkeleyed.

My father was stationed in Hawaii during the Korean "Conflict". The Pearl Harbor attack was only 10 years prior, and the memories still fresh for many people who were there.

The Harbor was declared a monument, and tours were given while dad was there, describing the reckless carnage of the suprise attack by the Japanese.

A few years back, dad visited Hawaii again, this time as a tourist. He took the Harbor tour again, and was shocked how much the "history" had changed. The tour guide explained to his group that the event happened "because of unfortunate situations that forced Japan to guard it's homeland.", or words to that effect. It's important to note that most of the tourists were from Japan.

Dad was livid for a while, but as a student of history, soon realized that what he had seen first hand was the insidious re-writing of the facts.