I gave this a shot at work today and parked a handful of vehicles with PBS in neutral and the engine off. Only a prius and a Highlander auto engaged park, the rest would've happily rolled away.
I've also had people complain about having a dead battery with PBS after running into a store for 15 minutes (presumably the vehicle was left in ACC and not turned off), not sure why MFRS wouldn't auto cut the engine when the key has left the vehicle for an extended time.
I don't understand why park isn't the default instead of neutral, particularly if the car is stopped. If you want neutral then adding a step to select it seems more logical.
Backup cameras are good, but what's REALLY useful, IMHO, is the synthesized "overhead". The car has four cameras, one under each mirror, one front, one rear, software puts the images together and puts an image on the screen that looks like you've got a camera 20 feet above the car pointing straight down. It makes maneuvering it into a tight parking space a snap. I've only ever seen it on Audis, I dunno why everyone doesn't have this, it's awesome.
Push button start with a traditional key in the lock is a "feel like a race car" thing. Push button start with proximity "keys" is necessary, since you don't have a key lock any more. Proximity "keys" themselves fall about halfway down the scale between genuinely useful and gimmicks, IMHO.
Momentary contact shifters are an actively hazardous gimmick with no redeeming value.
In reply to oldopelguy:
That really is ONLY a good option if the vehicle is parked. For vehicles that are moving, you need to be able to pop it in to neutral in case of a "run away" engine or some other issue like that. At least that is what the DOT says. If you pop it into P the transmission likes to make a lot of noise to tell you how much it hates you. I've done it a few times at low speeds getting out of a car quickly at work... but never at speed, so I don't know what happens if you are going 70+ and throw it in park. I can only assume it is worse than when I have done it at less than 10mph.
DrBoost wrote: Mu issue with PBS, and yes, driven many, many cars with PBS, is thatin this case, it could have contributed to the death. In a PRNDL car if you put the trans in Neutral, you cannnot get your keys out of the ignition. In a PBS, if you have a confounding shifter, and it's in Neutral, when you hit the button the car shuts off and you walk away with it on Neutral.
If you have a car with manual transmission and a real key you can still shut it off and remove the key regardless of it being in gear or neutral, or having the parking brake set.
Maybe we need to go back to column shifters on everything.
My Chevy pickup that had a three speed on the column wouldn't let you remove the key unless it was in reverse.
My biggest problem with most options is they are usually the first thing to quit working.
When you drive old, high mileage cars like I usually do, I'd much rather not have the options to start with. Particularly when they are critical to the operation of the vehicle.
There is a reason old, high end BMWs and MBs are so cheap.
I look at options like these as the first things to crap out and are fiendishly expensive to fix.
Fine for those who buy new cars every few years, but I tend to fall in love with my vehicles and keep them ad long as I can.
My bitch is automatic locks. No. I didn't tell you to do that. I've wasted hours going back and forth to the passenger door only to find it locked, yet my hands were nowhere near the switch.
codrus wrote: Backup cameras are good, but what's REALLY useful, IMHO, is the synthesized "overhead". The car has four cameras, one under each mirror, one front, one rear, software puts the images together and puts an image on the screen that looks like you've got a camera 20 feet above the car pointing straight down. It makes maneuvering it into a tight parking space a snap. I've only ever seen it on Audis, I dunno why everyone doesn't have this, it's awesome.
YES! Nissan/Infiniti also have this called "aroundview" A friend was looking at a JX35, and I thought it was really cool / handy:
Toyman01 wrote: My biggest problem with most options is they are usually the first thing to quit working.
Appleseed wrote: I look at options like these as the first things to crap out and are fiendishly expensive to fix.
Back in January, girlfriend's car ('09 Nissan Altima) wouldn't start. 6 Berking degrees below zero. I tried jumping it, but no joy. Lights, radio, wipers, etc all worked fine, but not even a click from the starter. Then I noticed the little "key" light on the IP. Had it towed to the dealer.
It turned out to be the PBS module, to the tune of $1156.
I'm pretty sure most of the gimmicky new car tech is all about planned obsolescence, whether through expensive failure or just needing the "latest and greatest." The manufacturers have gotten too good for their own good in terms of quality and longevity and people are keeping their cars for longer than ever. Gotta come up with something to drive new car sales. Most of the average, non car people I know who go new car shopping maybe every 5-10 years aren't even aware that half these features exist, let alone buy a vehicle on their merit.
And I absolutely LOATHE being regulated into buying any of this extraneous E36 M3. At least give me the option to skip it.
On the topic of manuals, I don't care how good your flappy paddle, sequential, whiz bang doppelkupplingsgetreibe is, it will never give me that satisfaction of nailing a perfectly rev matched down shift. Maybe I'm just simple minded or something, but I really like the sensation of rowing a lever and stepping on things.
In reply to RealMiniParker:
Yea, berkeley that. My E36 wouldn't let me insert the key in the ignition one time. I fixed it in a Sheetz parking lot for free dollars by resetting a detent pin with a screwdriver.
So there are opportunities to impact all of these technologies. You know that, don't you?
alfadriver wrote: So there are opportunities to impact all of these technologies. You know that, don't you?
I'd like to think you're right, and I applaud your belief that it is possible (maybe it is). But it seems car companies are run by bean counters and folks that look at a car as a way to pack more tech into a small package, instead of a way to give a customer what they want.
I don't work for one of the big three, but I work for a very large international company. The folks up top, that make the decisions are sooooo disconnected from the customers that they unleash stuff that is crazy. Many times, as soon as something is released, we know it'll be a failure. They learn it a few dozen-million dollars later 
I don't know how much influence you really have on the finished product, but I'm glad that there are folks like you in the mix.
I hate all the tech in new vehicles.. they should have just stopped making them "better" around the year 2000 when they still had throttle cables, keys, radios that were plenty good but not integrated into the car and ABS that was easily shut off.
Funny, people keep claiming cars are designed with planned obsolescence yet the average age of cars keeps getting older even though people claimed we destroyed everything worth owning with cash for clunkers. They are also faster, safer, more accomplished in every way as well as being more economic on fuel and cleaner out the tail pipe. But the man is still trying to make us by new ones more often as they are designed to break!!!!!
P.S. pity he didn't have an older car that couldn't have rolled while running in neutral. Oh, wait. Well it might have been better as with all those sharp edges and non pedestrian friendly body bits he may have passed more quickly with less suffering.
I wonder how many of the posters complaining about technology has used it long enough to adapt to it?
Before having steering wheel controls for the radio, Bluetooth connection for phone and streaming, power windows/locks, or air conditioning I viewed them as unnecessary things that were only there to break. After having living with a car that had them for several years and I can see the benefit and would not want to give them up on a daily driver.
I smile when driving the 94 Dodge Ram, and don't mind ac not working, or lack of BT and steering wheel controls. But even though the v8 sound make me smile, the comfort and modern conveniences in the Elantra make it a better DD even if it is boring.
Modern nannies may be intrusive on the track, but for everyday use the benefit of having ESC and traction control there to help when life tries to distract you or the other drivers can be priceless. I like knowing that the woman putting on her make-up, or the guy texting, or the mom yelling at the kids have those nannies to help them in their lane and not spinning out of control and injuring me and my family.
While I want my kids to know how to handle slippery conditions and panic manuevers without needing the nannies, I still want them to have the nannies there in case they make a mistake.
In reply to jstand:
I'm totally old school and I approve this message.
It's not that we are complaining about new tech. Personally, I hate tech for the sake doing it. PBS doesn't solve a problem for the operator, neither does electronic shifters. In this case, they conspired to cause a fatal problem instead of solving anything. And any technician can tell you, this new tech is NOT trouble free and are VERY expensive to repair.
DrBoost wrote:alfadriver wrote: So there are opportunities to impact all of these technologies. You know that, don't you?I'd like to think you're right, and I applaud your belief that it is possible (maybe it is). But it seems car companies are run by bean counters and folks that look at a car as a way to pack more tech into a small package, instead of a way to give a customer what they want. I don't work for one of the big three, but I work for a very large international company. The folks up top, that make the decisions are sooooo disconnected from the customers that they unleash stuff that is crazy. Many times, as soon as something is released, we know it'll be a failure. They learn it a few dozen-million dollars later
If you believe that you can have no influence, you will most assuredly be correct.
On the other hand, people who think they can, there are positions to have influence. You are welcome to try.
I hope my comments didn't come off wrong. It did kinda sound negative. I just meant that, at least from my personal experience at a large automotive-ish company, it doesn't matter what you know, it's who you know.
But, I think in a company like say, F, one guy won't have much of an influence, but you get enough guys/girls like that peppered throughout the organization, it will make a difference.
I interviewed for a position in F a few years back. Vehicle coordinator or something. It went very well but I declined the second interview. There's no way I could drive from Fenton to Dearborn every day.
DrBoost wrote:alfadriver wrote: So there are opportunities to impact all of these technologies. You know that, don't you?I'd like to think you're right, and I applaud your belief that it is possible (maybe it is). But..
Alfa, you keep saying this, but the reason most of us aren't impacting these technologies is probably one of the following:
So, while a lot of us would like to impact this stuff, we choose a profession that offers us the best quality of life for ourselves & family.
There are a million things I would like to impact but I can only work on a few of them 
The default programming of push button starts indicates that manufacturers know the potential for leaving a car in gear or in neutral.
The old school ignition locks prevent you from removing the key before the car is in Park. This means the car will be in Park when you get back in. Most people start the car, then apply the brakes before shifting out of Park (and many cars require it).
However, this doesn't work in a PBS car. PBS cars require you to put your foot on the brake BEFORE starting the car. This is (obviously) a good idea, but it indicates that the manufacturers recognize the car may not be in Park. If it's not in Park, it could roll over someone (BTW, electric brakes on construction equipment surpass this standard- the brakes engage and the machine shifts into neutral automatically when the driver leaves the seat, regardless of what gear it is in).
Putting the foot on the brake before starting is completely unnatural to most drivers (and wreaks havoc on companies like rental car companies). Yes, I know it can be learned....
SVreX wrote: Putting the foot on the brake before starting is completely unnatural to most drivers (and wreaks havoc on companies like rental car companies). Yes, I know it can be learned....
It's natural if you regularly drive a stick shift. Get in car, step on brake, push in clutch, take car out of gear, start car.
In reply to jimbob_racing:
Umm... If we are discussing PRND21, we are probably not referring to manuals.
3.9% of new cars in the US have manuals. Therefore, it is possible that 90% or more of drivers don't drive a manual regularly, or even know how.
I stand by my statement.
"NO one wants all this technology in cars"
Yeah, except, ya know, like the people that ACTUALLY BUY new cars.
This myopic view is hysterical.
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