NordicSaab has his location listed as Melbourne, Florida.
If I ever end up relocating to Florida, I'm coming to GRM Off-Topic first. Seems like alot of us hire in that state.
Unlike here in Arizona where I'm sure there are only a handful of active members.
Time to switch tactics? Maybe take a page from big pharma and only hire hot chicks as sales reps. You can do your recruiting at the local Hooters.
This also works in the automotive world. I know one woman who got herself "supersized" upstairs as a business investment. It worked, she made bank afterwards. Not sure how that worked on her taxes though....
You're in a tough spot. It takes a very special sort of person to be excited about cold-calling. Those kinds of people aren't interested in salary, they're looking for commission.
My wife has to deal a LOT with salesmen dealing with highly technical stuff in the oil industry. It's rare to find one who is technically competent. Anyone who is can make more money elsewhere. What she ends up with on the user end is people who really really want to take you to lunch or call you, but when it comes to real competence they have to pass you to someone else. It's a significant problem in technical sales.
NordicSaab wrote: A couple weeks ago I had to let one of my sales guys go. not fun. I liked the guy, but for a number of reasons he couldn't stay. Fast forward a couple weeks and I have interviewed a couple of candidates, but all have had one thing or another that make them a less than stellar fit. In the mean time I am pulling double duty to keep company revenue on target while managing my own responsibilities. The problem I run into with most candidates is they have no idea the company does. The short answer is, "We provide Validation and Verification on complex mission critical systems to comply with DO178/254 guidelines". To most people, this means nothing and is just fluff... it kinda is... In normal words it basically means we review software(flight controls, de-icing systems, navigation systems, etc.) to ensure it behaves as expected every time. So, the challenge. How do I find someone of a non-engineering background who can sell, but can still wrap their head around the engineering concepts? I know everyone on here is either an engineer or might as well be... I'm willing to train, but I feel like the ability to understand engineering concepts is either in you or it isn't. Any ideas are appreciated.
Sadly, you need to go back in time to when companies actually trained people for a position. It was a long time ago and most people don't remember the way it was.
We have a similar situation where we need sales professional who are able to grasp electrical engineering and physiology so that they can speak to the clients and recognize opportunity. Takes two years to train a person. We prefer to hire them right out of University.
It seems like it's either going to be going out and finding a kid that's about to graduate from college with a programming degree, and train the snot out of them, or someone looking for a change of pace away from software or aircraft certification that likes dealing with people. I'm not sure which path I'd rather go down.
Your company works as an on-call cert shop to evaluate just software aspects of aircraft hardware, or do they do everything, or what?
I was doing some work in a room today where some people were talking about candidates they had interviewed for a job. Its an entry level job in a very niche field. I had to hold back my laughter as they were talking about the things that bothered them about the candidates. If you want to hire someone entry level (cheap) you cannot expect them to have a ton of experience.
The takeaway: find someone that you can get along with and that shows some potential for being able to learn the job. Everyone wants to hire someone that can just jump into the job and run. Good luck finding that perfect candidate.
NordicSaab wrote: Thanks for all the feedback. You are all hitting possible solutions in one way or another. We have many engineering here that I pull in as "Sales Engineers" when necessary. We have 3-4 that are really good at communicating. I'm to the point where I would hire from most any background providing they understand the product (At a high level) and are personable.
Honestly you are looking for either someone who understands engineers and has a personable character or someone, possibly ex-military, who has first hand experience with the systems you have described.
edizzle89 wrote:
"I went from working in a shop though college, got a 4 year auto tech degree, got a job at cummins....and now I am a service engineer with zero engineering schooling."
Funny: That is the exact trajectory I had in mind at Cummins years ago (minus the test cell operation) but it didn't work out as planned....
asoduk wrote: I was doing some work in a room today where some people were talking about candidates they had interviewed for a job. Its an entry level job in a very niche field. I had to hold back my laughter as they were talking about the things that bothered them about the candidates. If you want to hire someone entry level (cheap) you cannot expect them to have a ton of experience. The takeaway: find someone that you can get along with and that shows some potential for being able to learn the job. Everyone wants to hire someone that can just jump into the job and run. Good luck finding that perfect candidate.
So true. I looked at ads for Lube Techs where a ASE
Certification was needed.
Several years ago, the company I worked for was looking for welders. Some candidates still in welding school couldn't weld for crap. 90% of our work was TIG welding aluminum or stainless steel under .100" thick. The school was not teaching anything even remotely useful in the real world to their students. If I ever need to hire people, I fully expect to have to train them to do what I want. Thinking you can find someone to walk through the door and fit all of your hiring criteria these days seems highly unlikely.
slefain wrote: Time to switch tactics? Maybe take a page from big pharma and only hire hot chicks as sales reps. You can do your recruiting at the local Hooters. This also works in the automotive world. I know one woman who got herself "supersized" upstairs as a business investment. It worked, she made bank afterwards. Not sure how that worked on her taxes though....
It is a deductible expense for strippers, I imagine with a crafty accountant it would work for sales.
ncjay wrote: Several years ago, the company I worked for was looking for welders. Some candidates still in welding school couldn't weld for crap. 90% of our work was TIG welding aluminum or stainless steel under .100" thick. The school was not teaching anything even remotely useful in the real world to their students. If I ever need to hire people, I fully expect to have to train them to do what I want. Thinking you can find someone to walk through the door and fit all of your hiring criteria these days seems highly unlikely.
That's my point from the previous page.
"We want EVERY skill set possible, 10+ years of experience, and oh hey, here is an entry level salary."
Then we won't give you decent raises, employee moral stays low, and that's why my generation has to keep bouncing to move up.
z31maniac wrote:ncjay wrote: Several years ago, the company I worked for was looking for welders. Some candidates still in welding school couldn't weld for crap. 90% of our work was TIG welding aluminum or stainless steel under .100" thick. The school was not teaching anything even remotely useful in the real world to their students. If I ever need to hire people, I fully expect to have to train them to do what I want. Thinking you can find someone to walk through the door and fit all of your hiring criteria these days seems highly unlikely.That's my point from the previous page. "We want EVERY skill set possible, 10+ years of experience, and oh hey, here is an entry level salary." Then we won't give you decent raises, employee moral stays low, and that's why my generation has to keep bouncing to move up.
You do have a valid point. The current economic reality is that companies need to have wealthy clients and impoverished staff if the business model is going to work. AND the staff must have miracle-working credentials.
Threads like this make me wish we had a GRM version of Monster...
NOHOME wrote:z31maniac wrote:You do have a valid point. The current economic reality is that companies need to have wealthy clients and impoverished staff if the business model is going to work. AND the staff must have miracle-working credentials.ncjay wrote: Several years ago, the company I worked for was looking for welders. Some candidates still in welding school couldn't weld for crap. 90% of our work was TIG welding aluminum or stainless steel under .100" thick. The school was not teaching anything even remotely useful in the real world to their students. If I ever need to hire people, I fully expect to have to train them to do what I want. Thinking you can find someone to walk through the door and fit all of your hiring criteria these days seems highly unlikely.That's my point from the previous page. "We want EVERY skill set possible, 10+ years of experience, and oh hey, here is an entry level salary." Then we won't give you decent raises, employee moral stays low, and that's why my generation has to keep bouncing to move up.
"AND, because we're trying to reduce overhead and eliminate positions, we'll make sure you basically have enough work at all times to keep two people busy."
Sorry, its been a frustrating day at work 
stroker wrote: Threads like this make me wish we had a GRM version of Monster...
That's not a half bad idea. We could make it another topic alongside "off topic". "GRM jobs for GRMers".
Hey..don't feel to bad, Over on the Metalmeet forum this guy is looking for not one, but three Unicorns.. If I had to guess, the pay is going to be around $20/hour max.
Mechanic - looking for qualified race/speed shop engine builder capable of building race engines, transmissions, rears, etc. Must be able to service any car/project we have come in and not be afraid to get hands dirty. Not every day will be building a new motor, but will include lots of service work on any project like mechanical/electrical, brakes, fuel systems, diagnosis, tunning, etc. Ideally we are looking for a guy that also knows bikes and bike rebuilds as well such as harleys, sport bikes and cafes or can also fabricate things/weld if needed. Fabricator - must know both mig/tig processes. Ideally can do things like build custom headers, intakes, intake plumbing from scratch. Fabricate roll cages, custom mounting brackets, install replacement panels like floor pans/quarter panels, or Fabricate a hot rod pick up bed or chopper gas tank from scratch. Know every aspect of tear down and assembly of projects. Duties wont just include welding but overall building/fabrication and custimaztion of the car or bike. Know how to use English wheel, bead roller, benders, plasma cutter. Ideally knows how to use the lathe, CNC Bridgeport and plasma table to make custom parts. Body man - looking for a quality body guy that can Fabricate/weld replacement panels if needed. Able to properly align body panels, perfect gaps, make sure body is laser straight, do the mud work/sanding, primer/seal coat. Ideally a guy that can get our projects into paint and cleared/finished would be awesome. Ability to do high end custom HOK type paint would be perfect. Ability to do custom fiberglass anything from making a custom mold to reproduce parts to custom sub boxes or dash or interior part fabrication in fiberglass or carbon fiber. All candidates will be drug free, able to pass criminal and drug screening, have a valid d/l and reliable transportation. All candidates MUST have their own professional tools in their field.
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