Why the urge to be Shiny Happy People.

alfadriver said: 

Case one- does anyone really need to fish under her dock?  No.  They can easily keep off of her property.  The problem is that she takes it personally and then takes the nuclear option without just talking (I'm assuming that, as we don't really have a full story- just the outline).

Maybe nobody needs to fish under her dock, but from the article, it seems that the land isn't her property. That particular battle is part of a larger issue. Land, in general is being posted or developed, reducing the available hunting and fishing spots. Out in the western part of my state there is an ongoing and pretty ugly dispute over the right to float down a section of a river that happens to go through a very exclusive game club that wants to cut off all access on "their" section of the river. They're throwing money at the issue. The laws are pretty interesting, and who owns what and who can fish where is complicated, and varies between jurisdictions.

I've personally been confronted for "fishing on somebody's" property more than once while I was floating in a kayak on a public lake. Very few of these confrontations have started out with the land owner being civil- most likely because they try to chase off every single angler that comes through. So, every time it happens, it's easy for me to also be tempted to treat the confrontation as "yet another example of this crap" instead of a new opportunity to have a positive interaction. I always try for the positive interaction, though. 

 Posting here about it lets me get some vitriol out. 

I keep thinking that we as a society must have reached 'peak outrage' and that things must start settling down and heading back towards normal, but every time I think we hit the peak, I just end up seeing more outrage. I am still optimistic that we will hit it at some point.

It doesn't matter what the issue is, someone will be outraged by it, then someone else will be outraged that person A is outraged, and so on and so on.

bobzilla said:

Toyman01 said:

mad_machine said:

...there seems to be a certain meanness going about recently

This is a good way to put it. I don't think it's a top down thing. It looks more bottom up to me. 

 

I disagree. I mean, you have a city council of a very large and prominent city that decides to label over 5 million law abiding americans as domestic terrorists publicly. You have people running for the highest political office wanting to gut the Constitution publicly. And all of those are the "if you're not with us 100% then you're the enemy" mentality. 

I am so ready for my private island or mountain....... so tired of people in general at this point. 

Dude.  Please don't invoke the aquatic bottom feeder.

Is this what is referred to as "cancel culture"? I do think the news is covering stuff that shouldn't necessarily be covered (tweets, essentially). And that has caused people to try to go viral. There is a story today about how a toy monkey got lost at Buckingham Palace. Really?

Possibly Relevant Partially Completed Series of Wait But Why Articles

alfadriver said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to alfadriver :

I'm not sure where we are in our current society it CAN be fixed nor anyone WANTS to fix it. 

I think it can be fixed.  It's a matter of the sides wanting to fix it.  And I do mean both sides.

Not to make this political, but one of the worst things that ever happened was when George Bush said "NO NEW TAXES", which set him up for an epic thrashing when he compromised.  That era seems to be when compromise became a dirty word.

Remember when Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton had to have a secret private meeting just so they could compromise on the future location of the US capitol (and some other not-important stuff that made NYC the financial capitol of the world)? 

They both had such strong public stances and followings that neither could even admit publicly to being part of the decision after the fact (I believe James Madison became the "scapegoat").

And I think at the time, Jefferson and Hamilton were both on the same presidential cabinet!! 

Point is, compromise has a pretty strong history of being politically bad in our history. I think that is changing slowly with hearing the promises to compromise and work across the aisle in campaign speeches. Not that I really think it happens after election much, but at least the public is calling for it a round-about way.

In reply to Toyman01 : the world is getting crowded.  Nearly 8 billion people in the same space were less than 3 billion lived when I was born  

That crowding is causing all sorts of irrational conduct. Scientifically it’s called crowding psychosis. 

Some people it comes out in trying to force others to conform to the first person’s idea of conduct.

While others become extremely defensive.  Using overt methods to ensure their “rights” aren’t trespassed upon. Including the use of military style weapons.  The threat of which is supposed to ensure others respect their “ rights”

Most people accept occasional intrusions or offenses without legal recourse.  Sad results occur when people are pushed beyond their ability to accept or compromise 

Because it keeps people distracted from real problems and things going on. It seems that the "news" is trying to follow along in "reality" tv's footsteps with the manufactured drama for views and ratings. 

I really can't take this post anywhere else without going deep into flounder territory, so I'll leave it as "shiny happy people that affect a few people are a good distraction from real world events that actually affect everyone".

I haven't read the comments just yet but there is trouble brewing on my block.

Bunch of half/non-operational cars in the alley/yards/street with Va. regs.

Guy doesn't want to register in DC and pay all the taxes/fees whatever.  He's gotten exemptions in the past.  Repeatedly.

He's on disability.  He putters around.  Trying to get them to the point where someone will buy some.

But some of the neighbors who are absolutely not being inconvenienced are slashing tires and are gonna bring the man down on the issue by ratting out his non-resident status in Va.

Sucks for me I've got a rental right now and whilst I could get an exemption for the Va. tag it's a nuisance I'd rather not lose a days wages to fight.

I just don't get it.  We've got tons of parking.  One of the angry dudes has so many tickets/fines he can't even get a car.

Oh well.  I'll just go after his new apt. neighbor who hasn't bothered to register his Md cars and if he goes ahead with his unlicensed grow house in the neighbors garage I might have to mention that to someone in vice at MPD.

Bringing the man into the equation brings heat for all of us that we don't need in our quiet-ish little 'hood.  

bobzilla said:

In reply to aircooled :

I have known a few people I like to call "Evangelical Atheists". They're like the Radical Vegans where they dont believe in [insert preferred version of god here] and they will actively work so no one else does either. I've never understood the need to dictate what others think and feel, buth then again I've always been a "leave me alone,I leave you alone and we are all happy" type person. 

I don't think I'm in that category, but I can see how you get there from where I am.  So much of history (and the inherent conflict) has been driven by varying flavors of religious beliefs - which are by definition unknowable and unprovable - that those of us who don't share them just want to start screaming.  So much politico-religious action affects us, even though we have no part in it.

I am not saying that religion is the sole source of conflict, nor that atheists don't fight for other reasons, nor that religion is all bad.  But when we see such colossal conflict generated, based on such an unprovable premise, it makes some atheists want to intellectually beat religion out of the human race once and for all.

Since that is not the real topic of this thread, I'm not going to say anything further on it.  But that's where the urge comes from. It falls very much into the "we were minding our own business until you decided to be a dick about it" nature of the mob response to the 2 instigators in the original post.

Duke said:

It falls very much into the "we were minding our own business until you decided to be a dick about it" nature of the mob response to the 2 instigators in the original post.

This! 

Robbie said:

alfadriver said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to alfadriver :

I'm not sure where we are in our current society it CAN be fixed nor anyone WANTS to fix it. 

I think it can be fixed.  It's a matter of the sides wanting to fix it.  And I do mean both sides.

Not to make this political, but one of the worst things that ever happened was when George Bush said "NO NEW TAXES", which set him up for an epic thrashing when he compromised.  That era seems to be when compromise became a dirty word.

Remember when Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton had to have a secret private meeting just so they could compromise on the future location of the US capitol (and some other not-important stuff that made NYC the financial capitol of the world)? 

They both had such strong public stances and followings that neither could even admit publicly to being part of the decision after the fact (I believe James Madison became the "scapegoat").

And I think at the time, Jefferson and Hamilton were both on the same presidential cabinet!! 

Point is, compromise has a pretty strong history of being politically bad in our history. I think that is changing slowly with hearing the promises to compromise and work across the aisle in campaign speeches. Not that I really think it happens after election much, but at least the public is calling for it a round-about way.

If you haven't yet, go downtown and see Hamilton. Yes, it is expensive. It is also worth it. 

In the meantime, binge watch John Adams - the HBO miniseries. It is on Amazon Prime. Both are obviously entertainment-first, so there are minor innaccuracies, but are generally accurate historically.

BoxheadTim said:

Brett_Murphy said:

Also, in regards to tribes, you're overlooking that societal peer pressure and shaming have been used since before recorded history to show shiny happy people that they're being shiny happy people. 

While that's the case, I do get the impression that the mobs are getting louder and bigger. Maybe just louder to make themselves look bigger.

Technology has made it easier to get together a group of like-minded people to form a mob, too. It's easier to reach out to "friends" on Facebook than the neighbor next door. And less reaching out to the neighbor next door might also be part of the cause - we don't have to deal with people who don't share our beliefs or politics, and as such don't find ourselves realizing that, hey, most people from "the other side" aren't as different or as crazy as they seem.

Also, it would seem that repeating the rule "don't talk about politics or religion" too much has led society to forget how to have a civil discussion about politics or religion.

being nice is very hard..  very very hard.. being snarky and mean is easy.

In reply to aircooled :

Back in my days on FB, I was in a very good Buddhist group. They were quite accepting that because of my intestinal issues, i needed to eat some meat in order to survive. After all, even the Dali Lama eats some meat due to medical problems and there really is no prohibition against meat. Then the vegans moved in...

mtn said:

Robbie said:

 

Remember when Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton had to have a secret private meeting just so they could compromise on the future location of the US capitol (and some other not-important stuff that made NYC the financial capitol of the world)? 

They both had such strong public stances and followings that neither could even admit publicly to being part of the decision after the fact (I believe James Madison became the "scapegoat").

And I think at the time, Jefferson and Hamilton were both on the same presidential cabinet!! 

Point is, compromise has a pretty strong history of being politically bad in our history. I think that is changing slowly with hearing the promises to compromise and work across the aisle in campaign speeches. Not that I really think it happens after election much, but at least the public is calling for it a round-about way.

If you haven't yet, go downtown and see Hamilton. Yes, it is expensive. It is also worth it.

If anyone wants to see it on the cheap, I can help

While I don't think either person in each of the original actions was in the right, or even rational in how they responded to what they perceived as slights, the response was just teenaged bullying, plain and simple.     


We are becoming a nation of "mean girls" who have to make others miserable to feel good about ourselves.  


I have been both shiny and happy on more than one occasion, but i do my best to stay out of mobs.

Not a court case for sure; I’m turning left into a side street,  On coming traffic is stacking up at a red light that Is just behind me.

Rather than let me cross in front of them they go bumper to bumper and sit right next to me Staring straight ahead.  What the hell?  Where’s the gain?

shinny happy people....

914Driver said:

Not a court case for sure; I’m turning left into a side street,  On coming traffic is stacking up at a red light that Is just behind me.

Rather than let me cross in front of them they go bumper to bumper and sit right next to me Staring straight ahead.  What the hell?  Where’s the gain?

shinny happy people....

I don't think that's shiny happiness.  I think that's just garden variety self-absorption.  The average person (including me, sometimes) is totally unaware of anything more than 10 feet from their nose or 10 seconds into the future.

In reply to Duke :

That's exactly how I see it when it happens to me, as well.

People who fish get very territorial about their spots.     I hang out on fishing chat spots because I occasionally fish out of my kayak.   

Its crazy how 4 guys can go fishing in one motorboat and all figure out how to fish together but let one kayak fisherman come within 50 yards  of another one and the on line chat blows up to a war on how close is too close, how you should have a weight to clip onto your line to cast at them and hit them with it, how you should try to snag their line and cut it, discussions appear of arguments that nearly turned into fist fights or even gun fights.  

Some people post this stuff on Facebook while they are fishing and are posting pictures of the "offender" in the hope people will shun that person or to get approval of their dysfunctional attitude.

All over "you are in MY spot" because I got here first.    

Power and control.

Increasingly people are being brought up to think they're far more important than they are, and are using the tools now at their disposal (social media, the law) to tell you just how important and powerful they are. Many (a lot smarter than me) have suggested we are in an epidemic of narcissism, and we're now seeing people on both sides exercise their 'rights' to be both important and powerful. I don't buy the pseudo religious argument

IMHO, the same stupid behavior (or simply "lacking manners") takes different form in different areas of our society. People get worked up and interfere in stuff that doesn't actually affect them, somehow missing that they are limiting other peoples freedom and happiness by doing so.  

Religious people demonstrating outside an abortion clinic - You are free to follow your religion and you shouldn't be mocked for doing so. But it is YOUR religion, so why don't YOU refrain from abortions and let everyone else be? Telling random women that they will go to hell as they are about to do their lives hardest decision is just despicable.

Gay marriage - I think this is so sad. Why would anyone want to stop two adult, free and consenting citizens from getting married to each other? Again, you may apply your religion and/or your values to YOUR OWN marriage, not to other peoples marriage. As long as it doesn't effect you, just let people be.

My point is that this is the same behavior: It's OK to be a vegan, but it's not OK to take people to court just because they BBQ "too close" to your yard. It is ALSO not OK to harass some stranger you never met just because they earlier behaved badly and lost a court case.

With a risk of sounding a bit gloomy: I think this behavior is a bit of a toxin for society. It leads to people being defensive and assuming the worst from each other. Like the other day when I honked at a young woman on the mall parking lot. Her reaction was to flip me off and drive away... with her purse still on the roof of her car. If she had reacted with a more positive mindset, that could have been avoided. Of course, if the first 5 guys that honked at her that week hadn't behaved quite so juvenile and retarded, her mindset would perhaps been more positive.

In reply to 914Driver :

In BC that's a motor vehicle act offence - blocking an intersection. Often people come at things with no knowledge of what rules we have for interactions.

I came in here as I thought it was related to how this forum has become extra snippy and crusty lately. Lots of personal attacks and jabs at each other. I frequent this forum to avoid that kind of mentality from other more niche automotive related forums.

Anyways, it appears people are just wound up too tight these days....or are they? Is it that we just have way more access to peoples thoughts, opinions, and day to day lives than we ever had in the past via social media and a camcorder in everyones pocket? I believe it's the latter and that is also driving certain behaviors as well.

I'm all for minding my own business, letting people be. No need for me to spawn a gray hair over something trivial. 

With that being said, on my neighborhoods HOA FB page - there's a lady that constantly compains about a guy who fishes in one of the ponds in the neighborhood and that she "thinks" he's smoking illegal substances while doing so. 3/4 of the pond is surrounding by nature preserve and the remaining 1/4 is roadside. Not near anyones home and across the street is a large field - so not even within eyesight of someones house. However nosy nancy makes a huge gripe about it anytime Joe is out there fishing.... or the people in the neighborhood that feel the need or right to photograph your driveway and say your 20 year old BMW is driving down the property value of homes in the neighborhood.