I am not going to name the vendor.
It looks like I need to replace the HPFP on my MINI and ordered the pump from a vendor I have dealt with for a few years. The pump was evidently redesigned and now requires an adapter which they will gladly sell you.
Got the pump and adapter but it does not come with instructions, Called the vendor who said they only sell the stuff. In essence - Good luck rookie!
So my question is - On the MINI, the original wiring to the pump is two wires - one black and one white. The adapter has two wires - one solid white and one is white with a green tracer. I assume the white one with the green tracer would connect to the black wire - Thoughts?
I've tried Youtube and google searches but am coming up empty.
Aw, crud. I was going to ask whether you'd checked newtis.info for a wiring diagram, but it looks like BMW's demanded a cease and desist. They have their own behind a paywall; rates seem steep, but may be worthwhile when compared to cooking a HPFP. Info at newtis.info; I'm not giving BMW a link for that behavior.
(as an aside Right to Repair just got a boost from the FTC, via a report that basically says a lot of companies are behaving badly on this front, but I digress...)
Any idea who *makes* the adapter? Wondering who else to try for instructions...
Any clues on the wiring as it enters the pump?
I don't suppose one of the contacts on the pump ohms out to zero against the case, making it obviously a ground? (Would that be reliably accurate?)
Also, you might gives some details on the car in case anybody knows anything. I was thinking F56 because HPFP, but I guess that's true of earlier cars as well...
Thank you for the response. I have heard about the BWM not playing nice with their info. Have not tried ohm'ing it. Great suggestion. It is labeled as original MINI. The wires going to the pump are solid white and the other one is solid black.
In reply to 68TR250 :
Got pics? Is it a matter of the old pump having wires coming out to a plug and the new one having a connector on the pump body that the adapter connects to instead of built-in wires?
I get the picture with the old and new wire colors, but I'm less certain about where the connection points changed.
2013 Mini Cooper S. Original pump has a connector with two wires going into the connector on the pump and the other goes into a wire loom. New pump looks same on the outside but the connector is different on the new than what is on the old one. Old one has a black wire and a white wire. The new adaptor has a solid white wire and a white wire with green tracer going into the connector.
I'm guessing the wires going into the old pump are snipped off and the new wires / connector is wired into its' place. But, which is which. Still trying to figure it out.
Terminal pins are usually numbered in one way or another. Look closely inside the connectors near the terminal pins, or perhaps on the backs of the connectors where the wires enter. Compare old pump to new pump, and that will tell you how to wire the adapter. I couldn't find a good example on a 2-pin but here's one example of how it could be done:
And here's a 3-D viewer of a simple 2-pin connector with a big-ass "1" on the outside:
Viewer
That's a solenoid. I doubt it matters which way it's wired.
In reply to APEowner :
Thanks, I have heard that it may not matter. It also was suggested that the white on white and white with tracer goes to black.
I tried reaching out to BMW Group and was told they couldn't help on a Saturday but to try BMW NA, who are closed on Saturday.
Grab a fire ext boys, we are going to try something..
Thanks all.
For those just dying on to know what happened.
I went with white on white and white w/green on back and it did not burst into flames. The car started but is still not right...sigh... damn computer controlled cars. I'll keep my TR and get rid of this new computer controlled crap!
I am STILL getting an error code.
What's the code? Symptoms?
I love old stuff, but I love the new stuff, too.
Or is there already a thread for what got us to the HPFP replacement?
No thread on how we got to this point. Code is P0087 . This all started on FEB 17th. Time spent to decide what direction to take, waiting for the shop to check out the car, waiting for parts to arrive and for me to get the time to put them on.
Meaningless sidebar as to how we got here - I am a volunteer fireman and was going to a med call to set up a landing zone for life flight - (a person cut his hand off). I took a corner hard and fast and the car went into limp mode.
Code now and when we started this journey was and and still is P0087 - Low fuel rail pressure.
When I pushed it the car would go into limp mode and showed the POO87 code but I continued to drive it like that for a couple weeks. If I shut it off and drove carefully ( slow) it would run OK but if it was pushed it would go into limp mode again. I had a German car mechanic (BMW trained - independent shop) look at it and he said he 'thought' it was the HPFP. He quoted the repair at $2000. I researched and decided to try to fix it myself.
I replaced the fuel filter first because I saw that could be the possible problem and was the cheapest avenue to attempt to fix the problem. After replacing the filter the car would not start. Now what the berkley have I done?
I couldn't hear the LPFP so I bought one and replaced it. Well, actually two. The first one arrived broken. Ordered another one - wait for it to arrive and sent the broken one back. The fuel filter was not getting any fuel. Still no start.
I bought and replaced the HPFP drive because I made a mistake reading the description. Still no start. That was a berkleying waste of time and $$$.
Took it to another mechanic at our bus shop (non BMW) who found that when I replaced the filter I knocked a hose off inside the tank. It was replaced and the car ran albeit poorly - almost worse than before. He tested the fuel rail pressure and it was showing a HPFP fuel rail low pressure code - P0087. The same thing that the BMW mechanic suspected in the first place.
I ordered the HPFP and required adapter. It took 10 days to be delivered. After going through a PITA figuring how to wire up the adapter. (The vendor I bought it from was no help at all.) I replaced the HPFP with adapter. It is running better and will cruise at high speed (80 plus) but won't take any more than 1/2 throttle at a time without bogging down. It is still throwing code P0087 now.
So now I suspect the fuel pressure sensor and hell it may been that all along.
Not that I have anything specific I'm verifying, but just to tie back to earlier in the process, does it still go into limp mode when pushed?
In reply to Jesse Ransom :
Actually when pushed beyond 1/2 throttle, it does NOT go into limp mode. It just starts to bog down and feels like it is about to go limp so I let off.
Do you have an actual scanner that can read the data stream or just a code reader? It would be good to know what the commanded and actual fuel pressures are.
I only have a code reader.
Dumb question:. What happens if you pull the plug to the HPFP? Does it act differently?
Did you verify that you're getting voltage at the connector?
I'm not familiar with cars that use a HPFP, but it seems possible to me that they only really need the high pressure when on the top half of the throttle. You'd be surprised how little fuel it takes to keep an engine running poorly. But again, I've never played with a HPFP issue, all of my cars are happy with fuel pump pressure..
No idea if it acts differently. I do not want to risk doing more damage. It s next to impossible to get to the plug without removing parts.
I am glad it is running again. I would be ecstatic if it were running right! So I can unl...sell it to someone who will love it.
Given that there are actual driveability issues I don't think this is your issue, but it's a quick check: According to this, loose gas cap can trigger P0087. It's a long shot to think that this freaks the computer out badly enough to compromise driveability, but... when things are looking complicated and expensive, I try not to skip the cheap and easy even when I'm sure it's not the issue.
https://www.minimania.com/msgThread/125734/1/1/2012_Mini_Copper_S__Code_P0087_
This seems to suggests the fuel rail pressure sensor, which sounds more likely, related wiring, or (ugh) DME:
https://www.minimania.com/msgThread/123188/1/1/Combo_Engine_Codes_P0087_and_P15DF
Yes, that whole writeup references a combo of codes, but it sounds like P0087 by itself can tie to pressure sensor issues?
WonkoTheSane said:
I'm not familiar with cars that use a HPFP, but it seems possible to me that they only really need the high pressure when on the top half of the throttle. You'd be surprised how little fuel it takes to keep an engine running poorly. But again, I've never played with a HPFP issue, all of my cars are happy with fuel pump pressure..
Direct injected cars need the HPFP to run. I don't remember what the low range is off hand but they put out in the neighborhood of 2,500 psi at max. pressure.
68TR250. At this point I think you'd be money ahead to either have someone with a scanner troubleshoot it or spring for a scanner yourself. There are just too many things that could be wrong (including the new pump being defective) to solve this with the parts cannon.
In reply to APEowner :
Thanks for the thoughts. I looked into getting a scanner. The vendor I get my parts from suggests a Schwaben for $183 - down from $229. I had decided before all this happened I was going to let the car go so I was not going to get the scanner. I based my path on what the BMW mechanic suggested and what I was seeing on my cheapo code reader. I'm pretty far down the rabbit hole already $$ wise. I am still not quite at 50% what the mechanic quoted me. The mechanic at work has offered me his Snap On scanner and I've already asked him to bring it in this week.
In reply to Jesse Ransom :
Thanks Jesse, The fuel cap is on tight but I have not actually tested it for leaks. DANG would that suck if after all this it was the CAP!!!
